Dealing with a complex MLC and/or Wayward Wife

[joejoe1]

P,

Let go, let go, let go of trying to control your Sitch. Every action you ask us about is about getting a reaction from your WW. It's nothing you can say to change her mind. LBS speaks with actions. Only your actions will give you the best chance to save your M. Only when you completely let go and work on yourself and allow your WW to see a man of self respect and strength will you grow stronger and heal.

You have three weeks to speak with your actions. All the LBS, and I mean all have tried what you are trying. Trying to look and search for the right words or actions to change their spouse mind. Make the right moves, implement the right strategy. You can read, sitch after sitch, which I have, spend days on days searching for an answer in one of the Sitches, and the only things that ever worked was the LBS, working on healing themselves, building self respect, and holding to their boundaries.

Everything we tell you here is for you, and not for you to win your WW back. The constant drum beat from all the Vets will be, detach and work on healing. Let your WW go. No more holding on to her. Losing you is a huge lost, but she must feel it, she must feel it, no faking, really feel, she's losing you or have lost you. It can't be a trick or strategy.

You can't get dressed up to go GAL and then wait around to your WW see you to try and get an reaction. You can't walk pass her room to see if she notice you. You can't call her, and then make up a reason why you called her that don't make any sense. You can't tell her why you are leaving and what will happen to her when you are gone. Because, when a person is done and they have let go, they won't care what what their WS thinks. A person that respect themselves, won't care what other thinks, when they know they are doing the right thing.

It's time to move forward in confidence, strengthening your self-respect, learning to love yourself.

Most LBS ask about the LRT, thinking that it's a last ditch effort to win their spouses back. But, what it truly is, it's a life altering dynamic to change the person you were, to become a person only a fool would leave. It's time to gain space from all the pain and dysfunction to heal. Because the truth is your M can't work without healing. The LRT, is to help the LBS to start the process of working thru all the pain and emotions, the roller coaster. The ups and downs, without having the WW as a distraction. It it will hurt and be painful, down days, depressing moments. There will also be break thru, and growth. On the other side of the pain, is a brand new you. But the only way to get to that person, is thru the pain/process.

TD Jake's says, the only way to get to the success is going g thru the process. And in the process is pain and scarifice. The healing lies on the other side, not in the pain and scarifice, not before the pain and scarifice, only beyond them both. This will be hard work. Buckle up P!

Notice, that I never said the LRT was a process to fix your M! It's a process to fix YOU!!!!!

Onward and upward brotha.

[sandi2]

Maybe you can't see it in yourself, but you are still trying to control her. You are still trying to talk you way out of this mess. Emotional pressure and pursuit is not the answer to this problem.

I reread your first post, and I think she had already made the decision to leave you. She was looking for a place, but before she found one.....you tell her that you agree that things aren't working and you think she should leave. You chose not to disclose your knowledge of her one night stand. Maybe b/c she would figure out you were still snooping? IDK, but the point is that confronting her now, or trying to talk to her about compulsive behavior is not going to help the status of your MR. It won't cause her to respect you more.

You need to let go of this idea of confronting her about the latest PA. If it didn't do any good on the first one, it's not going to make much difference on the latest one. IMHO, you forfeited the best time to bring it up, so now that she's in the process of moving out.........don't give her a "parting shot".

[P_Jam]

joejoe1,
Very well written THANK YOU! This really helped me solidify my decision. See below.

Sandi,
I know..every question I've ever asked had something to do with control. I haven't really denied this. Although I know DB is about letting go and not controlling but for us newcomers (especially control freaks) this is extremely difficult to implement full scale (even when you see little results). Not to mention that I've now learned that "Nice Guys" do not learn quickly. As a rationalization/justification - even though I know its a form of control... It's really hard to believe that there aren't some opportunities where 'control' MIGHT help (especially in the short term for possible long term gain). My strategy has always been to try and plant some seeds in her mind that might sprout later. I just wanted to maximize this time while she is still in the house.

