Dealing with a complex MLC and/or Wayward Wife

[AnotherStander]

Okay new perspectives:
I’ve spent tonight reading No more Mr. Nice Guy! Now I’m debating just dropping my own bomb. Telling her how much she has hurt and betrayed me with this last incident. Tell her that I deserve much better and that I don’t really care that she feels violated because I snooped. I hope she gets the help that she needs for her and for our children. I know she will not find fullfillment in these relationships but apparently this is something she needs to find out on her own. I may be here when she is ready, or I may not. I’m going to take my time and space to work on me as well as working on moving on. I deserve better,

OK let's just put the "whoa" on all of this. Right now you are at the stage where you feel like things are spinning out of control and you are desperate to control things again. When it becomes clear that you can't "control" your W into coming back, then you decide you will just cut her off completely and BD her and possibly push for S or D. Please understand this is just more control and manipulation on your part. STOP! You REALLY need to step back, take a deep breath, center yourself and adjust to this new situation.

We always say it's a marathon because it IS a marathon. There is no shortcut that gets you straight to the end. You are in emotional turmoil and it takes time to process it and heal.

Do not confront her about this. Work on "you" and leave her alone for now. Take this journey of self-improvement and once you settle into your "new normal" THEN you can decide how to proceed.

[LH19]

PJ,

Below is a post I read a couples years ago that really made me understand what is going on. The poster's name is Accuray. Read through his threads because I believe he understands whats going on better then anybody.

Very sorry for what you've gone through here, it's heartbreaking. You've done some things very well and handled the initial situation as well as can be expected. More recently however you're falling into a very familiar pattern that leads to a long period of pain and limbo.

Being in this situation is like dying of thirst floating on a raft in a poison lake. Everyone will tell you not to drink the water, and why you shouldn't drink the water and what will happen to you if you drink the water. You can intellectually understand what they're saying, you "get it", you can convince yourself that you're not going to drink the water, but each night when you go to sleep and each morning when you wake up, you're thirsty as hell and the water is right there, so it's extremely easy to convince yourself that a little sip can't hurt. Despite the fact that you know you should not drink the water, you will just keep doing it because you keep convincing yourself it’s okay to do so because you're just dying of thirst.

So how do we bring that to your scenario? There is really only one prescription and that is to take the focus off of W entirely and focus only on you, your life, and what you want from it. Your learnings about what you need to improve about yourself are an asset you take with you, but everything else about W, what W is doing, what W is thinking, etc. needs to be entirely put aside.

You are not safe for her to approach until she feels you've let her go. That's a simple truth, but incredibly hard to accept.

Reaching out to W, making overtures, contacting W's family, talking to OM's W, snooping on W, this is all "drinking the poison water"

Why are you doing it? Why are you so obsessed with W? You were in a relationship with a woman who wasn't meeting your needs, who would irrationally blame you for anything that went wrong, and then cheated on you and lied to you. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?

The reason is that you are grasping to re-establish a feeling of control over your life.

When W dropped the bomb she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.

That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling!

You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.

Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.

With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.

You're dying of thirst (feeling out of control), and pursuing W is drinking the water out of the poison lake. You think it will satisfy your thirst each time you do it, but really it's just making you sicker.

We will tell you "don't drink the water!" Intellectually you'll agree, but the water is always there and logically it seems that drinking it is the shortest path to no longer being thirsty.

Instead, you need to paddle your ass to the shore, leave the raft behind, and get a drink somewhere else.

That's not code for having your own affair or finding a new woman to have a relationship with. It has to do with finding an authentic way to rebuild your feeling of being in control, controlling your own destiny and getting your mojo back.

If you take the focus off of W *completely* she will notice. That will give her space to breathe, and to think. That's the only way these things turn around -- the ONLY way.

Don't drink the water. I know its right there. Don't drink it.
There is really only one prescription and that is to take the focus off of W entirely and focus only on you, your life, and what you want from it. Your learnings about what you need to improve about yourself are an asset you take with you, but everything else about W, what W is doing, what W is thinking, etc. needs to be entirely put aside.

[P_Jam]

AS & LH,
Thank you so much for the 'leveling'. I get what you are saying and just as you posted, I fully get it logically. I was feeling a bit inspired last night from NMMNG and wanted to directly 'face my fears', as well as be more direct. Although this might be something I need to do, now is not necessarily the time. So, I will take other steps. As of tomorrow no more snooping. I'm done. It only hurts anyway, and clearly is just a form of trying to control.

