Thank you guys for the lovely birthday wishes. It was an interesting day. More on that later.
Ok guys, I fear this is going to be a long one. There is definitely something going on with him.
First a question for Job: You know how when they leave they say, "I haven't been happy for a year or two." Then it is five, ten, and finally the whole marriage. For a long time, I have heard how he never should have married me. We should have dated 3 months and broken up. He settled with me. On and on. Today, in another long in person meeting he says that he was not happy the last 10 years of our marriage. Do they start working backward? The interesting part, I would agree, the first changes/emotional withdrawal from him were 10 years ago. First time he has ever said something that approximated our reality.
There was a lot of back and forth and I'm mostly going to try not to do it ad nauseum, but I feel like some significant stuff happened here that might be helpful to myself looking back some day or someone now in the future.
He contacted S for 9 days around my birthday, but went stone cold silent on the day. Cooties won. Remember I said I got a big deposit that day unexpectedly (it was $15k). I had to take mom to a bunch of dr visits, then we went out to dinner. Noticed S had cut himself again. As usual he articulated that it was sadness over dad. Next day at 4 am someone tries to hack into one of my financial accounts (one I had forgotten about and I"m sure H had too). I start feeling guilty about the $15k and feel like he is testing me.
Day after bday I write and say I got some money that I think I wasn't supposed to get. Would like to return it to you and discuss some time sensitive matters (the upcoming D hearing and S's cutting and heading into finals and concerned about his mental health at this time). He plays games. Responds one word at a time. Takes hours between. Says he is going to visit his dad and is unavailable for weekend (the man who abandoned him at age 8, lived 3 miles away his whole life, and barely saw him). Father lives past us so you have to drive by our town (literally less than 1/2 mile off the freeway). I reveal, after talking to L, that S has self-harmed, school situation is not looking great into finals, very concerned about him, need OD to come talk to me and talk to S--so S can at least feel like dad cares and actually study for these finals before he blows his gpa. OD never asks how he self-harmed, how is he doing, nothing. Never asks about money. Refuses to respond about talking about and to S. Refuses to come. Weekend goes by (clearly passes by here again on Sunday and had previously said he was available Monday). He leaves what S describes as menacing vm and tells him that he will be talking to him on phone. S blcoks OD.
Getting to mid-morning. No word from OD about whether he is coming here. Text him. He says he is working and can't come. Tells me I will have both kids unblock him. Back and forth texting. For various reasons I want to get it done today and go and meet him at coffee shop in horrible town where he lives.
Another of those surreal conversations. All over the place. Sometimes rationale. Sometimes insane. Lots of gaslighting. Near beginning almost like he is taunting me with picture of OW2 on his big phone. I calmly take the phone out of his hand turn it over, and put it down on table next to him. I tell him, you will not disrespect me like that. He says you need to move on. I said I did, two years ago, but I'm still not going to be disrespected.
Tell him about missed deadline and upcoming hearing. Explain time for hearing and cost to each side, explain we can just pay fine and document is no big deal, but that there will be other deadlines. He had said in the text battle that we would have everything resolved before hearing. I said no time. I say what to do you want to do. He said dismiss case and work on settlement. I say fine.
Talk about S. Tell him that I was not going to put up with passive-aggressive phone games anymore, told him that controlling information and communication was form of emotional abuse and I wouldn't tolerate it. Told him he was wrong to not come see S and there was no excuse. He said OW2 was with him. I said you could have dropped her at Starbucks. He accused me of physical abuse throughout our marriage. Absolute lie. I said I guess you have to tell people something other than that you went crazy and walked out on your wife and kids, huh. I said rewrite history all you want. I'm the one that went to the ER with physical abuse (and even then only 1x and very early in marriage-not discounting, but seriously, there was no physical abuse from me and only the one incident from him). He quickly drops that line.
I tell him I'm not ordering kids to unblock him. He needs to work that out with them. Past is not the past. He needs to make amends for what he did. He said, huge admission, "I was wrong in the order I did things." He was wrong about a lot more than that but hey, after years, I'll take that.
He says we have an agreement we can wrap this up quickly (why dismiss then?). I say no, you haven't indicated who will pay for S college. Finally he says he will pay for it but he says where. I said no dice. S says where.
Talk about S self harm over unresolved feelings for dad. He blames me since I'm the one with S. I said I can be everything for S but his dad, and while he doesn't think you fit the bill, he still wants a father figure. I tell him that I have left him to his own devices for 2.5 years and that now I'm taking that away. I name a particular day of the week and I say you will see S on this day after school and take him for food, counseling, and then fun. You will not miss a single day. You will tell your job and OW2 that you are not available for anything on this day. Your S will be your number one priority on this day if no other day. He says, "I'm fine with that." Then says he wants to spend more time with S than that. I said let's start with that and make sure you can follow through.
