It sounds like your friend who pushed you to date had your best interests at heart. It is always good to push the limits of our comfort zone, that is when we experience the most growth. It is also good because we can learn where our true limits are. It may very well be that that type of dating is not for you. You need to follow your values.
That said, it is exciting to hear that you are meeting with a respectable guy who is going through a similar situation. Connecting with people is always the goal even if it doesn't become romantic. I hope it goes well! You deserve a quality guy in your life.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Consider meeting people via an app a 180 for you... something Nic would have never done before. Don't be afraid of something so out of the box... remember you don't have to actually go on a date with anyone you don't want to AND nothing wrong with establishing just meeting as friends. Nic when I did online dating most of the guys I met up with were not who I wanted to date BUT 1) I got my practice in so when I did find someone and I was ready I wasn't a squeaky wheel in interpersonal skills, and 2) I made some decent friends... people to hang out with when needed, grab a snack or a beer. I learned how to let myself have fun. I wasn't sleeping with any of these people... but it got me out of the house and taught me what I was looking for and not looking for in future prospects.
Just because one meeting wasn't a fit try something else. Remember even if you go you might bump into that one person who is also looking for support that may also not be a good fit for that group... you might develop a friendship that leads to a mini support group of the 2 of you. That happened to a friend of mine and years later though they have both moved on into new marriages... they are still friends.
It [censored] to have to keep putting yourself out there... I know. I was there. But, it really will help. New experiences, new things... things that cannot have any connection to the old Nic or your old M are what you need... NOT mutual friends. I will stress not to involve mutual friends in any way in your M problems. Its not a good thing. Re-read your DB book. That's why new friends and new experiences are a must.
You are incredibly gifted. And, you do an amazing job of journaling. You are working though more than you know. Hang in there.
Davide and KitKat, I'll try to keep an open mind although I think until I'm divorced and my circumstances are better I'll hold off on meeting anyone else. I ended the subscription to the dating app. I think a little glimpse was enough for me. I'll meet the one guy I met who agreed to be friends tomorrow night if the weather cooperates. I do appreciate your advice though and I'll keep it in mind for the future. I'll also try to consider this brief experience to be a 180 and I'll keep re-assessing things as I go along.
I do want to add one more update. I was checking the value of the house we own where my husband still lives and I came across public records that show his girlfriend's address is listed as our address. So she lives there with him in our house. I have a greater understanding now of what happened over the past year - he met her, wanted a divorce, then I moved away and he was too busy to file, then something happened with his girlfriend over the summer and he became nice and started acting normal again like he was getting close to reconciling. Then, sometime around August or early September, he changed again and all the threats about divorce a few weeks ago followed the same script from last year. So it seems he and his girlfriend broke up at some point, then reconciled and she moved in this fall (she wasn't living there yet when I left last year because I went to get my stuff and also our old neighbors reported what they saw).
Obviously it's terrible knowing that the house we built with so many hopes and dreams were destroyed by this woman who inserted herself into the life of a married man with a young child, but I think it may also build the case for infidelity. Our state where we were living doesn't recognize legal separations so with the lack of paperwork we're still married and I'm still an owner of the home. With documented evidence that his mistress moved in I think that might work in my favor. I already contacted a few law firms the past two weeks and I will see a new lawyer here in this state to see what they advise. The main problem is I have debt on my credit card from this ordeal and I lost all my savings so I can't afford $10,000 + right now without borrowing from friends which I really don't want to do. I also still don't want to file myself because I never wanted this divorce, but based on what would offer the best financial outcome, one that would offer our daughter the best chance at life (not struggling financially with her mom while her father is out smothering his girlfriend with a luxury life), I'll see what makes sense.
This ordeal has been going on for so long that I see how infidelity changes someone. When my husband meets a woman or he's in a new relationship he turns into an unrecognizable monster. But it seems as soon as those relationships end he's nice again. So I do expect unless I really was a horrible wife and his girlfriend is his perfect match that at some point their relationship will end and he'll be back again, but the longer this goes on the longer it would take to reconcile. With years of this behavior it would take years to reconcile, and I'm sure 99.9% of the population would never want to reconcile with such a person. I'll always be open to reconciling with someone who undergoes radical change and remorse that can be demonstrated over a long period of time but with our daughter at risk of being harmed by her father being so unstable I know the chances are low. I just wish I could find a way to avoid him getting any custody of her, or minimal custody, so she's not exposed to women like the one right now who willingly stole her father away from her. I can't imagine a worse thing for a child. A woman who cares nothing for the child's wellbeing, who takes the child's resources for herself, and who probably won't be in the picture in the long-term, suddenly becoming a mother figure in the child's life. There just has to be a law that prevents this, but it seems there's not.