It may not sound like it here as I post, but I do believe i'm making positive steps in regards to detachment. I know I'm not detached, but I do know what I need to do and I'm making baby steps to get there. It is difficult when she is still in the house everyday (knowing she is moving out in 3 weeks). She is still very 'normal'. Nice to me, does the laundry, picks up the house, deals with the kids and some dinner. It's weird cause it's normal - but it's not normal. I/we are cordial and polite actually have some small talk but I focused 100% on my book last night as well as the kids. I"m doing relatively well with GAL. I had a life before this (part of my W's frustration and BD). One of my newer close friends is actually buying the house across the street from me and moves in a week after my W moves out. Going to be great local support. I'm going out with this same group tonight for my B-day (without my W and I know her not being invited has tugged on her heart a little) <-- not that I should care about this.

I have a hobby that I deeply love and will be focusing on that significantly (golf) I"m a member of a club so it will be easy to stay busy there when I don't have the kids. I'm going on a week long golf trip the last week in March. I'm back in the gym and have lost 40lbs in the past year so I'm already looking/feeling better in this regard. My friend moving across the street has already been D'd in the past and knows what I'm going through so he has really helped keep me busy. In short GAL is not really my problem. Once shes' gone I will have more time to fill but already have projects planned for the house. - I just need to let go of her!!!

There are few things that still "bother" me in regards to my sitch if I handled it correctly or not. Would love your opinion(s) in regards to any other steps I might be able take (Probably not cause I can't focus on her) - but I also need to be prepared for certain conversations when they come up (cause they will come up before she moves out).

Here is a little summary:

1. I caught one of her PA's
2. She denied it was PA only EA and 'ended it'
3. I confirmed it was PA confronted her - and admitted to my own PA 2years ago (asking to rebuild the M)
4. She turned it around on my for snooping/bugging and lying for 2yrs. And never really took any responsibility/accountability for her actions
5. She said she wanted to move out because of the bugging (did not feel safe) this was essentially the real BD
6. I begged pleaded to work on this without moving out. I tried to give her space in the house but felt we were in limbo and did not like that she was not working on the relationship (this all before finding this site).
7. I then confirmed another PA with a random 1 night stand. Did not confront her about it, but then asked her to move out within 30 days. This is essentially where we are now. I think I made the right step in asking her to move out. Not only to create a 'loss' for her, but I believe that I would probably be better with this type of separation instead of IHS (but not sure how confident I am in that statement now that she is moving out). More importantly by not explaining exactly why I asked her to move out, I'm not sure I got the full benefit. Which is part of the reason I wanted to BD again last night.

So.. thoughts? We have roughly agreed on numbers for the separation. 50/50 with the kids. I give her a lump sum transition money, as well as a little child support monthly (because I make more). I'm the only one with an attorney so she doesn't fully trust me. She will need to sign away all rights to other assets for the lump sum payment. She is already aware of this but it might get more complicated when the legal documents are actually presented to her. I also think she might ask for more child support. So.. my point is - there will be other necessary conversations that come up. Does her last PA that I know about come into play at all during ANY of this? Or do you suggest this is all withheld until the future when I'm more centered? I know I need to take the focus off her but there is still the necessary goal explained by Sandy2 about needing to create 'losses' to the WW. <-- this is what I want to maximize as much as possible before she is out of the house. But obviously not to the detriment of my overall situation. So please provide any advice.

[LH19]

PJ,

I would table the second PA until if/when you think about reconciling. What does it matter at this point? It will just show her you are still deeply attached and give her another reason to accuse you of snooping/spying.

You made the right step by asking her to move out. It will be a lot easier for you to detach. She has to choose to want to be with you. Time and space are the only thing that turn these sitches around long-term.

[P_Jam]

Thanks LH. I think you suggestion make sense. No need to rush, it doesn't really make a difference and I probably have some incentive to try and hurt her with the information (guilt) and no matter how she responds it will never feel as good as I think..

Question: based on the current sitch.. how should my communication/relationship be with her? Obviously, I'm hurting like hell inside (some of it deserved anger) but because she continues to be nice and make some moves 'towards' me. Do I mirror her? Of course I do not pursue - but should I continue to be 'distant' but polite? Or do I soften as she softens. Really weird trying to manage this - considering she does't know I know and/or doesn't really feel that much guilt for what is hurting me.. IT would be easier if she was rude and distant to me like other sitches...

