Yes - I have been working on my boundaries. He has been terribly verbally abusive to me - though not for a while now. In the early days of our separation I would ring him, upset, and he would shout at me and ridicule me, and I'd hang up, then ring him back, and it was bloody awful. Really awful. Now I don't call him for comfort when I am upset (and I am not that upset very often anyway) and on the rare occasion when he has been blaming or sarcastic or belittling, I've ended the conversation. I haven't yet had a conversation with him about his changes - I haven't said, 'if you want to work on this M then I need you to know there will be no more verbal abuse' - but I have lived the boundary rather than explaining it. It's easier to do as I don't see him that much. I am nowhere near ready to see him more than I do, nor to have that conversation with him.
There was one incident of him being violent towards me - about a year ago now. Never before nor since. I called the police at the time. He wasn't charged. I did try to talk about it with him in therapy later that summer, and his general response was that his violence was my fault because I'd made him angry. He seems a little less quick to anger this month than he has been previously, but I don't think I will feel safe living with him ever again until and unless he's willing to take total responsibility for his violent choice and let me know what changes he has made so it will never happen again. I don't know how to ask for that, and I don't know when the right time to ask for that would be.
At the moment I am just working on being cordial and having boundaries and working on my own changes. He's not putting on offer what I want for an R so I guess we are not in piecing.
The last time was the day before he moved out. He was drunk and said some mean and terrible things. I left the house with the children and stayed with a friend for two days. When I came back he was gone, and I immediately changed the locks. That was about three months ago. When he's been in the house with the kids I've asked him not to drink alcohol (he isn't an alcoholic, but he is a mean drunk) and he never has.
In the first couple of weeks after he moved out when I was contacting him a lot - he was hard and harsh and sarcastic and belittling towards me and often very cruel, but he hasn't been like that since then. And I suppose I was provoking him - phoning him often late at night, crying a lot, blaming him, etc etc. I don't do that at all any more.
We have had cross words since then - most recently a couple of weeks ago when I booked the week away - but I wouldn't say that was him being abusive, just that he was angry and assuming a lot about my motivations and I didn't like it and found it very difficult to deal with and became very upset afterwards.
I am not 100% certain he has ended his verbal abuse because he knows it is unacceptable, or because I've just stopped contacting him or raising subjects that bother him. When we had the family therapy session last week (on my last thread) I didn't like how he was communicating, but at the same time he wasn't mean or abusive and I do think he was doing his best. And he did come back afterwards and was much more constructive.
What I am afraid of is that he can't cope with the normal stresses of married life, including disagreements and stresses and normal tired moods and misunderstandings, without resorting to behaviour that is now totally unacceptable to me. I don't want to 'test' him - and I can see that he is being warmer with me, and more conciliatory, and there are small changes being made. But I am terrified of getting closer, letting him back home, then the first time we have a bad day being subject to that type of behaviour again and not knowing how to get out of it. I was so so so miserable and I felt so trapped and part of my lack of trust is, I think, very reasonable - he needs to take responsibility for that behaviour and work on his own changes, not rely on me or the children not provoking him.
Sorry it's taken a while to respond. Life with kids
Verbal abuse can be more subtle than physical abuse. It is not always about name calling, it is not stamping their feet and beating their chest or yelling "YOU STUPID [censored]". It can be so much more subtle.
My H has never called me names. He knows better. He has never hit me. He knows I would not and would never have stood for that. Instead, he would say things like "YOU'RE being ridiculous", "YOU spent too much money on ... ", "WE are going to be late because YOU [did X, said Y]", "This [sofa, fridge, photo frame] YOU bought looks cheap", "YOU let the girls watch TOO MUCH TV".
Power, control and intimidation.
Watch for the signs. It is early days, and the stress of what is going on will make the need for control stronger. Don't test him, but tread carefully and just watch. If he is serious about doing the work, then you will see the changes. His behavior needs to be consistent over a long period of time.
The last time my H and I had an R conversation was back in October (after I saw him out on a date). There was no yelling. He was right to start dating (he had moved out for seven months) but he also should have been transparent about it. For the first time he was almost apologetic. Guilt maybe. I don't know. During this conversation I said to him that even if he wanted to come home I would say no because he hadn't finished his journey. And I meant it. I love my H but I will not take him back until he has worked through his [censored].
Hi FS - this is good advice, thank you. I have no idea whether H is working on his own issues or not. Whether he's so focussed on his work he doesn't have time or whether it is bubbling away in the background as he works and spends time alone. I don't think he's in IC and I'd be gobsmacked if it was, but there are other ways to work on issues, I know. I guess my feeling is that I need to respect his boundaries, not ask him intrusive questions about himself, not start an R talk, and just be observant and focussed on my own stuff.
