I don't think I can love anyone as much as I loved my H...especially now that my heart has been broken and I've experienced that kind of betrayal that I have. I just can't see me ever being that vulnerable with anyone again. I never, ever want to feel this way again. Makes me sad as I've always viewed my ability to be vulnerable with people as a strength. Now I think it is one of my biggest weaknesses...that and my tendency to trust people.
I am right there with you DV. I don't think I'll ever let my walls all the way down again. The sad truth is it CAN happen again no matter how wonderful the person may seem at first. I love my GF, but it's been over 4 years and I still cannot bring myself to trust her like I did my ex. I completely and utterly trusted my ex and I think that's part of the reason our M crumbled, because that trust led me to get lazy and complacent in the M. I can't bring myself to trust my GF like that. I would rather maintain enough independence that my life isn't turned upside down like that again. Maybe that's a bad thing? Or a good thing? I don't know, but that's how I prefer it to be.
Wow AS... your response certainly resonated with me. The part about trusting someone so much that you got lazy and complacent in your MR. I hadn't thought about what was behind my inaction in the marriage but yes, I think, that definitely had a lot to do with it. I trusted that if my H was unhappy or needed me to do something, that he would sit me down, look me in the eyes and tell me directly that we were in trouble and then give us the opportunity to work it out. I trusted he would do that completely. The stupid part is that the reason I trusted him to do that is because that is what I would have done. However, if I had really been thinking about it and reflecting on past behaviours, I would have figured out that that is not what my H does. But I ignored what I knew about him even though my gut told me multiple times that things were not what they seemed. I am usually pretty brave when it comes to doing the hard things in life but I wasn't with him.
My thoughts re: your GF... if not trusting her 100% stops you from becoming lazy and complacent, then maybe that is a good thing. And the lack of 100% trust does not mean she isn't 100% trustworthy... I think it is just the natural consequence of having been blindsided like most of us were. It can't help but change you as a person. I envy where you are at in life AS. I so want to get there and not have to go through this other stuff. But life just doesn't work that way, does it.
I spent some time looking through old threads this weekend and found three people who got divorced and then later reconciled with their H's who suddenly "woke up" and realized what they wanted, they had had all along. I'm not naïve enough to think that will happen with my H but it was comforting to read that it did happen for some people.
DV- going through the historical threads on this site is very helpful - I've been doing the same! I find the tone of folks conversations different, and I really enjoy how close of a community it seemed to be. Sometimes I choose a random user, read a post, then click "all posts" and see what they posted 1 year or 2 years later. It is always an improvement. Sometimes they R, sometimes not, but they are always in a better headspace. You can see so many times when the LBS turned into the WAS at a potential point of R.
I'm currently in the process of reading all of Wonka's posts that still exist. Over 7,000. Something about her advice really speaks to me. She had good 2x4s, good advice, and always came from a place of positivity. She rarely engaged in negative speak about the person's WAS unless they were truly abusive.
Out of curiousity, who were the 3 posters? I know a former poster named Pink (don't know exact name) did - they were D and got remarried.
I think the part that's great about reading other people's stories is that you can really see they weren't stagnant.
I want to speak on what you mentioned wrt trust. I wasn't the most trusting person to begin with. XW was probably the least trusting person I know. She rubbed off on me and it caused me to be even less trusting. Now she was the one person I did trust. I was fully committed to my trust in her and she broke it. So how do you ever trust someone and make yourself vulnerable to someone like that again? Is it even possible? My walls are up so high and I don't see the point of bringing them down. Are we forever scarred? I sure as heck don't see the point in getting M again. Maybe if I wanted more kids, but I am good with 3.
How can we fully commit without fooling ourselves? AS do you have that itch that you can't scratch or thought tugging in the back of your head that your GF will bail or cheat on you so don't let her put both feet in the doorway?
