I has been couple months, since we have been living in separate rooms. We had been together for 18 years, no kids On December 9th I asked what was going on with her. I felt like she was spending more and more time by herself and did not want to spend with me or our friends. She was very secretive and I asked how she felt about our relationship and she could not answer. I had a bad feeling that she was cheating and started to pay more attention to her whereabouts. She stopped wearing wedding band probably since the beginning of November. On 12/26/18 She said she went to Nordstrom store. I tracked her phone and confirmed that she was in residential area and meeting a guy and having sex. Once she came back from his place I confronted her and she admitted that she saw him couples times. The guy is 10 years younger at first she said it just a fling. For couple weeks since then I have been a mess, however I quickly decided that I needed help and called therapist and started my healing process. I started reading divorce busting and researching how to communicate and work thru this. I stopped bothering her, gave her space and time. We would just say to each other good morning and good night and maybe some polite conversation. i was reading about boundaries and asked her not to use our house for affair resources. Today 02/09 I said that i felt being disrespected, by her continuing this affair. I asked why she haven't come to me sooner to talk about our problems and she said that she was a coward. I stated that I might live couple more month like this and said she might need to move out. I said sometime people need to spend time seperatly .Couple of my friends know of this, they helped me a lot. we haven' told family or any other of our friends. . I had been spending a lot of time outside with friends going to a dance class, gym. I had been on my best behavior, however I am not sure if there is a chance on this anymore.
Sorry you are going through such a tough thing. However, welcome to the board, there are a lot of good people here to help. Read and read some more.
Most of what you will find here is about you, not your W. Digging deep,inside you and fixing those things to make yourself a better person. Being on your best behavior won't change much. Not saying to be intentionally rude or mean, however 'being nicer' won't do much other than frustrate you as she continues her behavior. It's her choice to cheat, that's cowardly behavior to me.
Snooping leads to a lot of heartache, you already know enough info. How do you see this ending up for you?
Welcome Brother.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
thats the one thing i didnt do . i didn't do any snooping of any kind. Part of me wanted to, but the other part of me said absolutely not. stay away from that mess.
I has been couple months, since we have been living in separate rooms. We had been together for 18 years, no kids On December 9th I asked what was going on with her. I felt like she was spending more and more time by herself and did not want to spend with me or our friends. She was very secretive and I asked how she felt about our relationship and she could not answer. I had a bad feeling that she was cheating and started to pay more attention to her whereabouts. She stopped wearing wedding band probably since the beginning of November. On 12/26/18 She said she went to Nordstrom store. I tracked her phone and confirmed that she was in residential area and meeting a guy and having sex. Once she came back from his place I confronted her and she admitted that she saw him couples times. The guy is 10 years younger at first she said it just a fling. For couple weeks since then I have been a mess, however I quickly decided that I needed help and called therapist and started my healing process. I started reading divorce busting and researching how to communicate and work thru this. I stopped bothering her, gave her space and time. We would just say to each other good morning and good night and maybe some polite conversation. i was reading about boundaries and asked her not to use our house for affair resources. Today 02/09 I said that i felt being disrespected, by her continuing this affair. I asked why she haven't come to me sooner to talk about our problems and she said that she was a coward. I stated that I might live couple more month like this and said she might need to move out. I said sometime people need to spend time seperatly .Couple of my friends know of this, they helped me a lot. we haven' told family or any other of our friends. . I had been spending a lot of time outside with friends going to a dance class, gym. I had been on my best behavior, however I am not sure if there is a chance on this anymore.
Paul, I am so sorry for you. I am glad you are here because we can help, but I am also sad for you that you are here.
Thank you for telling us you have no kids. My advice always changes a bit for those without kids. When kids are involved, whether people want to admit it or not, it is important to consider what D does to kids. But when there are no kids involved you can be a little more selfish. You can ask questions like "Do I really want to be married to a cheater?" "Can I ever trust her again?" "I wonder how hot my new girlfriend will be?" Stuff like that.
I know you are going through a rough time. I, and others, often say that I wouldn't wish this on our worst enemy. But the good news is that you get decide what is best for you. And you get to look ahead to the future and decide what YOU want.
Also, I feel that if you truly move on eventually she will come back and want you, and you will get to decide whether you stay together or split apart.
Sounds like you are doing the right things. If she continues the affair I would get a little more forceful about her moving out.
