Embracing my Inner Me in progress

[Grace21]

So maybe just continue to work on releasing thoughts about Him and his activities

Yes. I need to be more diligent in practicing this. But, I also know I’m my own worst enemy, and have to resist the urge to snoop in phone records and look at FB. I found out some pretty heavy things about H through my snooping on the internet, and in a way I regret knowing about them. I don’t know if I will EVER be able to get over them if he ever expresses desire to R. I’m not sure I even want to at this point.

I’m having more and more thoughts on speaking to him about a D, too. It’s all so confusing. Not quite ready, but doing lots of prep stuff “just in case”.

Anyway, my D19 messaged me yesterday and said she was homesick. She will be home in 2 weeks for the summer, and I will spend 2 days over Easter with her and D21 at their college. Anyway, we then talked on the phone for quite a long while.

She mentioned that her and S21 asked their dad if he could come for a visit this weekend. She said he couldn’t because he had an out of town gig. (He does, I verified from FB). We chatted briefly about them communicating much. She said no, that he didn’t seem interested. That he is not really responsive to her messages. (That’s a shortened version, as I don’t recall her exact words). I don’t think she hardly ever did message him, but obviously the few times she did she got a clear message from him. BROKE MY HEART!

I briefly shared that I thought dad was in a bad place, but didn’t expand too much, and that he really doesn’t communicate with me either. I then shared that I was so happy that her and I are so close, and that I loved her so much. That our relationship made me so happy. She said the same. She was upbeat about that. We talked for quite a while after that about just everyday stuff. We do usually message several times a day, and talk a few times a week. We share pictures, recipes, and are planning several activities for the summer. What else would one need to feel joy?

H is really missing out on a relationship with 2 great kids. He THINKS his relationship with them is “pretty good”. In reality, it’s almost non-existent. It’s sad.

A friend thinks I should tell H what D19 shared with me – that she doesn’t think her dad is interested in her. I’m thinking I should probably say nothing, and let things unfold themselves. What do you think, folks?

So, the days pass, I try to keep busy, and continue to work on, and make plans for, improvements in the house “in case” I rent a room someday. Heck, it will help show the house if it goes for sale too someday, so the improvements are a win-win no matter what.

Boot camp tonight, Bunko tomorrow. No plans for the weekend, but I just might work on those dresses for the mission trip and paint a room instead of going out.

Life is good.

[DnJ]

Hello Grace

You are correct, you need to resist the urge to snoop. However, that is very difficult, maybe this will help.

Resisting the urge. Ignoring, dismissing, etc... all are attempting to stop what you are feeling, to stop that desire to understand, to seek information, to answer questions. We just cannot stop our feelings. However, we can stop feeding them.

So, instead of a head on resisting, realize your desires, your feelings, and accept them. It’s totally understandable to want further information, to see how he is doing, what he is doing.

Now, Grace, you control you! You decide if you are going to snoop, going to reinforce those feelings. You know the regrets you can find, the knowledge you don’t want or need floating around in your head. You control your actions.

Block him on Facebook. Use technology to help you. You are a strong woman, a strong person, show me your control, h3ll show yourself your control.

Get in that intellectual car for a while and keep your emotions out of this. You know anything you find out is suspect, is not really who he was, and in time will not even matter. There is already lots to overcome and you don’t need to add to the pile.

I don’t know if I will EVER be able to get over them if he ever expresses desire to R. I’m not sure I even want to at this point.

Be careful with your thoughts, they have a way of turning into beliefs.

It is good you are expressing your feelings and thoughts, concerns, desires, and such. However we do talk ourself into things. “don’t know if I will EVER be able to” will become just that, the inability to get over them. You are expecting to not be able to accomplish it. Expectation. Deadlines. Be careful. (I remember you writing in your journey about this)

I totally understand the uncertainty you face, and the unknowingness of it. Do you want to be able to get over it, move pass it, forgive it? I believe you do.

Try - I hope I can accept and get over this, if he wants to have a R or not. Better? A bit, not quite right is it.

I know I can overcome this. That’s the ticket. Don’t doubt yourself, I certainly don’t doubt you.