Last edited by Twofeet; 02/04/1909:53 PM.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Yail - I looked around for a bit last night but couldn’t find the threads I was reading. I will look again tonight to see if I can find them. Can’t recall the names unfortunately.
Came home after work to an empty house. Luckily I had pool league to keep me busy. Drove by my daughter’s martial arts gym and saw my H sitting in his vehicle waiting for her. I just kept driving. Felt sad that I couldn’t pull over and talk to him. I miss our conversations. It is still so surreal to me, even after four months, that the person I was closest to for all those years became a stranger overnight. Thinking about it brings up that all too familiar burning sensation in my chest. I really hate that feeling.
Grief is such a painful process. I feel like I am caught between depression and acceptance. I have accepted that this is my reality as much as I don’t want it to be. It is what it is. My H could have made many other decisions and tried to honour is vows and fight for our family but he didn’t. He allowed resentment to build until it was the only feeling he had left in his heart for me. That is so hard for me to understand. To choose that over everything else. And he did that for four years. No wonder he could not see any other path. No resentment on my end. Just sadness and loss.
Some unexpected down time at work. More opportunities for me to be alone with my thoughts. Decided it would be a good time to go through some of my personal files at work to get rid of some of them. Came across some pictures of my H...in happier times. They were painful to look at. Also some pics of guys I had dated before him which was interesting. Didn't know that I had some of those.
Gosh you guys... I so do not have any resentment or anger towards my H anymore. I really have forgiven him. But man... is there ever a lot of buried thoughts and feelings coming up about myself and the things I did and did not do to contribute to this situation. Forgiving myself appears to be something that I have to do every single day as one day does not seem to bleed into the next. A week ago Friday, I thought I had turned a corner in that department. But my talk with my H on Wednesday really set me back. It was jarring to see how much anger and resentment he has been harbouring towards me. When I first refused to agree to his date of separation, he went from collegial to irate in a nanosecond. I'm not sure that I have seen that level of animosity towards me...ever.
I am really trying to work on my PMA but I keep running into this wall of regret and shame. It takes so much energy to climb over it and I have done it so often, I think I am just starting to lose the will and the hope that there is something better on the other side. How is that for a major pity party? The thing is... I'm not feeling sorry for myself so much as I am feeling, deep down, that I somehow deserved this. I had the love that I had always wanted and I let it go. I let the things about me that my H loved go too. In my efforts to try and have the "perfect" life, I stopped living in the present and always had my sights set on tomorrow or next month or next year. I didn't look around enough. I didn't appreciate what I had. I never stopped telling my H that I loved him but I did stop showing it... and he stopped feeling it.
Reading what I wrote, I am resisting the urge to erase it and start over. I know that I can get through this. I have too many good things and good people in my life not to. But I think I need to document my worst feelings so I can really start to purge myself of them. Like if I see them in black and white, maybe they won't hurt me quite as much.
I know, I know...Time to catch my breath...take a step back...refocus...plan some more GAL activities...make some more short-term goals. I promise you I will get back to that. I haven't given up on me yet even though it may sound like I have.
Thanks all for your support and encouragement. I apologize for being a bit of a downer today. I promise I am working really hard to take my next step forward. I just really needed to try to journal these sad feelings away. (((HUGS)))
I am really trying to work on my PMA but I keep running into this wall of regret and shame. It takes so much energy to climb over it and I have done it so often, I think I am just starting to lose the will and the hope that there is something better on the other side. How is that for a major pity party? The thing is... I'm not feeling sorry for myself so much as I am feeling, deep down, that I somehow deserved this. I had the love that I had always wanted and I let it go. I let the things about me that my H loved go too. In my efforts to try and have the "perfect" life, I stopped living in the present and always had my sights set on tomorrow or next month or next year. I didn't look around enough. I didn't appreciate what I had. I never stopped telling my H that I loved him but I did stop showing it... and he stopped feeling it.
