Small but insignificant update today. In the last 6 months there been times where W don't talk or text at all. If I go dark and NC, she goes dark and NC on text, convo, and phone, etc, unless it's something important on her side, or unless it's something I initiate, whether it be for practical reasons, or just for plain fun. I have been giving her space, and haven't been pursuing. Not initiating R talks, and just listening if she does. I know this is a ridiculous he said/she said, play by play illustration on here, I just thought I would just clue everyone into the current dynamics of things as far as interaction.
I know better not to have expectations, and give my best, most pleasant, fearless self, without expectation, or covert contract, but also prepare for worst. But this friend zone brotherly love type of attitude is just pissing me off. Its like I have to make all the effort, and get nothing in return other than the platonic "thanks." it's like now I'm doing all the initiating and giving, in convo, activities and gestures now, and she's just accepting and going along with it. I wonder if this is how she felt during the R, since she is, or was to me at times, such a thoughtful, considerate, and giving person. Maybe that's why the WW/WAW goes totally selfish in their fog, because they feel underappreciated? Just a thought...
I was thinking to myself and mention this to W. Since her aunt gave me a free car recently, especially when I needed it, and MIL has been watching S1 for the last year-and-a-half, and is getting a little runned down, I asked her on her opinion on something they they might want, need, or like, since my W is really good at reading people on what they can use or would want as far as a thoughtful gift or thank you, and expressed such to her.
I offered for all of us to go for a walk after work through text the other day, since it was such a beautiful day. She said she would love to, and hoped I was enjoying the sun and warm weather that day since I work outside. Also by coincidence, it was national walk day. Unfortunately, we both had to renege that day because she had a migraine and I was getting home late because of traffic.
Still being asked if I want to attend Easter Egg hunt Sat. I replied "I havent made a decision on that yet." She was asking me what I think she should do, since her dilemma was the Easter egg hunt starts at a time we usually put S1 down for nap, she didn't want to interrupt his nap schedule. I told her, that she should make the decision herself, since she is the one with the dilemma over, after I suggested that he just nap in the car ride. It's my turn and time with S1 this weekend.
W had migraine last 2 days. Tried to be helpful by giving her water, and taking S1 to park to give her a little down time. Offered to pick up chocolate on way home the other day, she wanted chocolate ice cream, but checked freezer, and already had some. So I got a "NM we have already" out of that one. She still did dishes with migraine the night before, which impressed me. I cleaned S1 bottles in morning. Got a bland brotherly love response of "thanks for that" Noticed she was using the word "dude" a lot yesterday. So I busted her stones a little on it being the word of the day later on in person. She usually talks to her brother's that way, in that tone. I try to initiate texts like "hope you feel better today" I get "thank you's for washing S1 bottles" Advised her to drink more water and have a good day in text. Got a "Dude I have been, but thanks you too." Since she is Protestant and I am Catholic I Busted her chops, and told her "She should try drinking some holy water but she would probably burst into flames." "she replied that the holy water would burst into flames" I replied. " Only if you're Prodestant LOL"
Offered to pick up dinner yesterday since I wanted Pizza and hot wings. Another "thanks a lot" in friend zone type fashion. Interestingly enough when I got home, she was watching Couples Retreat, and we were both commentating and laughing at the funny parts that we remembered from seeing it several times before. I think we actually own the movie. Speaking of movies she boxed up all of her old movies last week, and put mine aside. Took a shower with S1. Had a convo about replenishing coconut milk right away for S1 even though we have plenty of regular milk. Everything with her parenting style now is over protective of S1, smothered with attention, and constant ILY's to S1 and everything with him has to be her way, which I don't, and won't always agree with. I just validate, and make it known that I understand she has her regiment with him, but mine or hers isn't always right or wrong, just different thinking, same regiment, with flexibility on my part. She wants to keep S1 on his regiment as far as giving him coconut milk. But I also typically say "He is not going to die if S1 drinks regular milk for one day." He's not lactose intolerant or has allergies. Just a matter of her preference which is fine IMO, I just allow a little more flexibility. Everything she says tries to undermine my parental abilities I just let it roll off my shoulders now without getting reactive, and I point out to her every time, that he is well considered for and cared for by me.
Went to bed and said goodnight. Will go grocery shopping tonight. (Grocery shopping another resentment of hers from past until IHS 4 months ago.) Now we split all responsibilities. When grocery shopping thing came up, amongst the other stupid resentment gripes, I stated I have been grocery shopping with you plenty of times before, and also I asked. Why didn't you ask me to come along every time after all these years, instead of building up resentment and assuming the role yourself, and being bitter about it? I can't mind read. Her typical response, or excuse to these types of things are that I have said in the past on certain divisions of labor, that I stated "That's not my job" since I took care of all the house repairs, cleaning of most of it ( in my mind, but not hers) and the yard. She's right there though. I have said that in the past. Division of labor has always been our issue even when we've gone to individual counseling for it together. But it still doesn't hurt to ask, I'm sure most H would be more accomdating to help if asked the right way. That's what most of these WAW'S don't understand. they expect us to read minds and just get it without being spoken to, and then they harbor up resentments and disappointments over the years, instead of specifically stating what they need. There are some things that you shouldn't have to ask, that a H should just do, but you don't go about addressing the problem by keeping it to yourself for years or nagging people about it.