If there's no choice except to go through with a divorce that I never wanted I only wish the law would be in the favor of my daughter and I to prevent this injustice from becoming worse than it already is.
I wanted to add for those who may not have been on the forum recently that I did respond to all of the old messages if you go back a few posts. I really appreciated everyone who posted in the last month and I want to make sure you know I responded to your input. Thanks again!
Nicole, a friend of mine told me "the judicial system is a great way to get money, but don't expect justice." I have found that to be true on multiple occasions. It doesn't seem "right", considering what you and D are going through, but the law says he has every right to do what he is doing, and all you have is the right to half the marital assets. Doesn't seem fair, does it?
SoTorn had an interesting reply on cell phones on my thread. I expect you'll read it eventually, but he basically says your D carries the same risks whether she carries a cell phone or not. I'm not trying to push you into a cell phone, but I wonder if her not having a cell phone might be so you can have an excuse to talk to WH when he calls D.
((hugs))
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Your H is going to have these same problems with every woman he meets IMO. He has to look at himself to fix himself. And hopefully you have been and still are improving. Maybe your H will see that one day and decide to change, and maybe not.
I hope you get out and meet some people and have fun and enjoy life in the meantime and try your best to forget about this guy. I think you don't have to "date" per se, but that you should get out and flirt and have fun and just let the world remind you that you are attractive, important, and wanted. That will do so much for your mindset. I'd find a way to make that happen. Get a sitter, etc.
When you look back on all of this, you're going to wonder why you were so easy on your H and why you let him get to you all these times.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Appreciate the long post about your religious upbringing and your beliefs over time. I don't really have much to comment on that, but I do understand the difficulty in developing a strong conviction. I think you have to become comfortable with knowing that you may never have a complete black/white level of conviction. In my own case, I don't know if the path that I have chosen is the right one from a spiritual standpoint. However, I do know that my path is the one that is truly reflective of my values and how I see the world. I went back to the drawing board to square one and disassembled all the religious beliefs and values that I was 'supposed' to follow, and did a deep dive in understanding them and why they mattered or didn't matter to me. I questioned all of it and removed any emotional attachment, experiences, or how I was raised to create as much objectivity as I could. We can never be fully objective, but I wanted to remove as much bias as I could. And after all of that, I was able to hone down the values that mattered to me, and more importantly, why they mattered to me outside of any religious decree or interpretation of any holy text.
And then I came to the conclusion that my values mattered more to me to live a truthful and honest life, and I wouldn't try to compromise them so that I could be part of a religion. But the question that I used to work through all the noise was - why do I believe what I believe and why does this value matter to me? If the answer was - because it says so in the religion, even if there was some explanation for it - I would highly question it and see if it was how I truly felt about it. That was my process. I am not suggesting it is a correct process, but one that I could live with and the answers it provided. I am much happier now and I can use that as a gauge for my decision and process.
I am a lover of words and language and I really believe in crafting empowering and truthful ways to express myself. How other people use language can also be revealing as well. This is just my read of what you wrote, and I may be wrong, but I wanted to point it out to you.
You talked about how the OW 'inserted' herself into the life of a married man. I found that super intriguing. To me it suggests that you are giving your H a wider berth on his actions and that the 'fault' resides with this woman rather than your H. She didn't insert herself into anything that your H wasn't willing to get into. In fact, she wouldn't have inserted herself at all if your H hadn't decided to step out of the marriage. I just feel that at some mental and emotional level, you are letting H off the hook for his behaviour as you want him to come back and restore the marriage. For me, this aligns with what you said about your strong convictions towards marriage.
I point that all out because you're selling yourself short. There is plethora of evidence that points to his character, including what you just found out about the house, and yet, you would rather stick to your conviction than move on. I would really question that if I were you. Why would you want to stick to a garbage marriage with a terrible partner, vs. eating up the losses and charting a new life forward? What is it about the idea of 'marriage' that you can't let go of? Yes, people vowed to be there through thick and thin of life, but they broke the rules of the game and that $ucks and it's unfair and tragic, but why still desire that when the past M is completely over and done with?
If nothing, find conviction to be good to your present and future self, and forgive the past self.
Nicole, I have seen for almost a year now how full of kindness you are. You want to see the better side of your WH even when it is plain that he is being a colossal @ss. For the next few months, extend the same kindness to yourself. Make you priority. Find all the ways you can feel better and practice self love. If our S failed to pay us back with love and kindness, we should be capable of that ourselves and this is something we need to do forever in life with all Rs. Ask yourself what will it take to make yourself priority? What will it take to heal at a more steady pace?
