Not Sure Where This Is Going

[SoTorn]

Sorry that you are dealing with this. It hurts. You have a WW on your hands. This is a very difficult situation to desl with. If you want to try and stick around and make it work, follow DB to a T. Its time to focus on yourself. Your M is over and is just a piece of paper.

Use this gift of time to be the best version of yourself that you can be. Time to be superdad and stay that way. There is a huge chance you may end up D, and if you truly dont want that then stop pushing and pursuing. My WW acted the exact same way. Only she full embraced her NPD, started a PA with her boss whos 20 years older and showed zero remorse.

We just filed for D on Monday. I have accepted my M is completely over. However I have also accepted that I deserve so much better.

We all deserve a spouse that holds true to their vows. We all deserve love and happiness. Just know, that there are nillions of other women out there and that there is one who would treat you like an absolute king like you deserve.

Good luck. Keep posting. Get together a short term goal list for how you want to improve your life and make yourself happy. Stop making decisions based on how it affects your M and WW. Everything you do moving forward is for you and your child.

[ovrrnbw]

You're going to have to remove all pressure, stop all pursuit for a long time. I've been doing this over a year, and it's funny how my perspective has changed. My wife told my ILY the other day for the first time in over a year. I was yearning for that for a long time, but in time, with work and changing the way I think and behave, it didn't matter so much anymore. It's going to take your W longer than it should to feel the lack of pressure and it's on you to respect her choice to split and follow through on your end by not trying to change her mind. So, quit pursuing her. This may be hard to hear right now, but at the moment she doesn't want you.

Your W is wayward. Read the WW sitches. They are all very similar. R2C will probably be along with some awesome links that you'll want to read and reread. I'm guessing your big city counselor is advising your wife to throw her morality to the wind, be free, and hohoho it all around town as a way to find her happiness. Don't worry about it. You can't control it. But interview a counselor in the future before hiring and find a fit. I wouldn't spend hundreds of dollars just to find out this counselor is a no-go.

Quit monitoring her, you already know she is cheating. You don't need to know any more. You're going to alone in your marriage for a while, if not forever. You can't control it, so don't worry about it. That's why you go GAL. Make your life a great one.

My W was detaching from me a year ago, only to come running back a million times when I finally started detaching. Good luck, keep posting.

[Ready2Change]

she'll say she thinks we should move on separately.

Why give her all the power.

180 this. "This is not working FOR ME. "

[Niall11]

ST, I'm so sorry for all you have gone through and for the filing. I've read some of your story along with many others in recent weeks.

I will try -- harder -- to follow your sage advice. I think I had some nice guy syndrome for a long time. In the beginning I was successful professionally and more experienced in the world, she was young, unemployed, in an new place, language barrier, etc. I just got used to having to help her with certain things and it's been a hard habit to break.

I went from OK-dad to Superdad over this time. Everyone, including W, has noticed. I still have stuff I need to work on.

I stopped directly pursuing for the most part four months ago. Twice since I thought, wrongly, that she was giving me an opening and it turned out badly. But either her projection or my poor poker face has led her to say that she knows I'm not happy with her late-night activities. Honestly I've been encouraging her to have some fun with friends for years and, until starting her current job, she had little interest or energy. I'm of course not happy with late-night activities coming in the context of infidelity and checking out on our relationship.

Sept - Nov all I wanted to do was discuss the R. I was willing to face what I did to get us to this point. Turns out she's decided she's earned the right to do whatever she likes and has no interest in looking at how her own behavior is wrong. So these days I almost never text her or initiate conversations at all, let alone R talks. I don't ask her to do anything with me and I don't ask her where she's going, etc., although she still accuses of me of it.

[ovrrnbw]

Twice since I thought, wrongly, that she was giving me an opening and it turned out badly.

Temp checks, as well call them here. You solidified yourself as a backup plan. Your goal should be to never make that mistake again.

But either her projection or my poor poker face has led her to say that she knows I'm not happy with her late-night activities.

No, it's the fact that she is married and knows this is horribly wrong to be doing what she's doing.

I was willing to face what I did to get us to this point.

And she was willing to use that against you and blame you for what she is doing now. You've made your apologies, leave them where they are.

[Niall11]

Ovr, thanks for your insights. From my POV I have stopped pursuing but she does still feel the pressure despite that.

If I've had some NGS, she also always used to be overly tuned into people's feelings and I think, on some level, she feels some guilt over all this while telling herself she deserves to be selfish for a while. So she goes out, I ask no questions and say nothing, but she's still inventing a narrative where I'm smothering her. I'm not quite sure what to do about it, other than try to do better at not seeming upset about any of this. That's been a real struggle. Fake it until I make it, I guess.

I haven't been snooping although it's my natural inclination now. I never was suspicious before learning about OW1. When I saw OW2 had same profile pic as my W, I did click on it to see who the h*** she was. Not quite at the point where I completely don't care who she's out with.