(((DV))),
If it’s any consolation, I sometimes find myself in a similar mindset, as well. Though I probably can’t help you out of where you’re at, at least know that sometimes I’m down there with you.
I sometimes feel like I deserve this, too; that W told me what she needed from me, and I couldn’t do it or wouldn’t do it or it wasn’t enough or whatever.
When she would tell me what she needed, she would often close with saying something like ‘I’m saying this so my conscience can be clear’—and that always shook me, because deep down I feared it was a veiled threat at D.
I always thought I had what I wanted with W, flaws and all. Thought that she and I had a pretty good thing; though it wasn’t perfect and there were problems, there were good times, too. I would also tell W that I loved her, and I thought I did my best to back it up, but in her estimation I may have stopped showing it or didn’t show it as effectively as I could have. And perhaps she stopped feeling it.
The regrets and shame are difficult for me, too; shame is something that I’m working on conquering for me in general, not just with respect to my MR. I’m working on it, but at some points it’s more difficult than others.
I do know and hope that something (and someone) better await, in time. What that looks like or when, not sure. Trying to keep focus on myself and the boys, and how to protect the 3 of us in this.
I’m with you—I journal on here to let out the thoughts that otherwise would spin round and round in my head, or could make their way into interactions with W or others—I use this as a sounding board, so I often do repeat myself and ‘spin,’ but it’s my way of processing it. Tbh, I do need better outlets (exercise, GALing), but this also helps too.
I am really trying to work on my PMA but I keep running into this wall of regret and shame. It takes so much energy to climb over it and I have done it so often, I think I am just starting to lose the will and the hope that there is something better on the other side. How is that for a major pity party? The thing is... I'm not feeling sorry for myself so much as I am feeling, deep down, that I somehow deserved this. I had the love that I had always wanted and I let it go. I let the things about me that my H loved go too. In my efforts to try and have the "perfect" life, I stopped living in the present and always had my sights set on tomorrow or next month or next year. I didn't look around enough. I didn't appreciate what I had. I never stopped telling my H that I loved him but I did stop showing it... and he stopped feeling it.
(((DV))),
If it’s any consolation, I sometimes find myself in a similar mindset, as well. Though I probably can’t help you out of where you’re at, at least know that sometimes I’m down there with you.
I sometimes feel like I deserve this, too; that W told me what she needed from me, and I couldn’t do it or wouldn’t do it or it wasn’t enough or whatever.
When she would tell me what she needed, she would often close with saying something like ‘I’m saying this so my conscience can be clear’—and that always shook me, because deep down I feared it was a veiled threat at D.
I always thought I had what I wanted with W, flaws and all. Thought that she and I had a pretty good thing; though it wasn’t perfect and there were problems, there were good times, too. I would also tell W that I loved her, and I thought I did my best to back it up, but in her estimation I may have stopped showing it or didn’t show it as effectively as I could have. And perhaps she stopped feeling it.
The regrets and shame are difficult for me, too; shame is something that I’m working on conquering for me in general, not just with respect to my MR. I’m working on it, but at some points it’s more difficult than others.
I do know and hope that something (and someone) better await, in time. What that looks like or when, not sure. Trying to keep focus on myself and the boys, and how to protect the 3 of us in this.
I’m with you—I journal on here to let out the thoughts that otherwise would spin round and round in my head, or could make their way into interactions with W or others—I use this as a sounding board, so I often do repeat myself and ‘spin,’ but it’s my way of processing it. Tbh, I do need better outlets (exercise, GALing), but this also helps too.
Looking back my w told me as well what she was needing and i just blew it off as her nagging me. I didn't appreciate that she was coming to me and telling me what she needed from me. Mine was being selfish and insecure about her hanging out with people , being controlling. That was over a year ago she told me that. I didn't change or encourage her to go out and make new gfs and hang out with them. I didn't take her feelings into account . That hurts bad to realize that now. After reading gottmans MGTW and how he points out women have to have friends to live and get by . That really opened my eyes .