Today in text I mentioned I was thinking about going to the drive-in this weekend, she said "that's funny she was thinking about the same thing last weekend." So she's on board with going.
I'm sure there are a lot of WAW'S that harbor resentment, give and give and give to the R, and feel like they don't get anything in return sometimes, because sometimes us men are sidetracked by life, or we are clueless. Or there isn't a balance of equal given take. But ladies you need to state such to your men, and instead of just nagging them about it, state to them specifically how it's affecting your relationship before its too little too late. I promise you they will definitely consider otherwise and make a change if presented properly.
I'm sure a lot of the LBS on here will at sometime get to that point where they realize that now the tides are turned, and our WAS' are now taking a lot more, acting a lot more selfish in convo, in thoughtfulness, in giving, etc. And they will eventually have to make a decision about whether what they're doing is serving them in return.
Now I seem to be the one who's trying to make good on all of my wrongs, do good and thoughtful things for the sake of being a better person, and try to be giving without expectations or reciprocation, or creating covert contracts, or being selfish and needy. Am I frustrated that I'm doing all the initiation now and getting little for it, or just breadcrumbs? You betcha. But I'm not pursuing a relationship (at least to their knowledge) and I'm just trying to live in the moment day by day hour by hour, be present, and see if it improves things.
Women and Men alike really need to learn the difference between conditional love and unconditional love, romantic love and whatnot Agape Love, etc. I read a journal entry of my wife's that was a year just after she broke up with her ex-boyfriend 13 years ago. About how she wanted love with no bounds or limits, and just wanted to be seen, heard, loved and understood. She's the one that went back and forth months, if not a year between whether she did the right thing, had a few crushes and dates during that time, according to her journal entries about how he should have did this and he needed to do that, get his life together, respond a certain way, do 180s on certain things, be more considerate, etc. she went back and forth between missing him and then staying strong and rejecting him. It gave me a lot of insight not only what went through her mind as well as most women's im sure. Well here we are 13 years later, and the husband (me) and family who she is separating from is under the same predicament. I wish most women would wise up, step away from the romatic fantasies, media, tv shows, and Disney movies, of how things should be, and realise they are flawed human beings, as well as our dealing with with flawed human beings that need forgiveness. Stop setting themselves up for disappointments, ditch some but not all of the expectations, be, think, and act in a Godly manner, accept themselves for who they are, faults and all, as well as their husbands, and vice versa. When they score keep, build up resentments, and disappointments, it hardened their hearts and the walls go up. Stop man bashing, and start loving from your heart, and not your ego. I'm sure a lot of the women on here seem to want to chase all these things in a man, especially unconditional love, but they never take the initiative, or do the work or make the changes, until they are seperated from the last person, looking for it in the next. THE TIME IS NOW! Not the slights, or offenses, or guilt from yesterday, or the uncertainty and fear or even promises of the future. The time is now to make a change.
Keep loving them even when they don't love you back, even if it means from a distance if necessary. But don't ever stop, because it can harden you.
I agree with you , the problem is we have been doing the wah for years and then expect them to instantly say I see you have changed, well done let’s go full on R
Steve85. Q.Q. i read in someone's post/sich that you believe 99% of WAW'S go WW. What is this based off of? All the sich's you've read on here over the years? How can you tell?
I have a bunch mine is about to turn. I don't have evidence since "Crush celebrity EA" back in Jan, but I see behavior starting to change more with smartphone, depression, ignoring, and isolation from W.
So? Who here had seen the movie Unfaithful?. Think I will "borrow it" from the W's video collection she boxed up, and watch it right in front of her this weekend. See what kind of reaction I get?...lol We both like Diane Lane and Richard Gere movies. At this point. Im happy no matter what. No matter which way this goes, or how artificially happy or depressed W gets. IDG2F's
Being present and mindful this last week, day by day, minute by minute so far has really put the goofiness and smiles back on my face, and taken my mind and worry off the past, and future outcomes. I highly suggest everyone try it. I was all shitz and giggles today for no reason at all maybe other than being Friday. Now I can see the stress on the W's face, and I almost feel sorry for her, but almost want to laugh and smile at it at the same time as needed messed up and arrogant as that sounds. She's flip flopping again about quitting her job at end of school year. Lol She hasn't changed, she just thinks she's changing. They think they know what they're doing, making these big life decisions, with their emotion. Its almost comical.