That being said;
I have decided to take the advice you both offer. I do not plan to have an 'exit interview' or give any parting shots. Not only that, I now feel very comfortable in that decision thanks to the above comments. I'm not even drawn to it at this point. Things are still difficult for me as she is still in the house. So having her around as a constant reminder of what I'm about to lose makes detaching VERY difficult. But I believe I have done a very good job inside the house on a daily basis. Admittedly SHE may have some subconscious feelings that I'm still attached. As you both make it clear that things really don't start to change until the rope is actually dropped. But as far as fake-it-till-you-make-it... I've done well (I think). Since BD2 (me asking her to move out). I have had the house painted, I have replaces the guest bedroom furniture (to replace what she is taking). I have not pursued or had ANY relationship talks. I have been cordial, nice but distant. I have focused on the kids. Furthermore, both her and my kids have had some form of the flue in the last 2 weeks. I have done my part to be helpful with the kids as well as polite in helping her a little with the situation (but not care taking). I know she has noticed. I'm not sure if its positive or negative - but she has done a good job in mirroring me. She no longer comes to pursue me for being distant (which [censored], but I have learned from this board it doesn't really matter at this point until she is truly remorseful which is most likely months possibly years away)

so.. onward and upward. I'm getting more comfortable in the unknown. Every time I think about the situation I've now learned to tell myself - THERE IS NOTHING TO THINK ABOUT! Nothing can be changed right now. Only made worse. So focus on me and fixing NGS. I continue with weekly IC and don't plan to stop. I will focus on GAL (maintaining a life actually). Although it will be tough in a different way (loneliness) i'm actually looking forward to her moving out. As it feels like then I will be able to start working on the 'next step' of more fully detaching. I'll still have some work to do on internalizing this for myself (and not as a tactic to get her back) but in time I believe I will be able to more fully surrender.

So on to my next questions for you experts. I've asked this a little before but I'm really have a tough time with this aspect of detaching and moving on... It's about relationships and OW. I understand that I should not be jumping into another "relationship" as I'm not emotionally ready and it's not fair to the OW. That being said; there are still other options than an emotional relationship. I'm a fit attractive guy and believe that I will have opportunities to fulfill my physical/sexual needs. Everyone says "no" don't do this (although we won't judge you if you do). My hang-up is: if I'm really detaching and getting to a point where I don't care about ANYTHING that she does, why is it such a no-no to start living my life as a 'single person'. She is! and I'm might end up being single anyway. It's really hard for me to think about my wife out doing girls gone wild while I essentially 'wait" - all at the same time as focusing on detachment? Speaking to my IC I know that this can be a bit of a 'crutch' and I need to focus on becoming centered in my loneliness but If I'm not engaging in a 'relationship' emotionally I don't believe these 2 things are mutually exclusive.

Thoughts/Examples - Pros/cons?

[LH19]

PJ,

I think you are doing a good job at realizing you are not in control of your situation and that you understand at least logically that you need to let her go.

As far as other woman goes I am a proponent of 2 consenting adults should be able to engage in certain activities without judgment.

Just know that if recon is your ultimate goal then this will not help your cause and will more then likely hurt your cause.

[P_Jam]

PJ,


Just know that if recon is your ultimate goal then this will not help your cause and will more then likely hurt your cause.

I can see how this is Possible I guess. But only from the perspective that if I did not have any other relationships it couldn't 'complicate' this anymore and could be considered more 'honorable'. But from her perspective (she wants out) and I've heard her say this is a risk/concern of hers (me finding someone else) ..

I guess what I'm saying is.. how could she expect that I wouldn't be trying to figure out what I want just the same as she is? Besides the fact that she's not acting logical now, but we're assuming that if recon is in the picture - she is back to thinking logically.

I know you probably don't have all the answers as this could be specific to the sitch/person - but I'm curious if I'm missing another risk here?

Ultimately, I think I would like this to go unnoticed by my W. I definitely would not be trying to advertise but I am also aware that there is a relatively high risk she will find out. We are both very close with our neighbors so at some point they might be filling her in on the coming and going around my house. Her getting Jealous is one possible positive. Which I think would happen, but I still would prefer her not to know, so I would not set this as a goal/reason.

