two steps forward, three steps back (burned)

[TJT]

L thinks I should stop trying to figure out what her angle is, and be somewhat less terse. Last night I said, "I'll transfer the money after the divorce is final." L thinks I could have said, "It is safer for both of us to do the transfer once there is an order in place."

Oh, and IC says it doesn't matter what she thinks, she'll come back or she won't (sounds familiar, hmm). He says, You're using this as an opportunity to practice doing what's right for you, so that you stop being the kind of person who just says "yes dear" and then resents it forever, thereby making you a better husband for someone else in the future.

Your L and IC are both exactly right (and prove I'm not good at brevity, hah). I would make one adjustment to what your IC said though, in that I don't see where you've been doing the "yes dear" thing... it seems the opposite where you get gnarly and fight when you're angry, and THAT'S what you resent.

Either way, the part about being a better husband in the future - whether it's with your W or with someone else - is the key.

And also, you don't have to live with regret if you learn from it. You will really regret it if you spend too much time wallowing in what you did wrong to where you don't improve and then just repeat history. In the super grand scheme of things, you still have a lot of opportunity to have a great life and be a great husband (there I go again saying things I hate people saying to me, lol).

That being said...sometime you do need to take these things bit by bit and not overwhelm yourself by thinking that far ahead. Keep that perspective in your mind but stay sane by focusing on what you are going to do in the next minute, hour, and day. Do not look out years at a time. You can't plan for that.

[Ginger1]

[quote=burned]

Oh, and she has been in IC since right before the A began. She ONCE mentioned MC back then, and never followed up after I said I didn’t think it was necessary. Almost like she just said it so that she could say she mentioned it and I said no. Seriously? If you thought we needed it, why didn’t you ask again? Ugh. Anyway, after physical S (before I knew about DB) she talked about IC and how it felt so good to learn to be assertive and to trust her feelings and act according to them. So a lot of good that did. Gonna end it here so I don’t lose my temper.

quote]

For real? You are blaming her for not asking you again after you turned her down. She asked you in the first place because she felt you needed it. You decided that you did not, then she respected your answer and she is the one at fault for this interaction?

Look at this real close, burned.

[burned]

you get gnarly and fight when you're angry, and THAT'S what you resent.

Can you explain this in more detail? Sometimes I feel like I can't tell the difference between being assertive and fighting, and I'm afraid I'm consistently botching my interactions with W because of it. Am I coming across as vindictive or aggressive, based on what I post here? Do you mean that I resent the fact that I get gnarly?

[burned]

For real? You are blaming her for not asking you again after you turned her down. She asked you in the first place because she felt you needed it. You decided that you did not, then she respected your answer and she is the one at fault for this interaction?

Look at this real close, burned.

I am, and it's hard. It's a major regret. I recall the incident very clearly. I said, "No, that's only for people who are about to get divorced."

I had no idea how serious she was. The way she asked, it was "Do you think we should do MC?" She never sat me down and said, "I am unhappy in this M and I think if we don't do MC I won't be able to go on." So I misread it, very very badly. I'm ashamed of it. It's yet another of the things she had been telling me and telling me and I hadn't been hearing it. It's easy for me to blame her for not having been assertive enough or clear enough or direct enough, but it's on ME that I didn't care enough or pay enough attention to really sense her intentions.

After BD I told her I regretted that and I told her I wish I had done it. Too late.

But do you see why I wallow in regret? The more I think about things, the more I realize that I really blew it. And why I'm resistant to the idea that she is just in a "fog" and might change her mind. The way I see it, it was a very unhappy relationship for her. I don't really blame her for wanting out, when I really look at it.

[Ginger1]

Truth is, she isn't just in a fog. An A is never right. I am not excusing her A at all. It very well could have been a very unhappy relationship for her. And you very well could have "blown it" by not hearing her. Those actions should have been regretted, but to wallow in it, won't accomplish anything. Seeing how you were and why you were the way you were and making the strides to fix it is all you can do.

But I quoted what you said, because you are still blaming her!

When a woman feels awfully unheard or disregarded (or even a man, I am sure) it takes a of strength to ask for something and say how they feel. That first time coming to you probably was REALLY difficult for her. To do it again seemed impossible.

I am not saying this is you, but I lived with an H who never heard me, disregarded everything I said and every feeling I ever had, and sometimes called them stupid. So to even ask my exH for an ounce of something took all my courage and willpower. And I never ever would dream about trying again when I got turned down or insulted.

These are lessons to learn from and not something to wallow in. You'll only benefit in the long run.

[Phoenix9]

For real? You are blaming her for not asking you again after you turned her down. She asked you in the first place because she felt you needed it. You decided that you did not, then she respected your answer and she is the one at fault for this interaction?

Look at this real close, burned.

I am, and it's hard. It's a major regret. I recall the incident very clearly. I said, "No, that's only for people who are about to get divorced."