He said S said you won't let him drive X car (my sporty convertible, no longer in production, quite small). i say that is not appropriate for S. His commitments take him into the country on rutty, dirt roads. He needs a truck. I can buy one from someone I know and get a good deal. I tell him what it is and the cost. He says he wants no part of it. Its on me if I want to do it.
Conversation goes on, insults both ways. He says he wants to be divorced asap because he has his elderly parents to care for. WHAT??????? He has never wanted anything to do with them and now suddenly Mr. Only It For Himself is going to take care of them? The same guy who couldn't stop on the way and see his S. I am shocked. Then I start thinking about the reconnection order.
He tells me repeatedly what I have to do to repair his relationship with the kids. I say no can do, that is on you. He says he wants S to unblock him. I say that is up to S. I say write him an email and send it to me and I'll give it to him. Tell him you are going to see him on this day and you would like him to unblock you. He says I'm not doing what you tell me. I say ok. He says make S unblock me. I say no. That is S's choice. S calls right then. Has to go to ER. I say I'm calling grandma to take you. I hang up. I say I need the insurance card, S is going to ER.
We wrap things up. He says he is telling his lawyer to dismiss case. He is coming next week to do agreement (I had three meetings with him about the same agreement 2.5 years before and after it was prepared as agreed, he never signed). Not holding my breath.
I'm in car. I say you never said anything about the money. He says write me a check. I say, I thought you might like me to keep some of it to go toward S's truck. He says how much, I say $10k. He says fine, give me $5k before I change my mind.
As I'm about to pull out, he looks at me, again with weepy eyes (always on departing) and says thank you so much for driving out to me. It means so much. I say I hope you know how much I hate coming to this place. He says I do. Now earlier in the conversation he told me at least once that he hates me. He said he hated talking to me because I filibuster him. He repeatedly told me I was insane when I brought up things he has previously admitted to. He also said that my voice is an indication that I'm not doing well (remember I told him his physical appearance had changed in a concerning way). I said I've been sick with bronchitis and asthma since S brought home a bad virus.
I tell him to send me photo of insurance card. I need to get it to S at the ER. I drive home (an hour) and go to ER. S has bad cut--kitchen accident. OD texts and asks how he is. I tell him and send picture. I tell S that OD wants him to unblock him and that he should send text letting OD know he has done it. They text back and forth. We are delayed coming home. As we are almost here, OD calls S. S waffles on whether to answer. V/m must have kicked in. We come in house. I text OD. I said try him again in .5. We were almost home and he was waffling. Give him a little time to settle in. Don't try for too much and don't talk long. He has a final. OD acknowledges receiving the text. Just about a first. I thank him and say you may not understand why something so small matters, but I appreciate you acknowledging my efforts to help you. He then replied with a thank you. This is big stuff for him people.
Can't believe he went from complaining about the car to letting me keep $10k to put toward it. At times he looked me straight in the eye. At times he was nice. At times he was a massive ahole. I was a trooper. No tears. Good mood. Said my peace.
Ah yes, forgot that at one point, when talking about how he couldn't wait to get this done, he said you don't want to be married to me either. I said, "I have no interest in being married to the person you are now. But I loved the person I married and was married to for 20 years very much. I miss him."
Also forgot when discussing D, I said she was creeped out by him and asked, "Why would you tell her to watch a movie about a father who kidnaps his daughter and hides her in a park living off the grid and avoiding authority for years, and tell her to read a book about a man who hides from the process server to avoid signing the divorce papers his wife tried to get him to sign for 2.5 years (recognize the timing there?)." He says, "I thought they were both enjoyable."
A few truth darts, looks like they were well received, a little bit, maybe even more than a little bit. Time will tell.
My favourite bit, for you and him:
Originally Posted by OneArt
I have no interest in being married to the person you are now. But I loved the person I married and was married to for 20 years very much. I miss him.
How is son doing? Having to go to ER, the cut must have been pretty bad.
OneArt, you know you did well. Boundaries, staying on topic(s), and keeping him focused (that’s like herding cats). He said so much information, I am sure it will take some time to fully digest and accept it. Good idea to write it down for future reflecting.
Will talk more, I’m running late.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
You did great Im not sure how much the MLCer retains, but he did seem to hear and be somewhat cooperative.