Hi All, I hope to respond to all of your threads soon but here's a quick update from my end:
Jim, I know I often sound pitiful but I actually don't have any interest in talking with my husband or in hearing his voice, especially after the new turmoil he created over the holidays. I called him once since April and aside from that I talk if he asks specifically for me or if there's something important (like asking if he agrees that our daughter will travel overseas). For the cell phone thing it's not radiation but certain phones have a warning that says "chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer or reproductive harm." I assume they have lead or flame retardants or whatever else is toxic. With radiation I already know that my child and many others are getting too much for our adult phones, iPads, etc... I think he should buy her an iPhone with her own line that he pays himself. I'll ask him at some point but I don't really feel like communicating with him at the moment.
Maika, it's intriguing to hear about your thought process on religion and how you've evolved! I wish to write more but I want to address your other point too. I'm completely guilty of feeling negative feelings towards the other woman. I've already known about my husband's character flaws, lies, cheating, etc.. for a time but after the confirmation that this other woman lives in our house I feel acute anger at her. She's a participant in this situation and she's an enabling factor for a man to leave his wife and child. I feel she's just as guilty as he is, and she is a bad human being for moving into someone else's house under these circumstances, using facilities that we designed as a family for our daughter, taking our resources, and the list goes on. I guess I already know how bad my husband is but if there were not an abundance of "other women" and "other men" out there tempting our spouses to leave, and rewarding them for leaving, making them feel they're living their fantasy lives, there'd likely be less of these divorces due to infidelity. I know it's wrong to comment on the other woman as she's only half of the equation, but it's difficult to not feel anger at her living in our dream house that we designed together after struggling for ten years to have the resources to build it. It's also a bold move for her to register it as her legal address when it's a home that I legally own. It's just hard. It's not fair.
Sia, thanks for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. You know I've done things like get my hair highlighted, order books that I want to read, go to bed early some nights to get enough sleep instead of doing other stuff, etc.. I'll try to do more of these things, but my time and budget are already stretched beyond their limits so I need to work on making structural changes such as creating the financial resources to get a nanny and cleaning lady. This probably can't happen until we reach a divorce settlement. For now I have a schedule where I work only six hours during the day and two hours at night so I can spend more time with my daughter but as a trade-off there's less time for myself. Still, together we have many social activities in the evenings that we enjoy together and we spend one-on-one time on the weekends. I'm trying to appreciate these fleeting days to be together before she gets older and more independent. Each day with her is a gift and I had planned to work only part-time for at least several more years. Now that dream is destroyed so I'm trying to appreciate the small amount of time we have. I know someday I'll have all the time in the world for just myself. I'm sure you know the feeling having to work full-time and share your kids with your husband how precious time with our children is. In your case it's great though that you have a little time for yourself, despite having never chosen these circumstances, but I imagine it's the first time in a long time that you're free to discover your own hobbies and care for yourself alone. It'd be great to hear your updates.
All, so I met the guy from the dating app last weekend. He changed the plan the day before and then we met and it was nice. We talked for a few hours. He was respectful but he was much happier about his divorce than I am so I didn't feel we connected well even as friends in that regard. He asked if we could meet for lunch this Friday and I said sure, but I didn't text him after we met. I don't want to date him and I don't want him to think I'm interested. He didn't text me either, so perhaps we'll never speak again which is ok! I don't have any other plans to meet anyone online or use any more dating apps. Maybe someday after divorce I'll try again but I'm not too optimistic based on what I saw.
Yesterday I saw a divorce attorney. I was really disappointed. Just like the other one I saw, this one said that my husband is already paying what he'd owe each month if we were divorced, we don't have any issues surrounding custody, and he can't sell our house without my permission, so she doesn't see any reason why I should file for divorce. She said she recommends just waiting which is what the other attorney said as well. I doubt I'll seek any other legal advice unless necessary after my husband files for divorce because now I've spent over $600 this past year on attorney fees only to be told what's available through online resources.
In general I've felt pretty negative about this situation although on the other hand I had some more recent medical tests that came back good, my career is going well, and I'm thankful for my daughter. I feel now like I understand what happened to my marriage. When my husband is in love with another woman he's totally gone but when it ends he's back. That doesn't mean I'll be able to take him back after the destruction he's caused, nor does it mean he's ever likely to return again now that he's lived this fantasy life and will probably want to re-create it even if it ends with the current woman, plus he may have only ever used me for immigration purposes, but it's somehow helpful to understand how and why someone can change so radically.
