Dealing with a complex MLC and/or Wayward Wife

[TBSakaJ9]

I'm not convinced she's going to enjoy 'girls gone wild' at 45 with 2 young kids for very long. So it feels like her awaking is not far away.

Well my XW is going to be 45 next month and she is still enjoying girls gone wild, with 2 young kids, while getting child support to supplement her income.

Don't be so sure...…………...

[P_Jam]

Just wondering if your sitch is WAS or WW? This seems to create some key differences (some good some bad). I guess I'm also looking for some experiences with WW that didn't take 18-24 months. 1) I don't think I can wait that long. I already feel a desire to start other relationships. I know some of this is revenge as well as a 'crutch' for detachment. I plan to take sexual sabbatical for sure - but doesn't feel right to sit and 'wait' while she's doing girls gone wild. 2) She's a 'mother' at heart and with such young kids I think/hope the draw of the family structure breaks the fog sooner. 3) my IC also doesn't 'think' it would take that long (although he's only met her once). I know it will never be quick enough for me but that fact that she is moving out (not me), going from house/yard to apartment with very active boys, as well as a financial drain. She's going to be getting a taste of reality on all fronts VERY quickly. My gut tells me it will mostly depend on the EA's and if they ever turn into anything that might string this along. I don't really see her starting something 'new' right now that develops. I think she is going to play around physically and see where the current EA's go (cause those are her biggest attachments). She's got a couple of EA's/PA's that fill an emotional void, but I honestly don't think they will fill the other void once the family structure is gone. I don't think either of these EA's are really 'available' for her. The one that causes me the most fear is actually married (bad relationship, sleeping on couch) but he seems committed to reconciling his for the family. Could be wrong, but don't see him leaving his sitch just cause she's now available This, and if she start IC to start to realize this is fantasy... Remember, I think I caught this early and the fact that I caught it and therefore help facilitate BD she may not be as 'locked' in as others.

I'm also starting to look forward to the time and space myself... Maybe I will realize sooner than later that I'm just on interested in waiting, or even wanting her back at all.

Which brings me to my next question.. Why is it so Black/White that we (LBS) should not have/start other relationships especially with a WW? Logically I can see how it COULD just add complication - but in reality we do not have a M/relationship right now. Logically, I could also argue that it may facilitate the 'loss' she needs as well as the feeling of detachment/moving on from her.

[LH19]

Just wondering if your sitch is WAS or WW?

I caught her first EA early with the neighbor. I think he was looking for someone to talk to and when he found out I knew he got spooked and ended contact with my ex. I believe there was another one right before she filed but can't be sure. She is "chasing the butterflies in her stomach effect" (her words) but I don't thinking it's working out to well for her right now.

I already feel a desire to start other relationships. I know some of this is revenge as well as a 'crutch' for detachment. I plan to take sexual sabbatical for sure - but doesn't feel right to sit and 'wait' while she's doing girls gone wild.

That's an issue you should work on with IC.

2) She's a 'mother' at heart and with such young kids I think/hope the draw of the family structure breaks the fog sooner.

Maybe but these scripts typically stay on the same timelines.

3) my IC also doesn't 'think' it would take that long (although he's only met her once). I know it will never be quick enough for me but that fact that she is moving out (not me), going from house/yard to apartment with very active boys, as well as a financial drain. She's going to be getting a taste of reality on all fronts VERY quickly. My gut tells me it will mostly depend on the EA's and if they ever turn into anything that might string this along. I don't really see her starting something 'new' right now that develops. I think she is going to play around physically and see where the current EA's go (cause those are her biggest attachments). She's got a couple of EA's/PA's that fill an emotional void, but I honestly don't think they will fill the other void once the family structure is gone.

Your IC is most likely telling you what you want to hear to keep you coming back for more. Again, I agree just not with your timeline.

I don't think either of these EA's are really 'available' for her. The one that causes me the most fear is actually married (bad relationship, sleeping on couch) but he seems committed to reconciling his for the family. Could be wrong, but don't see him leaving his sitch just cause she's now available This, and if she start IC to start to realize this is fantasy... Remember, I think I caught this early and the fact that I caught it and therefore help facilitate BD she may not be as 'locked' in as others.

Just like mine I caught it early on. The problem is it didn't take it's natural course and my ex is searching for that high again.

I'm also starting to look forward to the time and space myself... Maybe I will realize sooner than later that I'm just on interested in waiting, or even wanting her back at all.

