A familiar story with questions NINE

[RR17]

Sooo, you're telling me to move out and formalize a separation? Am I hearing you correctly?

[LH19]

Sooo, you're telling me to move out and formalize a separation? Am I hearing you correctly?

R,

Like a good counselor, I am not here to tell you what to do just to look at your options and give my opinion.

Everything Acc wrote one and a half years ago still rings true. She has zero motivation to make your R work. Right now she is taking the path of least resistance while still keeping her options open.

Assuming nothing changes and IMO I don't think it will anytime soon. What are your options?

1. You live like you are now continuing to 180, and GAL and maybe she comes around. Maybe another OM comes along and she Bs you again. Maybe she never comes around but a friendship and security are good enough at this point in your life.
2. You file for D or full blown separation. She thanks you for doing the work for her and moves on and you co-parent together. You realize that living alone is 100 times better then living in limbo. She panics and fears losing you and now has motivation to work on the relationship. She figures out after D that the grass isn't greener and wants to recon but at this point you have moved on.

Time for MY opinion:

I have lived in limbo and it was once described on the board as "soul sucking" and that is how it felt. I am now divorced live alone and have my kids 50% of the time. I am 1,000 times happier then when I was in limbo. As Acc said, I don't completely regret it because I lived with my kids for another 2.5 years full time. Having said that, I will NEVER again in my life try to be a relationship with someone doesn't want to be with me.

[RR17]

I am well aware of my options.

[Yail]

I really wish I could figure out how to credit posters in the quotes.

RR17 - the trick is in typing "=name" within the first quote bracket. I'm going to type what it would look like below, but use the correct [ ] instead of the () I use in my example below.

(quote=RR17) Quote goes here (/quote)

Hope that makes sense?

[RR17]

RR17 - the trick is in typing "=name" within the first quote bracket. I'm going to type what it would look like below, but use the correct [ ] instead of the () I use in my example below.

(quote=RR17) Quote goes here (/quote)

Hope that makes sense?

Thanks Yall

[RR17]

So W returns from her business trip last night. She is worn out and without doing the math, I asked if the jet lag + time change worked in her favor or against it. While explaining it, W stopped and asked why the look on my face. I said no look. I was trying to make sure she was done talking. I have a history of mistaking your "commas" as periods and just wanted to make sure you were done talking before I speak. W accepted it and I went to bed.
This morning after driving carpool W comes into MBR to tell me she is going into work but that she didn't know how long it would last. I responded "Are you really that beat?" to which she went into a defensive explanation of what all she did and reasons why she was so tired. 25,000 steps each day, long hours etc. All the things that I was unaware of.
I asked why she was so defensive? That I was unaware of the reasons so I inquired.
W said it was the look on my face. And that she wasn't out late parting every night. That's where I stopped her. I said "I never accused you of those things." and if you misread my facial expressions, it is beyond my control.
Well, this leads to a discussion about how whether or not another person can make you feel a certain way.
I'm sure you can guess how that went.
During this discussion, I asked "Is it possible that you misread the look on my face based on things I said before you left on the trip. In her hurt look, she said yes.
I told her that I was sharing concerns and that even though I truly want her to be happy, that I sometimes still felt the threat. BesidesI wasn't telling her something that she didn't already suspect. You do not get to restore trust without doing the things necessary to restore trust.
She just stares.
It is obvious that she wants to lob a grenade and walk off as usual.
I said, "Wait a second, do you see the dynamic here?" "If anything, I didn't feel suspicious until you became defensive for, what I feel, is unjustified reasons." "I have accused you of nothing."
Well, she looked defeated.

Anyway, she left for work. I am the bad guy because of the look on my face. Sure wish she would own her own feelings. Sure wish people didn't expect results without doing the required work.

[SteveLW]

RR, I know you've had a tough go of it. I know you've struggled with the idea of giving up, vs. continuing to try. I get all of that.