I think you know accepting, and forgiving, is for you, and not dependent upon a possible future R. You don’t want to carry this around forever, so of course you want to let it go. Ok, enough from me on the letting him go.

MLCers and their children. They do not make great parents. They do believe they do, even when the relationship is almost nonexistent.

The relationship between Dad and daughter is their’s. It is not your job to fix it. It is your job not to destroy it.

I would not share with H what daughter said. I agree with you, let things unfold on their own. H cannot handle any blame, especially from you. He would probably just end up blaming the children, blaming you, and getting mad about the whole thing. That’s basically what happened when I tried to explain to my W about the relationship with her and the kids.

He will use that conversation as justification. He will use the lack of communication as justification. He will use the phases of the moon as justification. He is going to do whatever it takes, regardless of how irrational it is, to justify his actions. He has to, he has to run.

How much have you discussed MLC with your kids? Explained the why Dad is behaving like he is?

For what it’s worth, I found my kids benefitted from the knowledge and understanding. They see the driven need for their Mom to abandon everything. They can identify her teenage self acting out. They have compassion and forgiveness. They have hope. Well, they have me, and I am a pretty hopeful guy.

Anyhow, today I was talking with S18, and after 18 months, Mom is starting to reach out to her children. He told me of her texts and his polite responses. She is just starting, just after D. I told him I was glad, I really want them to have Mom in their lives. She has been absent for a year and a half, so we will see if this continues.

Time and space. H needs it. He will reach out when he is able to. Have faith. Have hope.

DnJ

[Grace21]

I ask myself why I feel so compelled to snoop. First, I think I’m just addicted to it. I need to detox and go cold turkey. Also, I am a fixer, and with that comes control. So, perhaps subconsciously I think that if I “find” something, I’ll be able to do something about it. But, that is wrong thinking. I don’t, and probably will never, do anything about the information I gathered. *sigh* I’ll go cold turkey and see what happens.

There is already lots to overcome and you don’t need to add to the pile.

Truth. I know so much about Hs history now, while being married to me. It’s amazing to me I’m not trying to ruin him right now, or hate him. I’m doing neither. I’m hurt, and maybe even incredulous. How can anyone do that? What’s the point of piling on more things to deal with or forgive. It just hurts me, and why would I want to do that to myself? Something to ponder.

I totally understand the uncertainty you face, and the unknowingness of it. Do you want to be able to get over it, move pass it, forgive it? I believe you do.

I do want this, very, very much. I have to realize that I need to do this on my own. That H can’t help me with it. I want a sincere, heartfelt apology for all the wrongs throughout the years. And not laden with his “reasons” or excuses. The few times he did apologize they were laden with “reasons” and excuses, always related to not getting what he needed from me. I’m a bit bitter about that, I won’t lie.

I need to realize the sincere apology will probably never come, unless he is able to open his heart to God, and His grace, love and mercy.

I know I can overcome this. That’s the ticket. Don’t doubt yourself, I certainly don’t doubt you.

Mind over matter, right? I’m not sure if it’s doubting myself. I think I just might be getting sick of the limbo. I want to plan, know the outcome. Get on with life. But, I also realize I can get on with life and still be married, if only just on paper (maybe especially if it’s only on paper). This is what I need to remind myself of.

I’ve got to get out of this funk. As soon as I have 2 or 3 or a week worth of good days, I backtrack and obsess, feel sorry for myself. May that’s the time to call the kids, my sister, a friend. Just to chit chat. Remind myself of all the people in my life that I’m close to.

I WILL overcome.

I WILL accept what cannot be changed and what I have no control over.

I thought I had forgiven, but maybe not quite there yet. I WILL find a place of forgiveness, with God’s help.

I would not share with H what daughter said. I agree with you, let things unfold on their own. H cannot handle any blame, especially from you. He would probably just end up blaming the children, blaming you, and getting mad about the whole thing.

So true. When I found out about H hooking up with OW again, he blamed ME. It sounds so stupid repeating it now. I threw him out (didn’t), and showed no concern over his health, so he reached out to her. Blah, blah, blah. He also said that I would be the one to ruin his relationship with the kids if I told them about OW (I only said I would IF he moved in with her). And that I wouldn’t lie to the kids about where he was living. So, I will stay out of his relationship with the kids completely.