Hang in there, you will be better off one way or the other.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you guys for responding so quickly, it means so much to me. I am trying to be strong, I have never thought that betrayal pain could be so unbearable. I will continue to read posts here and I will stop snooping as it makes my heart ache even more.
sorry to hear about your situation. Be strong, even when it's hard. Your emotions will betray you if you let them. But know that no matter how bad you feel at a given moment, that feeling will pass. It's one thing I've learned, you can manage those emotions, and you know that those emotions come and go.
I think you are doing the right things by getting out of the house and asking her to move out. Maybe consider going to the gym too if you don't already. Plenty to do and see there.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I had couple questions regarding texting. My wife texts me when " she will be back later" which means that she is seeing 3rd party. At first I used to respond OK, but know i feel this is just enabling her as well. Like yesterday, about 10 pm on she sent another text message that she will be back this morning. Should I just ignore that ? should I send something back? Yesterday I responded to her 2 month left 1 d penalty. I think this is just almost anger in me talking. Today I said you can ignore this message because I was sleeping. Today I asked her if she wanted to go to see a therapist as I was seeing one for 3 weeks already. She said no, which did not surprise me, I just said ok. By the way, we had signed a separation agreement couple weeks ago, which I initiated as I said I do not trust 3rd party and he might influence her I said this is for my own protection.
Today I asked her if she wanted to go to see a therapist as I was seeing one for 3 weeks already. She said no, which did not surprise me, I just said ok.
Don't pressure her to see someone. Even if she does it'll just be to say she "tried everything".
Quote
By the way, we had signed a separation agreement couple weeks ago, which I initiated as I said I do not trust 3rd party and he might influence her I said this is for my own protection.
Do you mean an informal agreement or you filed for legal S?
Regarding communications I agree with LB. Business only.
I think I have been holding pretty well. It helped me that I started going to a gym. I have joined martial arts club which I wanted to attend since childhood and started taking piano classes also helped spending more time with friends, the ones who know don't want to spend time with her which is understandable. I still feel pain and the fair of the unknown. I feel I have fear of finding love again and how much time it takes to find a good person. But I think I am getting there where I think that She just figment of my imagination. When I get home if I see her I am polite and I say good day or good night. I don't ask her about her whereabouts or anything that sort, don't ask about her day unless she asks me. I was considering enforcing another boundary about her returning home each night, because she stayed with 3rd party couple nights already. However I am not sure if that would change anything. I said she has 2 month left to stop affair or to move out. I wish I had better sleep. I usually wake up at 2 am in the morning and have trouble falling a sleep again. My therapist mentioned that I should ask her more about how she will tell parents and friends about separation also make sure that she thinks how the bills will be paid. Her opinion was that she needs to take responsibility of that as well. I was considering sending an email to my wife with those questions. What do you think if it's good idea. By the way I am reading divorce remedy, however I feel it does not apply to my wife as she is wayward. Thank you confirmed A 12/26/18 signed unofficial separation agreement 1/29/19
I was considering enforcing another boundary about her returning home each night, because she stayed with 3rd party couple nights already. However I am not sure if that would change anything. I said she has 2 month left to stop affair or to move out.
The act of setting and enforcing boundaries can misunderstood. Your boundaries are about protecting your feelings, self respect, honor, etc. Knowing your core values will help to know where to draw the line.
Quote
i was reading about boundaries and asked her not to use our house for affair resources.
What is your plan if she does not honor this ^^^^^^?
I'll give you a few suggestions about boundaries. 1) You are not making a request. 2) Enforcing a boundary is when you do some type of action that has some consequences (no violence) for the WW who dishonored your boundary. 3) If you restate your boundary, it loses effectiveness. 4) Don't announce to your WW that something is your boundary if you don't have the courage to follow through with enforcing it, b/c she will test you to see what you'll do.
Quote
I stated that I might live couple more month like this and said she might need to move out.
Just so you'll know in the future, these type of statements are like giving her a free pass for two more months. You have compromised your respect. How can she respect you, when you don't respect yourself more than this? You have to stand firm when dealing with infidelity. Do not tolerate her cheating two months, two days or two hours. The longer she sees you staying with her while she has sex with OM, the less she will want to be your W. Women are designed in such a way that they have to feel respect/admiration for the H in order to feel desire/attraction.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Like Sandi says, you must regain your respect first. Get some lawyer advice, set boundaries (they are just for you, not for her, you can’t control her, she’s wayward). Get out of her path then, No MR talks, not cake eating, nothing. Detach and GAL the most you can.
You need time and patience man. You have a long road ahead. Keep reading, keep posting.
You need to be strong Paul.
Patience.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Hm, I talked to a lawyer already and I could get court order to move her out. I felt like if I kick her out because of A there will be no way for me to show that I have changed. I am enforcing no contact with her. I feel like sometimes she looses her fog. For some reason I believe I can show that I am happy with my life and I am moving fwd at the same time she can she what she is loosing.