I had no idea how serious she was. The way she asked, it was "Do you think we should do MC?" She never sat me down and said, "I am unhappy in this M and I think if we don't do MC I won't be able to go on." So I misread it, very very badly. I'm ashamed of it. It's yet another of the things she had been telling me and telling me and I hadn't been hearing it. It's easy for me to blame her for not having been assertive enough or clear enough or direct enough, but it's on ME that I didn't care enough or pay enough attention to really sense her intentions.

After BD I told her I regretted that and I told her I wish I had done it. Too late.

But do you see why I wallow in regret? The more I think about things, the more I realize that I really blew it. And why I'm resistant to the idea that she is just in a "fog" and might change her mind. The way I see it, it was a very unhappy relationship for her. I don't really blame her for wanting out, when I really look at it.

B,

Nearly the exact same circumstances were in my sitch leading to BD. WW practically begged for help and I brushed it off, because I thought we would be able to weather the storm a little longer.

I was wrong. And yeah, I do have regrets about not seeing this sooner, I'm sure we all do. And we are here, learning the tools needed to have a successful R/MR, whether it's with our WS or with someone else.

To be honest, I think we needed something as awful as this to truly see our shortcomings as not only a S, but as relatives, friends, employees, etc.

I remember earlier in my sitch when I was told that DBing cannot just be applied to MR, but to all interactions. I lashed out because I had no idea how such a concept could be applied in my life.

I am understand it now. And they were right. DBing is not just for MR. DB is for everything in life that requires interaction.

You need to work on forgiving yourself. Otherwise you are going to have a hard time recovering from this.

[burned]

I am not saying this is you, but I lived with an H who never heard me, disregarded everything I said and every feeling I ever had, and sometimes called them stupid. So to even ask my exH for an ounce of something took all my courage and willpower. And I never ever would dream about trying again when I got turned down or insulted.

That hits pretty close to home.

And it's why I worry that taking the WW "tough love" approach that I started doing in September made it worse.

[Vapo]

I am not saying this is you, but I lived with an H who never heard me, disregarded everything I said and every feeling I ever had, and sometimes called them stupid. So to even ask my exH for an ounce of something took all my courage and willpower. And I never ever would dream about trying again when I got turned down or insulted.

That hits pretty close to home.

And it's why I worry that taking the WW "tough love" approach that I started doing in September made it worse.

Be it as it may. Pour yourself a big cup of STFU juice and get your a$$ in gear. Wallowing in despair and pointless regret is utterly futile and a literal waste of time. And the more time you waste, you prolong your healing and slow your growing. Dude, you have serious growing to do. SERIOUS.

And again, chastising yourself about your September actions and worrying what im might as or has not done to your R is about as useless as snow cover stats of midwest Colorado in 2005-06 season.

[harvey]

Let her go. If you love her, you will do that. That is unconditional love. Let her take her journey. If her future doesn't include you, so be it. I think it's healthy for some people to keep hope, but I think it keeps you stuck.

[burned]

Eventful day. Got fed up with waiting for W to “fill out forms and mail them” so I emailed her my proposal today. L thought it was very favorable to me and fair to W. W had a couple questions which I answered to her satisfaction.

She didn’t put up a fight, and it doesn’t seem to bother her that things are moving forward. Apparently it’s easier to get a D than to adopt a dog. We could go to court tomorrow morning and be done before lunch.

It all just hurts. She really just doesn’t care, apparently. She just wants out. I know it’s not FACTUALLY true but I FEEL like some kind of ogre, that she would just nonchalantly agree to the terms and run away. I’ve been reading lots of old threads, R2C quotes threads, etc. to try to find some solace. Nothing is helping. Whatever she’s after is so much “better” than our M, in her mind, that she’s willing to just say “F it” and move on. I know we don’t have kids and I’m young and so forth, so maybe it’s wrong of me to piss and moan about how hard this is. But I’m human too.

I haven’t clicked “send” yet but my next email to her is, “Sounds good, do you have time this week to meet me at the courthouse?” If it’s gonna happen anyway and she clearly wants it, it’ll be over and done before the weekend.

Sort of feels like a Mexican standoff or some perverted game of chicken. Well, she didn’t flinch.

I guess I decided that this was a necessary step in the process. Things were stagnant. NC made no diffference. S made no difference. GAL made no difference. 180s were irrelevant because of NC. I stopped trying to control her, which apparently came across as me not caring about her and not having a backbone. To be clear, I’m NOT criticizing DB. I just think in my case it wasn’t effective in saving this M.

But you know what? FUNK that M. It was a piece of SH1T for both of us. I’d never marry the person I was, and if I did I’d divorce the sh1t out of that loser. Burned 2.0 will be better. Someday. W won’t know it because she will be married to OM and doing her part in contributing to the statistics about second marriages. I’ll lick my wounds and then reemerge like a motherdunking EAGLE. (In other words, I think I may have just hit AnotherStander Stage 4 or 5.)

This. Suxcs.

Please hit me with the hickory 2x4s if my thinking needs adjustment. I mean it feels sort of good to take control and torch this nonsense. But in the end I still think she’ll be better off.