Thank you Alison, that is so insightful, very helpful for me to get a view from the other side.
I'm sorry for what you went through as a child, no wonder it's taken you such a long time to deal with it. I applaud your bravery for finally working on that stuff, it can't be easy for you (())
It did take me ages. I have been in IC for a couple of years and working through the edges of it, but I think as long as H was there he was available for me to a) use as an emotional crutch and b) blame if it didn't go my way. I still do a bit of that - if I am honest - but this separation has robbed me of most of that and while it's been incredibly painful, this is old pain that needed processing one way or another. I expect one day I will be grateful for it, though always sad for the damage it's caused my children and my H. I have a lot of abandonment stuff of my own - so I can perhaps guess at stuff from your H's point of view. People with damaged little children inside of them can act crazy and they are no fun to live with and it isn't your fault.
Thank you for that. I think one of my problems in this whole situation is dh's refusal to acknowledge his abandonment issues let alone work on them. And this stuff comes out in the end and causes great destruction. But acknowledging it takes a lot of courage when it has caused you and others so much pain, much easier to blame other people. I feel a lot more empathy now I know how agonising it is to feel abandoned. I know I can't fix him but I would like to understand him and to help him heal in whatever limited way I can. I'm keeping my dream in my head in order to empathise instead of react and only consider my side of things. I need to be really gentle with him.
And I also feel like I will eventually be grateful for going through this because it's made me look at my blind spots and my beliefs and my reactions and behaviour and hopefully be a better person and better wife as a result. I can't waste this much pain by going back to the oblivious person I was before.
Good day today, went to an aerobics class with a friend, had a quick run in the gorgeous weather, now to get some work done before a class later and then taking the kids to their afterschool stuff. Ds1 is stressed by having to do forms for his new job and I know how intimidating bureaucracy can be so I will see what moral support he needs later.
I know my H has been very frustrated when he's pointed out that he feels my emotional reactions to things (his coldness and distance, his parenting styles, his EA) are more to do with my childhood experiences than his behaviour. He's said, many times, he feels like he's taking the blame for my past. That I don't actually see him, but I only see other people who have hurt me, and he's paying for their misdeeds. He says I massively over-react and he can't live his life around my trauma, trying not to trigger it and to heal it. And I can totally see that. He is right.
What it feels like for me is that because I've had a terrible childhood I am not yet healed from, I am not allowed to have a reasonable emotional reaction or objection to actual factual things he's done in the present. That he believes most normal people would be okay with the silent treatment, the EA, the verbal abuse, the relentless criticism. Those things aren't in my head: they actually happened, and he did them - and it isn't only trauma that makes me object to them. He believes (or at least I gather this from what he says and now he acts) that the problem isn't in how he behaves, but in my inability to tolerate it.
I think we're both right, and it is good for me to heal the past and work out which of my feelings are about now and which are about then. And I can't do that work with him in the house with me, still acting in ways that trigger that stuff and hurt me. So where we are today - me healing and setting boundaries is the right place to be.
The thing is, no matter the damage you received during childhood, your husband will have his own stuff to look at too. Us distancers are not very good at taking responsibility for our own feelings and behaviours. It's easy as a distancer to point a finger and say 'look at that pursuer, what an emotional mess' because we're so cool and calm (we're withdrawn and don't realise it). And I agree that he ought to be looking at it and not just blaming you for your role in things. But it does take one person to start changing for the other person to shift, and you've already started making those changes.
And I have to be honest here Alison: you need to forgive your husband for the past. I can see lots of 'I understand how he was like this because I was like that' but I don't see any forgiveness yet. Maybe it's too early for you. I feel like until you can forgive him at least a bit (emotionally, not just intellectually) and let go of some of your resentments you will find it hard to trust that he can change, and your behaviour will make it harder for him to change, because you'll constantly be judging and waiting for him to slip up and go back to old habits. I can see that he did a few things during family therapy which seemed like old habits, but it sounds like outside that he also did some positive things which show willingness to change. Maybe try to focus more on the positive stuff than the negative, it takes time to change habits and if you believe the worst of him then he'll live down to those expectations. None of his terrible behaviour was acceptable, just like my husband's behaviour was unacceptable, but they both had their reasons for behaving that way and they had no malicious intent, they were responding in a really terrible way to stuff they felt and to the way we acted and reacted. But forgiveness is a process and a very long and difficult and cyclical one too, I'm finding. Anyway, I'm playing devil's advocate to some of the stuff you're saying, I know you've had a bad day or two and I hope you manage to find your hope again.
Tiring day but a pretty good one, texted dh a bunch of times about different stuff like some critical feedback I got and he responded quickly even though he has had a very long and busy day. I told him how glad I am he's coming to the run on Saturday, especially when he's so manic at work this week. Had a quick chat with him this evening about some good news for ds2. Actually looking forward to our date tomorrow, though I need to plan for our goodbye because last time we went to this place I ended up getting really upset at him leaving me on the tube. So maybe I'll discuss that with him in advance of us saying goodbye.
Just wanted to say thanks for piping on my thread.
Originally Posted by dillyDaf
But it does take one person to start changing for the other person to shift, and you've already started making those changes.
I can see that you have looked inward and are now consciously making changes to the behaviours which contributed to where you are now. Distancing behaviors stem from a desire not to be hurt - it is, at times, an ill conceived and damaging form of self preservation. But to let those barriers down mean we open ourselves up to being hurt. So, for you to try to change those behaviours, to open yourself up to hurt and rejection, shows great courage.