How much have you discussed MLC with your kids? Explained the why Dad is behaving like he is?

No. Never mentioned it. I’m not even sure it is a MLC, in light of all his philandering throughout the years and lack of emotional intimacy. I suppose it could have morphed into an MLC. Maybe probably. How would I begin? Does it need a label? Is that helpful?

I worry that my D21 will go straight to H and tell him what I said. He’s I think burying his head in the sand about everything. He has Asperber’s, and doesn’t take change/disappointment too well. So, there’s that.

Advice on approach might be helpful. They never really ask me about H. I’ll see them next weekend, though. At least they have me, their rock.

Time and space. H needs it. He will reach out when he is able to. Have faith. Have hope.

I’ll try DnJ. Thanks.

[kml]

Hmmm....your H has Asperger's and he was a philanderer? That's a really unusual combination - usually Aspies are loyal to a fault.

[Grace21]

Hmmm....your H has Asperger's and he was a philanderer? That's a really unusual combination - usually Aspies are loyal to a fault.

No, my son has Asperger's. Although My H mentioned a few times throughout the years that he wondered if he had Aspie tendencies too. But I don't think he he is on the spectrum. And I am very familiar with it as I also worked in special ed for a while.

[DnJ]

Hello Grace

It is very hard to let go. And the desire to find something that you could maybe fix, or explain, or help with, to wake him up is really engrained in us after such a long term relationship.

I’ll go cold turkey and see what happens.

That’s the way to do it.

There is a definite addiction and withdrawl from a long term relationship. This is no easy thing to “get over”. Your mind is craving what it once had, screaming for it. You need to fight it, and I mean “fight”. You are fighting your very mind.

Every stroll down memory lane, looking at pictures, snooping, etc... all pull you back. Cold turkey! Until you aren’t so attached or adicited.

It does take some time, and a whole lot of will power. Put an elastic band around your wrist, not tight don’t want you to cut off your circulation. Then everytime you want to snoop, snap that elastic band. That will provide some immediate feedback and conditioning, it will help with those desires to peek.

You do have weapons in this fight. Logic and reason will slowly overcome the emotional pull and will allow those feelings to flit away.


I like your reflection regarding forgiveness, and your desire to find it. Compassion and understanding are key.

You are correct you need to do it on your own, H cannot help you with it. His poor apologies understandably made you bitter.

So, something to consider. H cannot make you feel anything, no one can. You make you feel. You are in control. Really.

His half-assed apologizes touched a nevre, pushed a button, and you reinforced the feeling.

I need to realize the sincere apology will probably never come, unless he is able to open his heart to God, and His grace, love and mercy.

Yes, if H would only open his heart to the grace, love, and mercy - much would be different - for him.

What about you? Would that help you find forgiveness? Would an apology really make a difference?

I need to realize the sincere apology will probably may never come...

You don’t need an apology.

Forgiveness is for you. Absolutely! It frees you from vengeance, anger, hatred, it is such a shift in perception.

Open your heart to His grace, love, and mercy - much will be different - for you. (((Grace)))

I thought I had forgiven, but maybe not quite there yet.

No, there are a lot of layers to forgiveness. You are there. Read what you wrote.

Thoughts come and go, so does the forgiveness. Thoughts influence feelings. Forgiving thoughts create forgiving feelings. Forgiveness starts intellectually. Keep at it. Thoughts and feelings influence beliefs, values, convictions.

After a while, you don’t think you forgive, or feel forgiveness - You BELIEVE forgiveness. That doesn’t come and go, or flit away.

Beliefs, the spiritual car, it is thankfully slow to change. It influences and affects everything about you, nurture it well.

Mind over matter, right?

Yes, mind over matter. Our mind creates our reality. It is incredibly straightforward once you see it.

I’m not sure if it’s doubting myself. I think I just might be getting sick of the limbo. I want to plan, know the outcome. Get on with life.

Patience. Dig deep. Limbo can be a bit of a slog. However, you know your entire life is not on hold.