[AnotherStander]

My hang-up is: if I'm really detaching and getting to a point where I don't care about ANYTHING that she does, why is it such a no-no to start living my life as a 'single person'. She is! and I'm might end up being single anyway. It's really hard for me to think about my wife out doing girls gone wild while I essentially 'wait" - all at the same time as focusing on detachment?

I started seeing women about a year after BD and it just really messed with my head for a while. I was with my XW for almost 25 years, and it just didn't feel right being with someone else. It's hard to explain but it was just a lot to go through on top of everything else. If I could rewind the clock I would have held off until after my D. I think I would have been better prepared for it mentally. I'm sure it affects different people in different ways so it's hard to say what your own experience would be.

[DejaVu6]

PJ... I have been apart from my H for almost eight months now. Recently I have started "dating" but really just meeting people. I agree that two consenting adults should be able to do what they want but the implication is that both people know what they are consenting to. I think if you are honest with someone (i.e. I am not looking for an R...this is purely about meeting my physical/sexual needs) and they are still agreeable then go for it. Of course, if you do want to reconnect with your wife, then you will likely have to explain OP's involvement in your life so keep that in mind as well. I think that is what other's have mentioned - the possibility of making a complicated situation even more complicated.

In my sitch, I didn't even think about dating until I was sure in my own mind that reconnection is not in the cards and that I am okay with it. And I emphasize that I had to be sure in MY mind (and heart). TBH, I did not expect to be getting back out there this soon but now that I have, I know the timing is good for me and I am not doing more damage to myself or to anyone else. My conscience is clear and I have enjoyed meeting the guys that I have met and have made at least one new friend out of it. I don't think I would feel the same way if I was still thinking about my STBXH. Anyway...totally your call, of course. I would just be careful getting someone else involved at this stage who might be looking for more than just a hook up.

[P_Jam]

Hi All,
Thanks to AS and DV for their input on dating and OW!

Just a little update and Journaling for your reading enjoyment:

Feeling really good the past couple of days. I think it's because I've stopped All snooping I have nothing to 'think' about and try to 'fix'. I'm able to look at the future (short term) and picture myself as single dad (every other week). I'm also able to feel excited about when I don't have the kids and GAL. I'm much more comfortable knowing that - I don't know what the future holds. I feel much lighter (especially today). I also feel more confident in what will most likely be my decision to see OW. Not a 'relationship' - I plan to be wide open with where I'm at. In fact this is a 'decision' I will need to make - as I have been talking with 2 other females because of this situation. One who is 9 months into her separation/divorce and already knows neither of us are actually ready for a relationship. I believe this will end up being a very good friendship. The other is 2yrs past her divorce and still doesn't want a relationship - but completely open to something physical <-- 2 consenting adults. Admittedly I feel a little guilty thinking/planning for such actions this soon. That being said; I also feel that with a WW that has completely disrespected me so much recently, it also feels like I'm just grabbing a hold of some self respect. Regardless of things I lacked in our relationship I do not deserve the recent treatment, continued lies and betrayal (especially after being caught). I believe that I still do want reconciliation but because of the complexity of this situation I'm wondering if it's even possible from her perspective. I know I could, but the steps she would need to take might just be too much for her to commit even if she decides she wants me back. I love her, but do not feel that I owe her the action of putting my sex life and complete detachment on hold. Furthermore, everyone one is convinced this will mostly take years to play out. I know for a fact I can't wait that long. Life it too short!