That is very likely.

Which brings me to my next question.. Why is it so Black/White that we (LBS) should not have/start other relationships especially with a WW? Logically I can see how it COULD just add complication - but in reality we do not have a M/relationship right now.

Because that is being selfish and you are using and hurting another human being.

Logically, I could also argue that it may facilitate the 'loss' she needs as well as the feeling of detachment/moving on from her.

You are trying to use logic and reason to figure out an emotional human being. They don't understand logic and reason.
[/quote]

[P_Jam]

LH,
Would like to clarify the "other relationships" and using another human being... I"m not suggesting I start one only to make W jealous.

Ex: I'm have female friend that I'm connecting with now who is also going through divorce. We are very open that we really don't want/need to have a relationship. But clearly we are making a connection based on what we have in common. I can see something happening. I/we would need to be open with each other, but my point is.. no matter who/how/when there is a next relationship it is most likely a rebound relationship anyway. So I"m wondering why it is such a cardinal rule to completely avoid in this situation? And not continue living my life on that front as well?

[sandi2]

It seems detaching is the most difficult for newcomers to grasp.....much less actually doing it. I have a favorite copy of a much shorter definition/example of detaching. I'm going to paste it below.

**************************************************************************************

Definition of Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love (known as to lovingly detach*), we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flip-side, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my duty/job to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanding or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she really is rather than who I want him/her to be.

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.

[LH19]

PJ,

Yeah have at it. But based on your history of already cheating on her my guess is she will just use that as justification on why she is leaving you.

If you are going to recon there is clearly going to be trust issues between you and this will just add fuel to the fire.

[AnotherStander]

Ex: I'm have female friend that I'm connecting with now who is also going through divorce. We are very open that we really don't want/need to have a relationship. But clearly we are making a connection based on what we have in common. I can see something happening. I/we would need to be open with each other, but my point is.. no matter who/how/when there is a next relationship it is most likely a rebound relationship anyway. So I"m wondering why it is such a cardinal rule to completely avoid in this situation? And not continue living my life on that front as well?

Well, because you are still very wrecked emotionally. You are not in a healthy place to start a new R. In the end we just offer advice here, it's up to you whether to take it or not. So it's your choice. But I will say that I jumped into a new R a year after BD thinking I was ready, but man I was not even close. It was emotionally upsetting and draining. DB'ing is as much about your own personal recovery and rebuilding as it is about saving your M. Work on yourself first, then work on a new R, whether that's with your W or someone else.

[sandi2]

Does her last PA that I know about come into play at all during ANY of this? Or do you suggest this is all withheld until the future when I'm more centered? I know I need to take the focus off her but there is still the necessary goal explained by Sandy2 about needing to create 'losses' to the WW. <-- this is what I want to maximize as much as possible before she is out of the house. But obviously not to the detriment of my overall situation.

I want to address the H needing to "create" losses for his WW, b/c I am beginning to see a few H's who become distracted by it. First of all, nobody knows what that loss might be that shakes her out of the fantasy and makes her see reality. Waywardness comes when the W no longer respects her H as a man. The actions the H takes should be indicative of his self respect as a man. For instance, if he knows his W is cheating, he requires her to leave the marital bedroom, b/c she has disrespected their M.....and him. Understand, the purpose is not to punish her, but rather to stand up for himself and protect his dignity. He can cut off or withdraw some the benefits she gets by being legally M to him......and/or living under the same roof with him....... as long as the overall message is "I won't enable you to disrespect me". In other words, the only losses he can oversee are those connected to him. Outside of that arena, it's not his job to try and create losses for her. Sometimes, life has a way of opening our eyes when nothing else could.

I can see how you become inspired by reading new information, and you are eager to apply what you've read. I want to encourage you to wait on acting on something, until you run it past the board. A lot of LBH'S have trouble staying balanced in their thinking and their actions.

Question: based on the current sitch.. how should my communication/relationship be with her?