Sorry about S- I know my 17 year old S is also in therapy muddling through his feelings of abandonment from his dad. Definitely very sad for a mom to witness- Im glad your H can be a little present for S- boys do need male role models.
Im not sure our H will ever understand the damage they inflicted-must be hard to deal with for the MLCer so they run further down I know MY xh has covered himself with drugs and alcohol to cope I hope your H will find his way out of the mess he created-
You said your peace and Im sure that much feel good- Hopefully some of it-sticks with him
He realized he did wrong- he apologized His tears also show his remorse, for his actions- Hopefully he can find his way Your kindness, honesty and love and forgiveness will only help him -
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Yes, they do tend to go from being unhappy one month and on and on and on. If he had been that unhappy for that many years, he would have done something about it when it began to go down hill for him. You most certainly would have picked up on his unhappiness that long ago. It's the depression talking.
As for taking care of his parents...well, that may be true, but I suspect he wants attention and empathy. He is no where close to wanting to take care of his parents. He is still rambling on about things, i.e., wants the divorce yesterday, but can't get himself to hearings, etc.
As for you keeping the money and using some of it towards a vehicle for your son...that makes him look like an upstanding father by saying do it. The man is thirsting for recognition and an "attaboy" on the back.
Tomorrow...who knows...he could bounce back into another world entirely.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Is how much he wants you to fix his R with the children
As messed up as it is
At least he desires the connection
Even if he has no current skills to make them
Depression is blinding
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
DnJ: that was the most truth darts I ever gave him and they included things going back into the marriage, including that the withholding was a severe form of emotional abuse. He said some rotten things to me that were either lies or pretty lame, I think in an effort to lower me in some way. I took it for the usual tit-for-tat.
Peace: this time he came and when he sat down I could see and feel the armor he erected for our talk. I think waiving the pic of OW2 in my face was a way to taunt me. I think I handled that part as well as I could. As we talked, the armor came down. I think when he said he hates talking to me because I filibuster him, he meant that I always get my way, like he is a powerless victim. I think he cries because at the end he can let his guard down. The battle he prepared for is over. I think after so long, he does have feelings for me and I think in that moment they come out a bit. I imagine he isn't happy that he does it and does not like me seeing his vulnerability. He did telling me during the talk that I would never have anything to worry about and he would always take care of me.
Job: I was just very surprised that he went from the whole length of our marriage being awful, to now only the last 10 years. Almost as though he admitted to almost 20 good years. Very, very strange. I hope you are right about his parents. I think his "taking care of them" will amount to the doctor making a phone call once a month and seeing them once or twice a year. I do find it very sad that as he is again telling me he wants to dismiss, he repeated over and over how much he wants it to be done. Doesn't want me to think he might not want to go through with it. I had a good feeling I'd be able to get the money. At one point I thought about asking for all of it, but then I didn't want to go too far. I did tell S that he generously agreed to pay for part of the truck and asked S to thank him for it, which S did.
Gordie: he is definitely wanting to get closer to the kids. I hope that it is legitimate and not just to satisfy OW2 or his family. He repeated over and over again that he wanted 3 things from me pertaining to the kids. I told him that I was not making any promises and that he did the damage and needed to put in the effort. He does seem to be trying with S, but his efforts usually don't last long. It will be interesting to see if I get any reports from D, but even if she does hear from him, she will probably not tell me. She just doesn't care and doesn't like to talk about him period.
S texted me from school to say that the wound was leaking blood. I contacted Dr. OD and asked if I should take him to the doctor or keep an eye on it. They used glue to seal the wound, so I wasn't sure if something leaking out was a good thing or bad. He said to keep an eye on it and take him to the PCP if necessary. It was the quickest he ever got back to me (and there have been a few other health issues over the last few years). It was definitely not snotty, which he normally is. I thanked him for the response and said I'd keep an eye on it. I wish we could have this kind of normal, civil, exchange on a regular basis, but it depends on which personality he is turning toward me and how well things are going in his life.
I'm not holding my breath on anything here. Maybe he will dismiss, maybe he won't. Maybe he'll come next week to discuss resolution, maybe he won't.
Well, that didn't take long. His lawyer had the dismissal to my lawyer before 8 am the day after we spoke. I find this shocking. The guy never gets anything done and delays, delays, delays, but dismissing his own divorce, he can do that in record time (I wonder if that was the email he sent while we were talking?). Still hasn't gotten back to me with what day/time he is coming next week to "get the agreement done" (you know, the one he has had for more than 2 years). Oy vey.