Update from around the house last couple of days:
W and S9 have been REALLY sick with a stomach bug. Both puking for 3 days straight. So I have been doing my best to help them both through this (without any pursuit). She's noticed too.. Last night she asked me for a hug. I looked at her a little funny then gave her a hug while she was laying down. She said "I bet this is really frustrating and annoying for you". I said: "not at all, you are both REALLY sick and I do not mind helping you both through this. I do not hate you." then I just let it go and walked away. I'm pretty sure she got the message. I'm here, I'm human I still care - but I'm not going to 'care take' and baby you through this. But I'm fine picking up prescriptions, getting you a glass of water, etc. - but the situation does not cause me to forget where you/we are. Not going to put to much weight on this.. but it feels like something Sandi mentioned.. "LIFE has a way of helping them feel reality". I'm sure she is feeling/noticing what she is giving up (security, family, etc) - not that it will change anything in the short term - but she is noticing that if this happened 2 weeks from now she would be all on her own. As none of her EA/PA's are far enough a long to take on this role. Of course I wanted to throw this in her face - but didn't.

[ovrrnbw]

I stopped posting in here b/c I think you completely ignored what I was saying and maybe you'll continue to do that, but I had to point one more thing you said that is crazy:

but completely open to something physical <-- 2 consenting adults. Admittedly I feel a little guilty thinking/planning for such actions this soon. That being said; I also feel that with a WW that has completely disrespected me so much recently, it also feels like I'm just grabbing a hold of some self respect.

So why not just file for divorce? Why not wait until that is final? I don't agree with dating while married/separated/going through divorce but I understand why people do. In your case, you're going to have casual sex with an OW to get a hold of self respect? I just want to cringe. That's insecurity, not self respect.

I believe that I still do want reconciliation but because of the complexity of this situation I'm wondering if it's even possible from her perspective.

And then one sentence later you post this. If you sleeping with another woman is what it takes to get your W back, that's a very bad sign. Do you want to fix things or no?

As none of her EA/PA's are far enough a long to take on this role.

Are you sure you would know this?

I think you should take time to yourself and work on you. Be happy with you. Become strong independent you. Take care of your kids. Do the right things and create new habits. Good luck.

[P_Jam]

Ovrrnbw,
Where did you think I was ignoring you? I looked back and saw one post related to having another conversation with my wife about the most recent PA - definitely did not ignore. Was actually going in that direction until others stated it really didn't have any positive outcome - so Why?

I respect your post. No need to stop.

I think you bring up some good points above. I'm not ignorant to the fact that some may be insecurity - meaning that I'm only supplementing my ego if I move forward with this. My point is, i'm not sure working on myself and having physical relationships need to be mutually exclusive. Things I haven't shared because they seem unimportant to the overall question I had to the board... I do plan to take a full sexual sabbatical per NMMNG. I'm 2.5 months in. and although my goal was 3 months I'll probably at least go another month after she is officially out of the house and have debating taking a full 6 months. This to work on myself and let my decision sink in.

When I say 'self respect' i'm not directing that towards the physical relationship. It's more about my feelings of no longer feeling sorry for myself in regards to my WW. Maybe some is anger (doesn't really feel like it though). I'm very dissapointed in what she has done but the fact remains - I'm really not sure if I want reconciliation. Deep down if I had to take read on my 'gut' I would say I do. But I don't know if this is because of what I really want, or if it's because it's what I know. That is why this time/space that we are creating should be utilized by both parties to figure out what THEY/WE want going forward. I'm not supposed to be doing anything 'for her'. All for myself. So.. why then is this such a no-no? Again, doesn't mean I'm going to do it tomorrow. But I am drawn to the idea and interested in hearing all points about the subject (yours included).

Right now she is out figuring out if she wants to reconcile or if she even wants to work on the relationship at all. I'm implying that I should do the same thing and that would also help detachment.

Of course, I still fee scorned, rejected as my wife of 16yrs have just dumped me for MULTIPLE 'tools'. No doubt It would be nice to feel wanted.

As for your feeling of not dating while going through Separation/divorce/ is this grounded in some religious factor? Based on the way you wrote it - I don't either. But with where things are now and how many people she has slept with in the last 3 months. I don't actually feel/agree that we are 'married' anymore. It's broken/gone. The first marriage is over. Anything reconciled from her is a new M. Period. Does not discount your opinion in regards to insecurity which I address above - but I do not feel I owe her any honor in regards to our 'current' M.