She plans to move out in three weeks, correct? I suggest you interact with her along the same behavior as if she were a checkout clerk in the store where you shop. When you go through the checkout lane, you may exchange some pleasant small talk during the transaction, but you don't flirt or discuss private issues with her. You don't try to sneak in a little touchy stuff, show affection, hang around her while she works, etc. You complete the transaction in a civilized, maybe even friendly manner, and you go on your way. Of course with your WW, you will need to talk about certain logistics, but you get the picture here, right? Why make the atmosphere unbearable? As long as the decision has already been made for her to move out.......I suggest you try to be as civil as possible. If there should be an incident where you feel the tears coming on for you, then go to the bathroom and bury your face in a stack of towels. Don't show emotion in front of her. If she's the one who gets teary eyed, don't be cruel but don't crumble at the sight of female tears, either. Remain calm, and don't try to fix or rescue her. You can something like, "This has been difficult for everyone".

but should I continue to be 'distant' but polite? Or do I soften as she softens.

By "distant" I assume you mean detached. You stay emotionally detached from her drama. WW's are manipulative. She'll check your emotional temperature to see how attached or detached you stand. Therefore, you cannot trust her softness. You can't trust her in any sense. Unless she tells you she's willing to cooperate and do whatever is necessary to save the MR.........you pay no attention to her softness. I'm telling you, she will use her feminine ways to manipulate, so always be on guard. As much as it hurts to think of you both being separate entities, that's pretty much the attitude you need to take right now. ((hugs))

Really weird trying to manage this - considering she does't know I know and/or doesn't really feel that much guilt for what is hurting me..

The best way to manage this......is to stop managing her.

IT would be easier if she was rude and distant to me like other sitches...

Just remember that what you see is not authentic.

[P_Jam]

Sandy!
so great to have you contribute to my sitch I've read A LOT of your posts and really happy to have your input.

I do realize that my effort to create a loss is not only a controlling move but also may not be the loss that begins to break the fog. From my perspective though.. doesn't seem like it can hurt. I've got 3 weeks before she is out of the house and from then on it will only be time, space and her own decisions that will hopefully begin to break the fog.

I'm not sure I even have anymore ideas on how to create anymore losses. I've also stopped snooping. I think she is getting the feeling that I am detached as I think i'm 'acting as if' pretty well. I'm also doing good at GAL staying very busy with Golf etc (although I do fear that me being gone a lot is also allowing her to remember why she has resentment in the first place). That being said even my IC says; she my not know it directly but until you completely detach/drop the rope there is probably an underlying feeling that you have not detached <-- and she can feel this.

It will be easier when she is out (although acting as if will be tougher) as I won't have the immediate feedback on how she is feeling and this is when I will just need to focus on me. Right now I can tell she is trying to mirror me by detaching more and not being as obvious about being nice/cake eating. Which makes me feel like what I'm doing is working a little.

I'm doing something this weekend I probably shouldn't (but it's too late) we are doing one more family event. I know I should not have invited her to this - but I did. Hopefully, it just works as one more thing/lifestyle that she recognizes she will be giving up.

I'm still hopeful that my sitch will turn around quicker than others - but only time will tell. I'll keep journaling and asking questions of you and the board.

One question for you Sandy (not sure if you read through my entire sitch). Based on where I am now (WW). I plan to go dark/grey as soon as she is out basically LRT. I haven't talked about R or pursued in over 3 weeks. So when she goes I plan to just keep any communication about the kids. Do you agree with this strategy? Not sure I really have any other options.

[P_Jam]

Sandy, (or anyone)
I think you're in an opposite time zone so thought I would throw this question out to you as well as you will probably read the above and below while I'm asleep.

I'm thinking about having the equivalent of an 'exit interview' with her before she moves. She has an idea that I know about her last PA (although I did not confront her directly so it's never been an official conversation). Furthermore, she might be under the impression that I still believe that she has ended the other EA's/PA's (I know she has not - but she may not have gotten physical again - yet). As you know she is trying to cake eat as much as she can while she is still in the house. She also seems to be under the impression that we will still be doing 'family' stuff on some weekends (ya know to keep the family unit together). Essentially, I think she is covering for cake eating in the future by acting like she is 'working on our relationship' when we are together as a family - when really it's just cake eating.

So, I thought it would be important to have a talk about what my boundaries are and why as it pertains to our relationship after the moves. Explain to her that; I believe she is still actively having EA's/PA's (details don't matter) and that I will not be ANYONE'S plan b. Therefore I don't see a lot of 'family' time for us until you are ready to actively work on your issues and our relationship. We will be 'friends' and we will work together as co-parents to make the transition for our children as smooth as possible - but our MR DOES NOT EXIST and if/when you are ready we can discuss the possibility of building something in the future - but not until you are done with OM!

Thoughts?