Hi Paul, it's good to hear from you again. I realize this is a very painful time for you, and I hope you will use the board as your support group. ((hugs))
Quote
My therapist mentioned that I should ask her more about how she will tell parents and friends about separation also make sure that she thinks how the bills will be paid. Her opinion was that she needs to take responsibility of that as well. I was considering sending an email to my wife with those questions. What do you think if it's good idea.
Well, here are my thoughts about it, FWIW. Your W has fired you as her H. So, you are not responsible for how she tells her parents/friends. It's not up to you to see that she tells them. The same can be said about her bills, unless it's to inform her that you won't be supplying the funds. Why should you school her about the things she will need to know? I get what your therapist is suggesting, but I don't agree from the standpoint of a WW. The therapist must think these things will cause your W to stop and reconsider her decision. Here's the thing, the WW has to have reality to smack her in the face. Currently she believes in a fantasy. What do you think jars her from the fantasy fog? She can't be coddled, or she will likely remain in her wayward state. She has to experience some of the harsh consequences that come from her wayward decisions. Trying to point out to her the things your therapist suggested will not draw her out of the waywardness. It will only draw more resentment.
Quote
I felt like if I kick her out because of A there will be no way for me to show that I have changed.
I suspect you want to make changes for her. Those type of changes don't phase a wayward W. Why? B/c she has lost respect for you, and she no longer cares about some improvements you make. Sorry to be so harsh, Paul, but WW's can be cold and more harsh than I'm being at the moment. Yes, we encourage newcomers to work on themselves.......but it is not with the intent to impress the wayward spouse and change their mind. I've been around a long time, and I have my first time to read about a WW ending her A and deciding to work on her MR b/c her H was doing more housework, finishing all those repairs/projects, hanging around the house more, etc. I have read of times a H would work himself crazy, trying to be the image of the H he thought his W wanted....... and the WW would indeed notice his changes. She would even comment on all the changes he had made.......only to add how it had not changed her feelings. Whenever I see a LBH worried that his WW won't see his changes, I'm pretty certain he is focused on making changes for her.
Her ability to feel love/desire for you is not possible, until she feels respect for you as a man. That is how women are wired.
I can give you some tips about the type of changes you can make that are more effective in your WW's final decisions and the direction she'll take. I just don't know that you are ready to trust it. You have a lot of fear and you have to lose the fear of losing her. Actually, you've already lost her in many ways. The way to draw her back is by becoming a man who knows his worth and has enough self respect to not put up with a cheating W. It doesn't matter how long it may take you to find another good person. You have to ask yourself........what kind of person do you have now?
Am I promoting divorce? No, I am here to tell good men about wayward wives and a little about the WW's mindset and how they operate. The sooner you can grasp that concept, the sooner you stand a chance in turning things around. You are correct that the DR book doesn't really refer to wayward spouses categorically. However, it is still a good overall guide. There is basically one difference I have when it comes to a wayward W, and that is the H can't play BFF with her, and he has to demonstrate a dose of tougher love than the book may imply. In other words, he can't nice his WW back into the MR......b/c she has lost respect for him. Therefore, all the tender, nice things the H may want to do to win back his WW from an affair, will be seen by her as him being soft/weak. When a W is wayward, it ALWAYS boils down to her losing respect for her H. Disrespect is the root of waywardness, and it kills the W's feelings of attraction for her H. That's why she will say, "I love you, but I am not in love with you". The "in love" is the sexual desire/attraction. Disrespect killed it. The good news is that those feelings can be restored, by having the respect restored.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you sandi2 for responding, Your response was a kick in my nuts and a reality check that I needed. I had that a stupid hope that she may wake up from her dream. After she has not shown for 3 days in the row, I know I have to say to her good bye. You are 100% right I had a fear holding me from doing what I should have done long time ago. I would like to hear from you "I can give you some tips about the type of changes you can make that are more effective in your WW's final decisions and the direction she'll take. I just don't know that you are ready to trust it."
I am planning to ask her to pack her things tonight and move out. Should I add anything for farewell? Should I tell her I still worry about her?
Don't tell her you still worry about her just out of nowhere. Only you can decide what kind of person you are. When you're showing her the door, you can say that you still care about her, but what will she think if you do? Will she think that she's still go you on the hook? Maybe not if you're firm about protecting yourself and what you won't tolerate in a spouse, because you're actions show that even though you have feelings for her, you won't tolerate the affair.