However, I wonder if your exasperation with your sitch and ongoing limbo doesn't creep into your "expressions". Women are masters at reading body language, that is why manipulation doesn't work well with our Ws. They will detect it. They can gauge insincerity like a lie detector test.

So take the valuable information she gave you and use it as an improvement opportunity. Try to control your expressions. I know that is hard. But I had to do the same thing. RR I feel like you've always struggled with detachment. When you aren't detached emotionally then your feelings will come out in your body language and she will pick up on it.

RR, I know you know all of this stuff. You've been at this for a long time. But I feel like you've never really been able to drop the rope completely. And she feels that.

[RR17]

Steve, I know what you are saying about most women. But not all.

I assure you that my W is no masters at reading body language. Over the years, I have picked up on nuances with the kids, others, that she misses. She admits this. Somehow she missed out on the skill of reading social queues.
Now, I do believe that she is looking for signs of my suspicion surrounding this trip. This is IMO a symptom of her personal shame. Not so much my actions. She is more sensitive to my expressions because I told her before she went that I struggled with the idea. You don't get to be trusted without doing the work to restore trust. Doesn't this seem possible?

Baby, I've had the poker face. I've only spoken to her twice and I was intentional in my expression. Perhaps the poker face was suspicious. Still, I refuse to take responsibility for her shame.

It is really easy to judge one's level of detachment in these threads when the poster is honest. I admit my mistakes. I dought many here do. I do it to document mistakes and hopefully not repeat them. Besides I have nothing to hide. I could shape the narrative to make readers believe whatever I want them to. You already admitted I know the stuff. I simply don't see the point.

Besides, I'm kind of done changing. I will wait her out until I get completely fed up and then I will go.

Steve no one ever drops the rope completely unless they give up and stop trying.

[SteveLW]

RR, obviously you know here better than I do!

Not sure I agree on the last point. I think some have dropped the rope completely, and to great effect. I remember dropping the rope in my sitch and it was a freeing experience. It is funny, more often than not, those that truly drop the rope, are surprised at how the WAS comes towards them instead of away from them. I guess it is all part of the pursuit-distance dynamic.

Good point on the honesty in relation to other posters gauging detachment. I think people's posting does offer insight, no question. You see those that are laser-focused on the WAS comings and goings. And words and deeds. But true we typically come here to discuss our sitches so it isn't always true that because I post so much about her that I am not detached from her. Then there are those that post and you can feel the raw emotional pain and anxiety oozing from them.

Anyway, hang in there RR. Your sitch has been churning longer that most. Your patience through all of this has been exemplary.

[RR17]

Thanks for the compliments.

Not sure I agree on the last point. I think some have dropped the rope completely, and to great effect. I remember dropping the rope in my sitch and it was a freeing experience. It is funny, more often than not, those that truly drop the rope, are surprised at how the WAS comes towards them instead of away from them. I guess it is all part of the pursuit-distance dynamic.

I think it depends on one's definition of dropping the rope. At times I have moved farther away and yes W does move closer. W moves closer and I try to respond positively to her actions. Perhaps I need to continue to move away.
My problem is after being in limbo for so long when I see results, I gain expectations. I have also obviously grown tired and even knowing that expressing my feelings to her is not DB protocol, I feel the need to let her know. Call it self-care. It is not often, but I am human. ( like telling her that I was uncomfortable regarding her trip)

I honestly believe there are 2 separate dynamics involved.
The physical acts of dropping the rope and the ultimate act of giving up on this person. Both you and I have discussed un-enmeshment. I believe I have made major strides in this area. W and I are both two separate people. 99% of the time I don't let her actions affect my well being. Boundaries
When I do slip, I post it here. I have become so consistent that I don't share my well-executed interactions, only my failures.
I see a whole lot of improvement on her part. She listens to understand and when I communicate effectively she shows an effort to meet my needs. This is huge. I really don't think she does it to avoid making waves as LH19 has suggested. I think she is trying in her own stubborn way.