Oh my, the blame the H projected on to you to justify his affair. Blah, blah, blah indeed. And his threat about if you tell you will ruin his relationship with the kids. Whatever, his actions are doing that. Stick to the truth Grace. If kids ask direct question, you can answer directly. They are old enough and deserve the truth if they seek it.

How much have you discussed MLC with your kids? Explained the why Dad is behaving like he is?

No. Never mentioned it. I’m not even sure it is a MLC, in light of all his philandering throughout the years and lack of emotional intimacy. I suppose it could have morphed into an MLC. Maybe probably. How would I begin? Does it need a label? Is that helpful?

I worry that my D21 will go straight to H and tell him what I said. He’s I think burying his head in the sand about everything. He has Asperber’s, and doesn’t take change/disappointment too well. So, there’s that.

Advice on approach might be helpful. They never really ask me about H. I’ll see them next weekend, though. At least they have me, their rock.

I do see your point about S21, and you are probably right about him going to H, you do know your son after all.

It is interesting how every situation is similar and yet a bit different. My situation required explainations for the kids. The way Mom blew everything up and ran off; there were a lot of questions, a lot of discussion.

Your S21 and D19 are not asking about Dad. That may be ok. I am sure they have, or had, questions. Perhaps they already have answers.

My approach was to be honest and open. My kids, like your’s, are young adults and age appropriate doesn’t really limit things - appropriate is the direction for conversations. No demonizing, or backstabbing, or badmouthing, etc... kids are 50% from each parent. They already wonder if this is going to befall them too.

A label is helpful, and IMO needed. We all, children included, categorize and classify. The label MLC is accurate and better than cheater or worse. The term MLC brings a much needed explaination for the bizarre behaviour, brings understanding and compassion, allows one to see the sick person wracked in crisis, illustrates the crisis is only about the MLCer, alleviates the self blame (especially for teenagers and young adults), and gives a framework to find forgiveness for the MLCer and one’s self.

If your kids are not asking questions, I would just ensure they know they can ask you anything. That is also my answer to “How would I begin?”.

I’m not even sure it is a MLC...

WAS, MLC, or something else. The LBS path is pretty much the same at this point.

You know there is no clinical diagnostic testing for determining if it is MLC or not. The best diagnosis come from you, the LBS, the one who knows them best. You knew H, for years, and were completely shocked at what he has become. He has rewritten his past, don’t rewrite your’s.

Like most of my advice, find your beliefs. The uncertainty of thoughts and feelings towards - is it really MLC. Get to where you believe it is, where you are sure it is.

Quash your doubts. Have faith in MLC. Have faith in yourself.

Faith can move mountains, and doubt can create them.

Have faith.

DnJ

[Grace21]

Thanks for the feedback, DnJ. I have a follow-up question. I have no "proof" that H is seeing OW regularly, whether she is staying with him most of the time, or if they hardly see each other at all. So, what if I do get in a conversation with the kids about MLC, and they ask about an OW. S21 did in fact want to know if H was having an affair when I told them he moved out. At that time I truthfully told them I didn't think so. But now? I usually respond to pointed questions from them about H with "you will have to ask him that".

[job]

I would suggest that you be honest w/them. You don't know if the W is still in the picture or if they are seeing each other regularly. I would suggest that they ask their father about that.

[DnJ]

Be honest. You don’t need to speculate to try to come up with an answer. If you don’t know, that’s ok. As job suggests, they can ask their father directly.

If your children are like mine, they do sometimes get into speculation, what ifs, and possible scenarios. It is good to explore these, with the understanding on everyone’s part that it is not fact. A possible upcoming wedding of XW and OM was one such recent discussion over here. If such an announcement was to happen, we all have a head start.

[peacetoday]

Hi Grace

How are you?
My kids were younger at bomb drop time so it never came up for years
finally I did tell them he was remarried..
I guess because mine were 5 and 11 years old- they never seemed too concerned about what their dad was up to and they let him totally go

They only cared that I was here for them-acting strong and taking care of everything
Honesty is best and I always said a positive word about their dad-
he was a good man- just got sick in MLC..no ones fault ect
For us it worked-