Her moving out will be a wake up call, we just don't know if it will wake her up in a month, 12 months, or 5 years down the road. You will be removing yourself is a good thing IMO.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Hi, Just wanted to give you an update. When she came back that Sunday she was gone for like 3-4 days. I said if you plan to be gone for 3 days please tell me as I do't know if you are missing person and should call police or not. I asked her to move all her stuff out of our bedroom.
Then we talked about that she should move out as it's not healthy for me to live this way. I did not ask her about affair or anything. She said it's her house and she won't be kicked out. We both own the place. I asked her to find a place to rent but at the moment does not look like she is going to do that. After this talk I noticed the she felt quite guilty, but did not stop her affair. I had snooped around to see what's going on. It appears that she does not see future with affair partner, however she is avoiding me as much as possible. She delays to get up so she would not see me in the morning or goes to the 3rd floor as soon as she can.
After this talk regarding her moving out and packing she is trying to avoid me as much as possible. Couple days ago I said maybe we should sell condo or I could buy out. She sent message to her girlfriend asking about this that I posting too much on Facebook. It looks like she is concerned what to tell her mother in regards what's going on. I had couple posts with my friends where we went to the beach and got some beer. I feel it's getting closer to divorce then to anything else. I feel like I don't even care about her and if I even can think about her as person. I guess it's kind sad.
Sandy if you "I can give you some tips about the type of changes you can make that are more effective in your WW's final decisions and the direction she'll take. I just don't know that you are ready to trust it. You have a lot of fear and you have to lose the fear of losing her. Actually, you've already lost her in many ways. The way to draw her back is by becoming a man who knows his worth and has enough self respect to not put up with a cheating W. It doesn't matter how long it may take you to find another good person. You have to ask yourself........what kind of person do you have now? "
I am not even sure if there is anything I can do anymore. Probably I am just looking to have peace and quote.
I felt that it helped me with detachment when I repeated that my wife that I had known had died and this person is some stranger living in this property.
You don't know if your W is any loser to being done with the marriage or not, so try not to worry about it. Her avoiding you shows you how much feelings she has for you. Or maybe how much pressure she is feeling, so remove all pressure. Have you read Divorce Remedy? MWD talks about pursuit and it's great to read.
What can you do? Read here, post here, learn more. Learn how to be an attractive, strong, confident man.
Stop with the R talks, they're no good for you.
Do your best to create your own happiness!
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
It's good to hear from you again, Paul. Sorry things aren't much better. I think you have to hold the line and not compromise your values. She knows she has done you wrong. If she's having problems with OM, then don't be thrown off guard if she starts acting pitiful, maybe crying, and even saying she needs a hug from you. This is the WW having a pity party, and nothing more. She will probably temp check you at any moment, She wants to secure you as her backup plan.
Quote
I feel like I don't even care about her and if I even can think about her as person. I guess it's kind sad.
It's easier to apply tough love when you feel that way. And quite frankly, the WW needs to see exactly what you've described in that sentence. It's the jolt she needs. If only H's would do this as soon as he finds out about OM or gets bomb drop, it would save a lot more M's.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
HI Just posting this again not sure if my post previously has been seen. Just wanted to give you an update. When she came back that Sunday she was gone for like 3-4 days. I said if you plan to be gone for 3 days please tell me as I do't know if you are missing person and should call police or not. I asked her to move all her stuff out of our bedroom.
Then we talked about that she should move out as it's not healthy for me to live this way. I did not ask her about affair or anything. She said it's her house and she won't be kicked out. We both own the place. I asked her to find a place to rent but at the moment does not look like she is going to do that. After this talk I noticed the she felt quite guilty, but did not stop her affair. I had snooped around to see what's going on. It appears that she does not see future with affair partner, however she is avoiding me as much as possible. She delays to get up so she would not see me in the morning or goes to the 3rd floor as soon as she can.
After this talk regarding her moving out and packing she is trying to avoid me as much as possible. Couple days ago I said maybe we should sell condo or I could buy out. She sent message to her girlfriend asking about this that I posting too much on Facebook. It looks like she is concerned what to tell her mother in regards what's going on. I had couple posts with my friends where we went to the beach and got some beer. I feel it's getting closer to divorce then to anything else. I feel like I don't even care about her and if I even can think about her as person. I guess it's kind sad.
Sandy if you "I can give you some tips about the type of changes you can make that are more effective in your WW's final decisions and the direction she'll take. I just don't know that you are ready to trust it. You have a lot of fear and you have to lose the fear of losing her. Actually, you've already lost her in many ways. The way to draw her back is by becoming a man who knows his worth and has enough self respect to not put up with a cheating W. It doesn't matter how long it may take you to find another good person. You have to ask yourself........what kind of person do you have now? "
I am not even sure if there is anything I can do anymore. Probably I am just looking to have peace and quote.