So, I am all for you trying to change this. The only thing I will say is that we should make these changes for us. Not for our H's. Not because we expect some change from them. Other people will always disappoint, WW's and WAW especially because they have their own [censored] to deal with, their own fog to walk through. Walk aways do so because they believe that there is something, anything, better. They are willing to blow up families because of this belief. There is courage there. But there is also frustration, resentment and a great deal of selfishness .
Make the changes and persevere with them (which your doing) because eventually behaviour becomes habit. But do it with no expectation. When we have expectations and those expectations aren't met. We retreat. So, be consistent in your behaviors, but don't get upset if he is inconsistent with his.
You are on the right track. He is starting to come around. But this is a marathon. Be patient. Continue walking your path and making the changes for you.
The changes are for us. He will notice them. He has noticed them. But they are for us.
FS: I agree with every word you say. But those changes aren't just for us, they're also for our relationships. Because if you're distancing you can't have intimacy. And living without intimacy is unsatisfying. And I agree that you can't MAKE someone else change, absolutely not. But if my husband is too damaged and stubborn and unable to change enough in the right direction for us to save this, then I'll still have the knowledge that I did my very best, and I'll have learnt new skills and behaviours which would be healthy in another relationship.
Talking of expectations, my dh texted me this morning to say he had to get up at 5.30 to get to work, I know that this is partly because he wants to leave early for our date and he has such a busy week. I feel grateful that he's made this time for me, but also I know he will be exhausted so I'll keep my expectations low. He'll be past this busy season next week, I wonder how he will feel then. I wish he felt able to step off this hamster wheel of overachievement in his job, but I can see that the faster the wheel spins, the scarier it is to jump off.
Thanks Dilly. I appreciate you commenting on my situation - on your own thread too! - and also your forthright honesty. I think you're right. I won't comment further here as I don't want to derail your thread by talking about my own stuff (I only mentioned my own thinking in case it helped illuminate things with you and your H) any further.
On whether we make the changes for us or not. I guess I agree with you Dilly. I want a close intimate relationship. It is my desire and I think it would benefit me in lots of ways. That means working on changes and forgiveness - and, perhaps, letting go out the outcome. I don't want to manipulate my H into coming home by being nice to him or pretending I have forgiven him when I haven't. But I want to be the sort of person capable of an intimate and forgiving relationship, and I work on those changes in the hope that if he makes his own changes, it can work out. And if it doesn't work out, it will benefit me anyway, whether to feel better about being alone or a more suitable and giving partner to someone else one day.
Yes, exactly. And I think both our husbands also want a close and intimate relationship too. But it's easier said than done when both of you have defences up. I'm trying to take mine down first and that takes a lot of courage but I have to.
OK date last night. We met up, had a fun activity then went to find a restaurant. Dh got very snappy because I messed up the navigation on my phone and it crossed my mind to run away, then I saw that thought for what it was and ignored it. Go me. He said he was very tired and also needed the toilet, which is enough to make anyone snappy He took us to a different restaurant and we had a nice meal. He told me some big stuff which is going to happen at work at the end of April which is going to change everything for him, possibly in a good way (but not in a working fewer hours way, sigh, and with a huge amount of upheaval). We talked about the kids. He said he was going to come home for mother's day and take us all out for lunch and then go back to work. He asked me to breakfast before our run on Saturday and said he couldn't stay for lunch because he has to go back to work in the afternoon.
There's also some stuff with his mum, she contacted me asking to see the kids soon and I am so so so furious with her I think I will have to arrange it so she comes when I'm not there. I feel like this is in a big part her fault for abandoning dh and she has never owned it or apologised or tried to make it up to him or his siblings. I can't forgive her for the damage she's caused dh, and he can't either. So I will avoid her, because I'm not sure that I would be able to be civil to her right now.
So I kept my expectations low and they were exceeded. In the busiest week of his year dh is making a big effort to see me, that's good. I'm feeling stressed due to weight of work right now and because there is lots going on, so I will try not to think about the future right now. This work thing of dh's might mean he's less likely to move towards me, I don't know. Last night he looked at me lovingly, but I've seen that look before and he gave it to me the night before he left, so goodness knows what that means. I'm exhausted and think I'll just go with the flow for a bit.
Oh and edit: when dh got off the train he gave me a hug and said 'don't cry when I'm gone' and waited on the platform till the train went and waved me goodbye. That was ok.
You know, if it were me, I might just delegate H to deal with that. It's his mother, they're his kids - and he can organise and administer it if she wants to see them and he approves of that. I know you want to support him if you can, and you don't want to distance but this is something you, for very good reasons, can't deal with right now. He's managed to opt out of quite a lot of things he can't deal with, so I don't see why you shouldn't either. Do your kids want to see her?
But that's the only negative thing in your post - and it isn't your H's doing, and all the other things were really positive. I must learn from this and train myself to notice positive things. For some reason it makes me feel very vulnerable to do that, so I am going to discuss that in IC too.
He took us to a different restaurant and we had a nice meal. He told me some big stuff which is going to happen at work at the end of April which is going to change everything for him, possibly in a good way (but not in a working fewer hours way, sigh, and with a huge amount of upheaval). We talked about the kids. He said he was going to come home for mother's day and take us all out for lunch and then go back to work. He asked me to breakfast before our run on Saturday and said he couldn't stay for lunch because he has to go back to work in the afternoon.