I really didn't mean sound heartless in my last post, just after months of asking if she's ok, validating, etc. Now that I come home present, happy for no reason, and upbeat, now I noticed she's depressed by facial expressions. Since I decided to watch a movie in the living room for a blue moon change on a Friday night, she had no fantasy escape other than her mind, our S1, and her phone, which i noticed she abruptly put down while texting after getting up and walking by her this evening. Even after I was done early in the evening i handed her the remote. She just shut off the TV and retreated to her room and her phone. I know im being presumptuous, but she's probably wondering why I'm so happy all of a sudden, and she's so unhappy and indecisive again.
Your question to Steve. Most WAW go WW because just like the LBS they fear the future (though they won't admit it) and it's easier to transition if they have someone waiting in the wings. The saying is a monkey won't let go of a branch until he has another branch in hand.
You still have way too many expectations and you doubt the process. Very few turn around right away. True recon takes years. Your W has made up her mind and most likely won't look back for a really long time.
I am really concerned about your attitude towards women I hope you are working on it in IC. Like it or not most WWs have valid points. Learn from your mistakes and make sure these mistakes never happen again.
Steve85. I had a thought this morning as soon as I woke up that's kind of bugging me. Come to think of it, this thought has been all throughout our marriage. Since you were the one that brought up covert contracts, maybe you can help me answer a question or two? It's about giving without expectation inside of a marriage.
One of the many reasons why I married my W almost 10 years ago, is because she was such a thoughtful and kind giver in a very understanding an intimate sense. She is like this with everyone, but when we were first dating even more so with me. I have been horrible with this all as of recently. But not intentionally. When I was younger before my wife my earlier 20s, and previous relationships I had more time, and more money and resources to think about thoyghtful gestures, and about these things and execute them. As I've gotten older, and more preoccupied, and more self-centered, I let my thoughtfulness and gift-giving fall by the wayside.
What I am trying to ask is. Is there a way to test someone if they are giving unconditionally, or are harboring resentments because you didn't give back the way our spouses expected us to?
I've realized how in some ways I have disappointed my W over the years in this area. I definitely have to work on being more thoughtful and considerate, but when I do get something whether it be my time my energy or just a gift. I do it without absolutely any expectations in return.
I cannot help but feel that she harbors resentments and disappontments not only to me, but other people, and family members as well, if she is not met with the same conditional consideration over time. Not only with gift giving, but people attending certain family occasions and missing them, without getting factual info on why they couldn't attend. For example she took it very personal when some of her family members couldn't attend our son's first birthday. Here is another recent example. She doesn't like my older brother, but my older brother was available to watch my S1 all week, when my MIL couldn't. Out of appreciation she went out and got him a gift card on a Sodastream. My brother loved the gift but he also recognized that she was just simply returning a favor, rather than giving unconditionally. She wouldn't have ever gone out of her way to get him a gift for anything, even for Christmas, and we both know this.
I think she feels she has given a lot of herself away over the years, and has been a people pleaser, who always does the right thing, but she doesn't seem to respect, or take an interest as to why other people act the way they do, or miss certain occasions, etc. I think she's going through a selfish phase now.
I guess you could call this conditional vs. unconditional love in a sense.
Just so I know for certained, and with clarity, who I am dealing with now. Can you think of any good examples on how to test this, or them? Conditional vs. Unconditional.
I'm hoping one day she realizes this. I cannot point it out to her, and like herself, I cannot wait around for her forever, hoping that she "will just get it" someday, like they expect of us. Keep in mind I have no expectations at this point, I'm just looking for some ideas on how to bench test this. If it doesn't work for me here I'm sure it'll work for me somewhere else in another relationship where I can get a good gauge on who I am dealing with.
LH19 yes I am familiar with the monkey branching effect. Or as I call it. The grasping of one hand before leaving another effect. Its not that I don't trust the process,...hmm... Ok maybe I do a little bit because I may not be applying somethings correctly, or inconsistently. In all truth I don't see too many recon success stories here or however, but the ones that have been, keep me hopefully.
Im not actually expecting recon for a few years, if at all. I don't have to have any certainty with that.I just want to live hour by hour day by day. I'm doing my best to remain unattached to her responses. Its the being ignored consistently part that WAS getting to me. It's not bothering me as much now, since I'm starting to get a sense of reclaiming myself and my self-worth.
Forgive me for my jadedness torwards women at times, it comes and goes with my moods. Sometimes I get a little arrogant myself, and I still have to catch myself. Im only human. I am sure all WW and WAS, have very valid points, and I do want to learn from them, and typically do when I am centered, humbled, and calm. The answers just come to me lately being more present actually. Ill try to maintain my humility more.Thanks