When you go on a first date, if a guy is telling you he is still bitter about his divorce, that's usually the turnoff. If he was expressing pure happiness at being divorced, I understand. But if he is accepting of what happened and is making his life the best it can be given the circumstances, that is great for him. That should be an absolute positive!
I am not happy about my divorce. But I project a positive attitude that I will make the best of my life because I accept what happened. Actually, I do see it as a blessing in disguise because my ex is not a good person and my daughter would have grown up seeing her mother mistreated. So, if he was never going to change, I am grateful for the blessing in disguise, but I am not happy I am divorced. I would have much rather him have grown up and learned to treat others better. But I had zero control over that. I am happy with my life now, but it doesn't mean I am happy I am divorced.
You say you figured it out "When my husband is in love with another woman He's totally gone" Do you see what is so wrong with this? Your husband should not be in love with another woman. He is making that choice. Of course he is gone when he is in love with another woman. You are not a place holder until the next love of his life comes along. You are his wife.
I greatly fear for you that when he falls out of love with this woman, he will come right back to the place you will hold for him and as soon as he falls in love with another woman, he will leave you high and dry again. Clearly that is his MO. I know your religious views on marriage, but what are the religious rules on adultery which he commits pure and simple? That is not religious grounds for ending a marriage? I am asking seriously. Does your religion allow for repeated adultery within the marriage?
As far as everything being status quo right now. Legally, there is no need for a divorce. You may need one if you want to morally move on with your life. I know a couple that lived as if they were divorced for years because they had the money and custody all worked out amongst themselves. Until he had a girlfriend that made him get divorced, they didn't.
If you need the divorce legally to move on emotionally, I imagine it would be a simple one. If you don't want a divorce but can live your full like without leave the door so wide and easily open, then don't get one.
But think of your reasons and what you hope to accomplish. I only wish the best for you. My heart goes out to you.
Thanks for your response! For once I get to respond quickly. The guy I met left his wife and said she had mental problems. As he described how she wanted to buy a house and have more kids but he ended it with her because she can't regulate her emotions I can't help but wonder about her side of the story. I can imagine my husband saying the same thing to his other woman. This guy says he offered her a chance to get treatment but the way he said he's feeling great about his divorce didn't seem right. He has a young child. He was still a respectable guy and I appreciate that he was fine with meeting as friends but there's probably no need to stay in touch.
Yes it's so wrong with a husband to fall in love with another woman. The part that didn't make sense over the past year was all the blame he cast upon me, changing our entire story saying he never loved me, then being really nice for a number of months and then going back to the angry guy again.....it fits well with what's written about affairs here and in other places. He's totally gone when things are going well with the other woman but he warms up when they're having problems. It's hard to understand this fully before it becomes a cycle. In the beginning I questioned all the things that I did wrong even though I know it's not my fault that he cheated. But this concept of a fantasy life shows up well in my case with my husband abandoning real life for fun and leisure with a woman he never would have respected before. All these years I was the 'best wife' and 'perfect woman' for being modest and for everything I did to support him. Now he's with a woman who, on facebook, has only pictures of her wearing a bikini on the beach holding a beer in her hand or sitting in a bar with her friends drinking shots. It's hard not to feel hurt knowing someone like that is living in my house enjoying everything I worked so hard for. Anyway I don't mean to keep repeating myself. I'm sure I'll better accept this latest bad news after it sinks in more.
I'm just curious, with your ex-husband, does he seem to be a great husband to the woman he's with now? Did he seem to have matured and grown over the years? Or do you still seem him acting the same way? I often wonder about the long term prospects of men like these, not because I have hope for my husband but because
I appreciate your fear about my husband coming back and me taking him back again. As I've written in the past that's no longer possible because we've been through this several times now. I may be hurt and broken but I'm still rational. I've learned a lot from the mistake of taking him back once before. I still love the version of him that I married but he'd have to go through long-term counseling and turn his life around before we could ever try again, but I think it'll be five to ten years before he'd reach that point. If he had come back last year totally remorseful and he had started counseling before I had already moved and started over I may have been more likely to give him a chance. I was still so shocked and broken at that time but now a lot of time has passed and I know we can't go through that again.
I still never wanted a divorce so I still don't want to file if two attorneys suggested I wait. I'd only *need* to file if I wanted to get re-married but I don't see any prospect of that in the near horizon. I do wish, however, that someday I could find a man who I'd love as much as my original husband and who wouldn't leave. It'd be nice to have that experience in life, to have a real partner and to experience real love, but not everyone gets to have that. I'm still thankful for my beautiful daughter and I wish more than anything I could have given her a life with two parents and a nice house but I'll do whatever I can to still giver her the best chance possible in life.
