just completely done RIGHT NOW to want a D with a new born baby.
?????? Please clarify.
It means that IMO she has really checked out to pursue a D with a newborn. Something drastically obviously changed over the last 12 months. You don't have a baby with someone you plan on divorcing.
It means that IMO she has really checked out to pursue a D with a newborn. Something drastically obviously changed over the last 12 months. You don't have a baby with someone you plan on divorcing.
Tbh, neither of us planning on having YS at the time. (We’re Catholic and until this pregnancy practiced Natural Family Planning—timing was off, and tada pregnant.)
Fits the timeline—ILYBINILWY BD in Feb. (early pregancy), things “didn’t really get better” in October (post-pregnancy).
Back in Oct., she originally told me about proposing a break or an S—what I found hard to understand was “you’re gonna do this with a small child? Okay then man that is dumb why would you.....” (my internal thoughts).
I'm sorry you found yourself here. My ex left me when our D was 6 months old. The one we went through surgery for him, IVF for me to have. He claimed no other woman. Well, there was for sure another woman. I could also tell you, my ex wouldn't have left me if there was another woman.
I am sorry, but I am 99.9% sure she is having an affair. I would lawyer up and fight like heck to get your 50% of custody.
I am sorry, but I am 99.9% sure she is having an affair.
What’s wild is that last night, she asked me if there was anyone else on MY end. “I don’t know if there is another person for you, I don’t want to know.....”
Narrator Voice: There’s not, but I also know I need to keep my guard up because I’m sure I’m ripe for an EA / PA if things ever aligned. Won’t do that, but need to be strong in that regard.
What’s wild is that last night, she asked me if there was anyone else on MY end. “I don’t know if there is another person for you, I don’t want to know.....”
It's very common for the guilty party to project what they are doing on to the innocent party.
It would be really rare for a woman with a newborn to let go of a branch without having another branch to hold onto.
It's very common for the guilty party to project what they are doing on to the innocent party.
It would be really rare for a woman with a newborn to let go of a branch without having another branch to hold onto.
Sounds like classic projection.
The other branch(es) that she will hold on to are her mom and her dad. She told me how worried she is for me—I don’t have family / support network out her to look after me or take care of me financially. Her mom is out here, and both her mom and her dad are relatively well-off financially.
To me, this looks like concern-trolling of the highest-order—hey, I’m gonna divorce you, but I’m really worried about how you’re going to make it.
W and I had a very long chat tonight, and I’ll try to recap some of the highlights.
She wanted my thoughts on the parenting plan.....I basically said what LH proposed.....and she did NOT take that well at all. She basically went all fire and brimstone on me and said that I should take what she is proposing (she is proposing joint custody—not primary custody), and that I should really think about all this because what kinda judge will side with me if I choose to fight this—that judges will side with the mother and award primary custody TO HER.
She basically also threatened me with the fact that she could start the divorce proceedings and get a court order to get me out of the house—that it could always come down to that. She also asked me to consider if I could really afford the place on my own (I can’t—but neither can she by herself), but I’m not sure what she knows about CA community property laws regarding assets / debts (she believes that my credit cards would not be split because the accounts were opened BEFORE we were married, which is true; however, what I believe is that any debt incurred DURING the marriage would be split—I don’t think she considers that, if that is indeed true, and if it is true, I’m wondering what that may mean for her thoughts).
Now that part is interesting....because then she launched into, and this will sound crass, basically the typical WAS spiel. That’s she is DONE, that’s she not been happy, that she’s never been happy, that she’s told me to change this and that and that I never did or never would, and that she checked out long ago. She also talked about how much she was HURT in the last few years and that I caused her so much HURT....and I am indeed sad about that and told her that my intent was never to hurt her. What I am afraid of though is that she could escalate and use her ‘hurt-ness’ as a claim of abuse to basically evict me.
After a lot of fire and brimstone and posturing, and my attempts and validating (which she can’t stand because to her they seem fake), we finally started to get in to some real talking, and for that she thanked me. And I got an ILY from her for the first time in a long time—that she loves me, and will always love me, no matter what happens. What she really wanted earlier this month was to know my thoughts on the conversation that we had during dinner on Friday the 4th. I asked her ‘would it matter?’ She basically was all ‘try me.’ I basically echoed something Steve posted about ‘I love you, and I believe that what we have can be saved if we can put the work in, but I’m not going to force her to stay.’ And I do believe that, and I tried to communicate that to her. But she also started to acknowledge that she could continue to try. But also that I would have to try—she admitted that she wants a partner, and she brought up examples of how I didn’t do that or haven’t done that (that I didn’t hold her hand through every contraction when she was pregnant with Isaac because I was looking at my phone—I know, I was stupid for that and I feel so guilty, but I was there and with her when she said she needed me—when she could feel the contractions coming she would call me over and I would be right there when she called. I know, 180–and man do I feel like a POS husband for that.)
I asked her if she would be wiling to do MC—she said yes, but a secular one, not a Catholic or Christian one (not Catholic because she doesn’t want to be shamed re: birth control; not Christian because she doesn’t want any ‘submissive or obedient’ talk directed her way).