You're actually wrong about the counselor. The counselor was very anti-divorce and found my W's attitude extremely troubling, esp. with a small child involved. First (and only) joint session she asked us point blank if we'd commit to a real effort and swear off other people while we worked on this. Wife said yes then, I learned the one time I looked in her phone, immediately afterward texted BFF to make fun of me and ask how to get OW1 alone.

My issue with the counselor is that she wasn't proactive at all and her view on whether we had a chance changed each week based on what she heard. I wanted the counselor to provide a little more stable perspective, the emotional rollercoaster was already operational without the counselor steering it.

R2C, it's true that it is not working for me. A couple of times I have thought about just leaving but have decided, for now, to stay for my daughter. There are complications that make it hard for me to leave without moving several hours away. Every now and then I reevaluate that choice. For me personally, distance would make it much easier.

[SteveLW]

Checking out of the marriage is not being present in the marriage even when together. That isn't detachment. Really detachment is getting to a place where her words and deeds no longer affect you emotionally. She could tell you she had a gangbang with 100 people the night before, and it would be like water off a duck's back to you.

I would consider asking her to leave the MBR. We recommend LBHs with a cheating W kick their W out of the MBR. I am guessing based on her behavior, she has cheated with this OW.

[Niall11]

Twice since I thought, wrongly, that she was giving me an opening and it turned out badly.

Temp checks, as well call them here. You solidified yourself as a backup plan. Your goal should be to never make that mistake again.

But either her projection or my poor poker face has led her to say that she knows I'm not happy with her late-night activities.

No, it's the fact that she is married and knows this is horribly wrong to be doing what she's doing.

I was willing to face what I did to get us to this point.

And she was willing to use that against you and blame you for what she is doing now. You've made your apologies, leave them where they are.

Agreed on all counts. No apologies anymore. I said it all back then.

Once during this whole saga she went to our friends next door (they're much more my friends, which is another story) and talked a lot about the whole thing. They'd heard a little from my end. My friend didn't want to discuss it but did say she's a lot more torn up than she looks and vacillates between feeling guilty and telling herself she suffered enough and has earned the right to behave this way. Once, two weeks ago, she flat out apologized to me for being such a b**** to me for so long. I didn't respond.

My ring is now off as well. No initiating time together, touch, sex, even conversation. I let her come to me. She does come home and tell me funny stuff on the internet or about her day at times. I listen and try to be pleasant but not overly enthusiastic.

[Niall11]

Checking out of the marriage is not being present in the marriage even when together. That isn't detachment. Really detachment is getting to a place where her words and deeds no longer affect you emotionally. She could tell you she had a gangbang with 100 people the night before, and it would be like water off a duck's back to you.

I'm definitely not detached yet, but I knew that. Her phone going off all day still sets me off, though I try not to show it. Probably not doing as effective a job of that as I'd like. I am getting more resigned to the idea that I can't control what she's going to do or make her stop any of this.

I understand the premise that, as a LBS, you have to make yourself stronger and more self-reliant, and that doing that might draw WS back to you or it may not, but it's important for you to do regardless. Getting to a point that you don't care if your wife has a gangbang with 100 seems like a really unhealthy place to be in a marriage. You just said you wouldn't able to stand your wife hooking up with even one other woman, so it really shows how different detachment and DB is from how people would feel in a healthier marriage. It's like she can't check back in until I've just about checked out myself.

I would consider asking her to leave the MBR. We recommend LBHs with a cheating W kick their W out of the MBR. I am guessing based on her behavior, she has cheated with this OW.

I have seen that advice. I too suspect she has done something with this OW but I have no evidence for it beyond the circumstantial. Once, totally unprompted by me, she said that she hadn't had sexual contact with anyone else. That could well be false, but without any proof I hesitate to proceed on the basis that it has happened/is happening. Not sure how to reconcile making that accusation, or even trying to find proof, with the idea of not obsessing over her and what she's doing.

Our place is small, we don't have an extra bedroom, but that's surmountable.

[SoTorn]

Read up on temperature checks. Those are not openings. Thats your WW checking if you are still plan B. If you react to every temp check you will just hurt yourself badly. My WW was temp checking as early as two weeks ago. Crying and saying shes sorry, telling me I dont have to move out and we can live together after D.

I didnt react. You want to see consistent actions over a very long period of time that show your WW is invested in you, has addressed her underlying issues and is ready to reconcile. Words are just words. They mean nothing without action. Same goes for trying to verbally convince yiur WW shes wrong and that you have changed. Its just words and lursuit so they will pull away that much faster.

You got this. No matter what happens, as long as you take care of yourself, you will be fine, with or without your WW. I am looking forward to my new life where I am in full control and where I can do whatever I want to make myself happy.