[LH19]

Obviously, I'm hurting like hell inside (some of it deserved anger) but because she continues to be nice and make some moves 'towards' me.

Can you give me some examples on how you perceive her making moves towards you.

Do I mirror her? Of course I do not pursue - but should I continue to be 'distant' but polite? Or do I soften as she softens.

Distant but polite is always a good way to go.

Really weird trying to manage this - considering she does't know I know and/or doesn't really feel that much guilt for what is hurting me.. IT would be easier if she was rude and distant to me like other sitches...

Why do you think it would be easier if she was rude or distant?

[P_Jam]

Can you give me some examples on how you perceive her making moves towards you.

She's wanting to hug every now and then, and in general she is acting 'normal'. Maybe I answered my own question.. Even if not on purpose..its probably still a form of cake eating. As she still loves me but sees me as option B instead of option A. So it can be a little confusing for me when I want her back. But in reality I think I just need to make the next couple of weeks as pleasant as possible. Keep my distance (emotionally) get through the moving out transition and after time/space I figure out how/when to start to deal with whatever happens.

Do I mirror her? Of course I do not pursue - but should I continue to be 'distant' but polite? Or do I soften as she softens.

Distant but polite is always a good way to go.

got it.

Really weird trying to manage this - considering she does't know I know and/or doesn't really feel that much guilt for what is hurting me.. IT would be easier if she was rude and distant to me like other sitches...

Why do you think it would be easier if she was rude or distant?
[/quote]

I guess I just mean that it wouldn't be as confusing... Probably denial but I still see so much hope and potential in 'us' and the situation. I can see through the fog, at least for her I can. (or maybe it's denial). There might also be a bit of arrogance. I know I have some things to work on for myself so that I can be a better H - but as of now I firmly believe that even with the history she is giving up something VERY good. Admittedly we are here because she was not happy, and I have a lot to do with that, but not as much as she has to do with being responsible for her own happiness And I believe she's very confused right on on what she wants. I'm not convinced she's going to enjoy 'girls gone wild' at 45 with 2 young kids for very long. So it feels like her awaking is not far away. <-- I probably need to stop thinking like this, but it doesn't feel like I"m really denying. In my gut it feels like she will be back. A couple of falls in fantasy land and she'll realize.

Okay, enough rationalizing - I'm probably also in withdrawal... I have turned off ALL access to any snooping as of yesterday. It's done. Met with IC yesterday and going to be working on exercises from No More Mr. Nice Guy. Finished that book 2 days ago and I felt like I was reading a book about myself... got some work to-do but at least I know where to focus now.

Thanks for contributing to me and my thread, and thanks for listening.

PJ

[LH19]

She's wanting to hug every now and then, and in general she is acting 'normal'. Maybe I answered my own question.. Even if not on purpose..its probably still a form of cake eating. As she still loves me but sees me as option B instead of option A.

Yep she's cake eating. The quicker you display through actions that you are not anybody's fuching Plan B the quicker this may turn around. Picture her walking a tight rope and you removing the net underneath.

Admittedly we are here because she was not happy, and I have a lot to do with that, but not as much as she has to do with being responsible for her own happiness

Yep. But unfortunately she has to figure that out on her own.

I believe she's very confused right on on what she wants.

I disagree. I don't think she is confused at all. She knows what she wants right now. Can that change down the road?Absolutely.

I'm not convinced she's going to enjoy 'girls gone wild' at 45 with 2 young kids for very long. So it feels like her awaking is not far away.

From what I read it typically takes 18 to 24 months minimum for that to happen.

In my gut it feels like she will be back. A couple of falls in fantasy land and she'll realize.

I said the same thing. I am 8 months in and though my ex is starting to show cracks in the foundation she has not tried to reconcile.

I have turned off ALL access to any snooping as of yesterday. It's done. Met with IC yesterday and going to be working on exercises from No More Mr. Nice Guy. Finished that book 2 days ago and I felt like I was reading a book about myself... got some work to-do but at least I know where to focus now.

This is all good stuff! You are heading in the right direction.

Thanks for contributing to me and my thread, and thanks for listening.

You're welcome! I am glad to help.

[P_Jam]

LH,
You've been here a while.. how do I find your original thread to read about your sitch?

[LH19]

PJ,

I didn't post much on my situation. Been here for 4 plus years. Read 100s if stories and 95% of them follow the same script. I would be happy to answer any questions regarding my sitch.