DV, you have now said several times that you have forgiven your H. Can I ask why that is? I am not fishing for anything in particular here, but more so wondering what your reasoning is. What has he done to deserve your forgiveness? And if he hasn't, then why is it you want/need to forgive him to move forward?
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Bo - It is nice to know I am not alone in my need to journal my worst thoughts. I find that when I do and I read it over to myself, my brain starts to work on the things I need to work on. Self love is a HUGE issue for me. I didn’t think it was until this happened. The hole my H has left in me is far too big given how long he has been checked out of “our” life. I have to ask myself why that is? Why do I feel like I need him to be okay? Intellectually, I know that I don’t. So why is there such a yearning in my heart? He has been essentially gone for over four years and when he was around, he was dismissive, uninterested and irritable. He had everyone in the house walking on egg shells including our children. There were flashes of the man I fell in love with but, for the most part, he was just difficult to be around. So why would I miss that? Why am I not enough for me? Why do I look in the mirror and see only my faults and insecurities? These are really tough questions that I have only just begun to answer for myself. More than anything, I want to feel whole on my own.
Bubbs - There are a number of things my H needed from me that I was only partially aware of. I know that he needed more physical touch. I have to give myself a bit of a pass on that for the last few years as he wasn’t around but before that, I was just so exhausted with working full time and motherhood that it just wasn’t a priority. I depended on him to make the first move but he rarely did so I just figured we were in the same boat and would just fix it later. Later just never seemed to arrive. I also know my H needed to feel like his efforts were appreciated. I think I did go out of my way at times to thank him when he did things but over time, I stopped. TBH...I think I was a bit resentful that I was supposed to make a big deal every time my H lifted a finger to help me but that I rarely, if ever, got a thanks from him for the things that I did...including for dealing with his daughter’s overbearing mother. In 13 years, I think he had maybe three conversations with her. I dealt with her every other time...emails, text messages, phone calls, money requests, holiday scheduling, visits, etc... I did all of it. He maybe thanked me three times over that whole time period and that is only after I pointed out to him that he never thanked me. Anyway... water under the bridge except for now she wants to be my friend so she is still bugging me.
Blu - I had to really think about your question and TBH, I am still thinking about it. I’m not sure what he has done to deserve my forgiveness and I’m not sure that he needs to deserve it to have it. Forgiveness, for me, goes hand-in-hand with acceptance. And I’m not sure I can have one without the other. If I don’t forgive him, I may accept that he is gone but I think there would always be some negativity remaining and I don’t want that in my life.
Today I wandered into a colleagues office and sat down in one of her chairs for a quick chat. I looked over to my right and on her bookshelf I noticed a book entitled “You Can Heal Your Heart”. Perfect book for me given my life right now. I asked her if I could borrow it and I read some of it at lunch. It is filled with a lot of self affirmations and different ways to think about grief and the loss of a relationship. One of the things I read that stood out for me was that you can act yourself into a new way of thinking more easily than you can think yourself into a new way of acting. I talk to my clients about this all of the time. I ask them who it is they want to be in the world and how do they want to influence the people around them. If they died tomorrow, what would they want people to say about them at their funeral?
I have been asking myself these same questions lately. I want to be someone who REALLY loves and accepts people for who they are. My H is not a bad person. He did not do the things he did out of malice or hate. For whatever reason, he could not see any other solution to his pain than what he did. Could he have chosen another path? I could have and would have chosen a different path but I’m not him so I can’t really say. Only he can answer that and, at this point, does it even matter? He and I made a promise to each other when we got married. We agreed that no matter what, we would always assume that the other person was doing the best they could. We both seemed to forget that promise for a good part of our marriage but I remember it now and it is important to me that I keep that promise. So...I forgive him... for our children, for him, and for me. Forgiving myself is a work in progress and I am working on it every day.
Not sure I answered your question or if my answer even made sense but these are the things that I have been thinking about lately.