Anyway - I want to focus on my GAL in this post. I've come to the end of a hard piece of work. Tonight I am going out to the next city with Eldest and we're going to celebrate and stay overnight in a hotel. In the morning we're coming back and collecting Youngest then collecting our new dog. We're all really excited about it and have been counting the days for a good while now. I think our hands will be full but I'm hoping it will be a really positive piece of joy for the children and me. It's interesting- while we've been researching dog training methods we've already (me and the kids, that is) had so many positive conversations about encouragement, punishment, deterrent, criticism etc. I notice a change in the way we all speak to each other, even though that wasn't my intention when we started looking into force-free gentle and positive dog training methods.
I had a couple of conversations with H yesterday. We started off by talking about the childcare arrangements. He wants me to take both kids for most of every weekend from now until his project is over. I can understand that and I want to help him. I got a bit upset on the phone - I think I was just tired and sad and at a low point - but I wasn't blaming or needed and he was very understanding and kind about it. We ended up having a good talk. He said he could see the changes I was making and he was proud of me. I said I could see he was doing his best too. I said I felt angry. He said he found that really scary. I said I wasn't angry at him anymore, just at the situation and where we'd got ourselves to and how hard it was on us all. He said he really wanted to find a way to make it work, but he just felt so tired and depleted and anxious about this project that he didn't have much to offer. I validated that, and he was very validating towards me, and we left it at that. He's been good since at sending encouraging and affectionate text messages.
We have the meeting tomorrow arranged to talk over boundaries and house rules and consequences for the kids. I sent over an outline of what I thought last week. He responded with a list of complaints about it. I took a deep breath and tried to see it as anxiety and worry rather than more moaning and criticism, and I said, 'I want to compromise with you and find an agreement. I want you to feel your needs are being met by this. It would help if you could tell me what specific suggestions for changes you have on the areas that you don't feel good about right now.' That felt like a 180 for me - responding assertively - and also requires a 180 from him in coming up with some suggestions and requests of his own rather than just tearing mine down.
I'm a bit nervous about the meeting tomorrow. We've put a time limit on it so it doesn't take up the whole morning - we both have other things planned. I feel a bit hopeful and a bit sad too. But I had a great time with the kids so far this weekend, and have more GAL planned tomorrow and the puppy is here! I bought myself a pretty extravagant Mother's Day present for tomorrow (out of my own money, not family funds) in case H forgets about it, and because I wanted something nice and I deserve it.
Well done, for all of that. For the honest conversations (well done for both of you actually), for the assertiveness, and for the big mother's day present (darn, I forgot that, although the best Christmas present I got from the kids (actually the first in ages last year) was a pack of Blu Tac and a mini Christmas tree for a project, very thoughtful!))
It sounds like you had a very productive talk, that was most courageous of you (and actually pretty good for him too, giving him a positive assessment there too for him being courageous as well, I would like dh and I to get to this place as well...)
Yes, you do deserve it, especially if you have to take over sole parenting for a month or so!
The parenting isn't the hard bit, not really. I've been thinking about that a lot. My kids are old enough to be reasonably self sufficient, they aren't fussy about eating and sleeping, and they're really good about helping around the house. They bicker and I get a bit of attitude now and again, but it is within the realms of normal. And I'm in my quietest time of the year for work, and will be for the next couple of months, so I can basically be a SAHM with some skype meetings and remote working here and there and that is all okay. So it isn't the work - and if we were together it would be reasonable for me to do all the domestic stuff while he finishes this project. It's the sense that I am acting like a wife - picking up his half of the childcare - rather than a co-parent - and doing that while he's not able to act like a husband. It makes me feel very vulnerable. But I did manage to express that to him earlier this week and he's been much more present and warm and validating towards me since then. Not hearts and flowers exactly, but just acting like I'm someone on his side rather than the hired help he resents. That feels better. It does mean I miss him a bit more though, and I feel sad in a way I haven't done for a while.
Ha, I used to sometimes say that dh expected me to be an unpaid PA and cleaner who gave him sex occasionally, it is not nice to be taken for granted is it? Though dh did it partly as a response to me taking him for granted and resenting him for not being home. Dh has taken more of an interest in domestic matters though and realises a lot more all the tiny millions of things I do to run our homes (I think). I have a few unresolved issues about feminism and being a housewife and my upbringing and my MIL's expectations which she passed onto dh. These things are structural as well as personal...
That's kind of understandable that you might feel sad about that. That's ok I think, if you're sad then it's harder to be angry and resentful at him perhaps? It's good that you're both on the same side, I think that's necessary no matter what, but if you're going to R then you have to have that.