Supposedly, our October conversation where she floated the possibility of a break or an S allegedly sealed the divorce option in her eyes because I ‘freaked out’ in her eyes. That I talked about how wives should be submissive and obedient towards their husbands (when did I say that, or if I did, the meaning was totally lost—WTF), or that because she was doing the IUD that I would consider having sex with her sinful and that I didn’t want to participate in her sin or something like that (once again, WTF did I say that)? I haven’t been asking for sex not because I find it sinful, but because it is ‘pursuit,’ and I’ve realized that she hasn’t been wanting that from me for a while.
She told me that I would need to put myself aside, not only for the parenting plan, but also the implication is that if I want any chance / future with her, I would need to do that with her. I thought I’ve done it before, but apparently I have not. And she brought up the birth control / IUD angle—this may not be DB principles, but I tried to affirm for her that this is an instance where I would be willing to put that aside and lay that down—and I recall telling her at that time that although I didn’t like the IUD and am not okay with this, I’m also not willing to blow up our marriage over this.
She feels like she would be a better parent without me—that she is always having to walk on eggshells around me—hence, the bird-nesting proposal, but also the separation, in general.
Basically: She wants to get paperwork started, file for divorce, but can’t do it without a signed custody agreement (hence, the parenting plan for bird-nesting)—but what she wants is basically time apart FROM ME (which I’ve never really understood—she gets tons of time for travel for work—yes I know she’s working, but she would also tell me that she would have all this downtime after her work hours where she could relax / sleep / be by herself—and all that wasn’t enough?) She admits that this time apart now would be for her to process her feelings, and she warned me to not read too much into this. So, detachment and no expectations. I wonder if she’s been DB’ing. I actually see a faint glimmer of hope for our relationship—I could be totally wrong, but yeah no expectations.
What she wants to do is file for divorce to get the separation started, if that makes sense (to me that sounds backwards, but whatever). We do this bird-nesting thing (or whatever proposal we come up with) for about a year, and then sometime towards the end of that year we (re-)evaluate where we are at with everything—should we stay together, or actually continue to follow through with the divorce.
I guess what I need right now is: What should I do? I’ve tried DB’ing as best as I could the last couple of months, but if anything it’s pushed her further away from me, it seems like. My attempts at detaching and validation—have they been good enough? Well, if the goal is to get her back, the answer is clearly ‘no’—but that’s not the goal, especially now—for me, I’m coming to realize that detachment means not get s*cked into another person’s crazy—don’t let another person’s emotions affect you—even though it doesn’t seem like it now.
So—what should I do? 180s. Detach. Validate.
Did I screw things up even more? Or is there more hope? Or do I deserve a ton of 2x4s for tonight?
Bo, finally got to read through this. She is manipulating you. Notice, she emediately jumped on you when you said you didn't want to do the bird nesting. Then she calmed down, threw out the idea of trying. Then she agreed to MC (with stipulations which means she's still wayward!). Then came back to a plan that again involved bird nesting. Manipulation.
And yes, she sounds capable of lying about abuse in order to get you out of the house. Be wary of that veiled threat. I'd get a lawyer and fast!
On the bird nesting. The thing that kept coming back to me is an adage I really believe. As you pointed out she doesn't need that to have time and space, she gets plenty now! She doesn't need it for any of the reasons she's given. The adage is this: women don't need their own place to find themselves. Or to figure things out. Or to decide what they want. That's a lie. Women need their own place to sleep with other people. This bird nesting idea isn't about your marriage. It's about her wanting to do what she wants to do.
Lawyer. And stat. You have a tinder box here. You're either going to end up in an arrangement that you do not want (bird nesting) or things could get ugly. Not a pleasant place to be in. Knowledge is power. Get a lawyer so you know your rights.
Also, DBing is not something that you judge in a day, week, month or two months. DBing is like long term investing. You need to give it time to see a trend. It isn't about "did it with today, or this week". It is a long term thing. Also DBing isn't about saving your marriage. It sometimes had that side effect. It's about saving yourself. That's what GAL, 180s and detachment do. They help you save you! If your marriage comes along for the ride, then so be it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I’ll need to call that lawyer back. W wants answers, and she wants deadlines. She wants to get this going ASAP, because it will take 6-9 months through the courts.
Couple more things #foodforthought:
W told me last night that she was worried sick that while I was home on Christmas Break with the boys, that I would just up and take them from her and from the residence. I know, I know, don’t reason with them—but where would I go? She’s the one with family here in SoCal.
W has accused me of being so ‘fake’ the last couple weeks / couple months, as I’ve really tried the detaching / validating. (What has worked for validating is basically repeating the last thing she told me back to her as a question—I’ve found that helpful / constructive more so than anything, so will continue to do that.) She told me she absolutely hated what I’ve been doing / what I’ve become, and she always wondered if I had some sort of ‘smoking gun’ on her that I was going to spring on her and deploy.
W has accused me of being so ‘fake’ the last couple weeks / couple months, as I’ve really tried the detaching / validating. (What has worked for validating is basically repeating the last thing she told me back to her as a question—I’ve found that helpful / constructive more so than anything, so will continue to do that.) She told me she absolutely hated what I’ve been doing / what I’ve become, and she always wondered if I had some sort of ‘smoking gun’ on her that I was going to spring on her and deploy.