I felt that it helped me with detachment when I repeated that my wife that I had known had died and this person is some stranger living in this property.
Yesterday, when she was leaving I said you used to have high morale and now not sure what is happening. I feel like she is feeling guilty about her behavior. I am not sure if I should more...
Hey Paul, I'm happy to help in some way. If you have not read the links at the bottom of first page on Sandi's Rules, I believe it could give you insight on the WW mindset and how the LBH needs to deal with it. I believe there is a difference in the WW and WAW, and I try to explain that difference within these threads.......while at the same time, I was trying to respond to the individual questions being asked by posters. There are several threads, but one where I mainly talk about the connection of the WW to a H with NGS is in my first thread of Sandi's Reflections. Here's the link:
When reading Divorce Remedy, you will not find the term, "wayward spouse". MWD does not separate the walk-away and the wayward spouse. Read Divorce Remedy first. Read NMMNG, and then read these other links.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi, I learned that OM kind dumped her and was asking to be friends. She was going thru withdrawal so last Friday while as gone to one of our coworkers wake she went to casino with couple friends and acquaintance. She managed to get that drunk that made out in a car with one of the guys. It just disgusting to me. She even texted one of her girlfriends that she did not feel shame I believe even her friend was surprised. Of course she does not know that I know.
I said that she is responsible for her own federal and state taxes as I filed married separated. I also learned that she talked to a lawyer. She complained to her sister that I was unfriendly because I did not file joint taxes and she is thinking about divorce and she mentioned that its time to tell her mother that we having marriage problems. Our communication is limited to I "say good day how are you" and her response is the same. I am polite with her like with a neighbor. On Sunday I initiated talk about paying off land loan and filing taxes and I told her that my coworkers suicide made me think about this in limbo marriage and not sure how long I will last. I said to her that this behavior is like teenager and it's time to grow up. I said there info online which could help her with this kinda behavior. After that I kinda realized that this probably won't hit her as she thinks that this is how reality looks like I also learned that she saw a shrink and going to see again.
I signed up on couple dating sites and went with couple woman just to practice dating. Nothing serious I did not share this info with her. At the moment I am not even sure if it's just better to be the first to file for divorce or see where all this goes. I am trying to look at this as experiment and be an observer. I just feel kind a sadness that the person can fall that low. I guess the anger and range is gone just acceptance. I still check detachment thread which helped me tremendously.
Quit checking up on her IMO she is acting a damn fool. If her cheater status changes and she wants you to know it then you will know it. Until then it only hurts you. What can you do to be a happy, successful, attractive man in the meantime?
Not sure why you're dating. Have you healed? Have you learned? Have you grown? Are you married? So what's the point?
I know why, but you should think about it. You're perfectly OK without someone and you need to believe it deep down.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
hi I am looking for some advise. My wife is asking if she can use my HSA account to pay for a shrink she is seeing. I said I will think about it. In addition I don't know if there would be tax consequences if she lives apart.
She initiated the talk recently about payoff off the land which kinda means that she is looking to move out of our condo and actively is looking to get a new apartment in the same city where AP lives. I am not sure if she still seeing this AP or found somebody new. I can see that she is withdrawal and sometimes cries. She has not asked me for any help or support so I am just being polite. At the beginning in Contra dance classes I was more focused on almost trying to get woman to like me with intention to date. For some reason the last time not sure what happened I felt that I din't care if I find somebody or not as long I had fun it will be ok.
it's a Friday night, or Saturday or Sunday I hate them, because I feel lonely. I never felt so lonely in my life. How do you deal with that? I guess by accepting that this is your new life.
Just let go. Yes accept that its all about you now. Get out and meet people. Go exercise. Dont just sit around and dwell.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Thank you for advise. I went hiking by myself yesterday, that was quite a bit of change, never done that before. No one was bothering me that they are tired or they can't make it. It was great! Today I went to for a run to try a new trail and met some good new people.
Hello My wife moved out and she is living in her own apartment. I refinanced the house and it's in my name only . She is doing home warming celebration and also wants me to come to her apartment on Friday. Our mutual friends might show up there. She is dating and I am dating... We are civil and all that, but not sure if it's good idea to celebrate " this her living by herself" Looking for a quick input from experienced members. Thank you in advance
separated in house 12/31/2018 Wife moved out 06/08/19
