I have been reading the site on and off for about a month and decided to share my story to seek some advice. My wife and I have been married for over 12 years and we have two children, S6 and D7.
She has been distant for the past year and I found out in August 2018 that she had been having an emotional affair (EA) for about 9 months, ended in June 2018. I do know that it is over but it did escalate to kissing.
I would call us semi-separated right now. We still live in the same house and do evening activities together with our children (sports, dinner, shopping, etc) but I sleep in a different bedroom and we have limited daily interactions. My wife has told me multiple times that she is done and is waiting to file for divorce after the holidays. She would rather be alone as she has been unhappy for years. We starting going to couples therapy in September and it usually ends the same, she is ready to move on. For the first several months I probably did most things wrong. Although I thought I was giving her space, I was still pursuing her. I gave her gifts, told her I loved her, wrote her letters, asked for more time, was checking phone records, etc. Most of my actions were from the book "The Love Dare." They were daily challenges to let my wife know I still loved her. After I finished all 40 dares, I realized I was pushing her away and needed to do something different. That is when I found this site.
In the past two weeks something small has changed. I realized I cannot convince her/control the situation (one of her key complaints). It feels like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. So what changed? I am not asking her about her weekends away. She usually spends a day or two of the weekend away with a girlfriend. I stopped temperate gauging. I am doing more things on my own, GAL. I am asking less questions about her day. I stopped initiating all physical contact. I stopped telling her I love her. After a couple weeks, she told me last week she missed me.
We went to counseling together last week and she said things have been a lot better and she felt she owed it to me to continue counseling. These are positive steps in that she is showing feelings again. My wife is such a caring person but I have said to a friend, for the past several months I do not know this person. She is cold and distant. This might be slowly changing.
We are still going to spend Christmas apart, like Thanksgiving which will be difficult. Although things are improving some, we have a long, long way to go. She really dislikes my parents and getting rid of me gets rid of them too so I have an uphill battle to fight. My question is how to handle this small change in her? She is a little softer at times and wants to chat. It even feels at times that when we are talking things are back to normal. I usually am quickly reminded it is not!
How should I proceed? Keep doing what I am doing? How do I handle her new found wanting to talk? I appreciate any advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Welcome IU. Absolutely... keep doing what you are doing. You said so yourself. When you were doing the dares, it felt like you were pushing her away. That’s because you were just adding pressure. I am pretty certain that is what I have done with my WAH and he is pretty much gone. Don’t make that same mistake. She is telling you that things are feeling MUCH BETTER so keep doing what you are doing. Patience is the key. I wish I had figured that out in the beginning. Before you do anything, ask yourself... “Is this going to push her away or do the opposite?” When she feels like she might want to leave, you need to do the opposite of what you would do if you knew she wanted to stay and you just needed to work on some things. She is past that point. Keep GAL and DBing. Your situation sounds quite hopeful actually... she needs to miss you more so keep it up. (((Hugs)))
Thank you DejaVu6 for the kind reply and reaffirming my thoughts. I am still very positive but know that we have so much work left to do. Time is my friend and I thankful every day we still have together.
For your WAH, it is never too late. I wish you all the best.
Sorry to hear about your all to familiar sitch. Glad you found this site. Great place for support. Since you have been lurking, I will be more blunt than normal. If it is too much, let me know.
Originally Posted by IU79
I do know that it is over
How?
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but it did escalate to kissing.
Most people initially admit to one (or more) levels lower that reality. We kissed once = we kissed many times. WE didn't have sex = we had sex.
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I sleep in a different bedroom and we have limited daily interactions.
If you are not in the Master bedroom, this is the first thing you should do. We can help you formulate and execute a plan.
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She usually spends a day or two of the weekend away with a girlfriend.
Is this what she tells you, or do you have concrete proof this is the truth?
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I stopped temperate gauging. I am doing more things on my own, GAL. I am asking less questions about her day. I stopped initiating all physical contact. I stopped telling her I love her. After a couple weeks, she told me last week she missed me.
Sounds like this is working. Keep doing what works.
Purchase "Divorce Remedy" and read it as quickly as you can. Keep it in a very safe place so that W never sees it or you reading it. This is your playbook. IT is not meant to be shared with the other team.
Same thing for this website. Make sure you browse "Incognito".
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Speak with your parents. Ask them if they want to be part of the solution or part of the problem. If they say solution, then you guide them. I can help with that later if you would like.
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My question is how to handle this small change in her? She is a little softer at times and wants to chat.
Your job is to listen and understand. If she ask you a direct question, deflection is good at this stage. H:"I am not sure how I feel about that"
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
My question is how to handle this small change in her? She is a little softer at times and wants to chat. It even feels at times that when we are talking things are back to normal. I usually am quickly reminded it is not!
How should I proceed? Keep doing what I am doing? How do I handle her new found wanting to talk? I appreciate any advice.
IU, thanks for sharing your story. Welcome to the best forum I know of for getting advice, and journaling about your sitch.
Before I address your questions above, I have to point out a glaring red-flag. This "weekends away" thing is a bad sign. I don't know too many girlfriends that "go away" for the weekends like that. That behavior, coupled with the rest of her behavior is a huge red flag for a PA. This is important in that some of the suggestion we give to you will be based on whether or not there is an active affair going on. Is she secretive with her phone usage? Spend more time in the bathroom than she used to? Any changes in dress? Grooming? Has she lost weight? Doing her hair different? Suddenly wearing makeup more often?
Early in my sitch with my W's online, long-distance EA, I noticed a couple of odd behaviors. Her bathroom trips became more frequent and longer. She always took her phone with her. She didn't undress in front of me, locked the master bath room door when she showered. One night I noticed her looking at something on her thigh. I asked her about it. When she said she had something (itchy spot?) I noticed that she was shaved. This was mid-January, and she typically doesn't shave (sorry if TMI) the same in the winter as she does in the summer. I brought this up later in MC before she knew I knew that she had sent nude photos to OM. She vehemently denied it. That night she stripped to her underwear to prove to me she hadn't been grooming (this was several weeks after I noticed it originally, AND 2-3 weeks after OM had ended the EA.
Be vigilant. The biggest reason this is important is because you said you two are in MC? If she is in MC and actively in an A then there is no point. Likely she is using MC to just say "we tried MC".
#1 biggest mistake you've made, and you need to correct, is to take back the MBR. Move back in. If she is in an active A, move her stuff out. If not, when she protests you moving back in say blatantly: "You want out of the marriage, YOU move out of the bedroom."
As far as your questions. The reason you are seeing some positive signs is because you started to DB. 180s on bad behavior, GAL, and detachment. These are all proven to cause changes in the WAS. The lack of pressure and pursuit will cause them to wonder what is going on. And then it will cause them to come sniffing around to see what is different. If you detach and GAL well enough she may even, especially if she is engaged in one herself, accuse you of having an A. The key is to NOT stop what is working. Continue to 180, GAL and detach. So many LBSs make the mistake of seeing positive changes, and falling back into pursuit and pressure. That will send her running the other way.
So:
1) Do recon, see if there are signs or evidence of an A. If there are, stop MC. "I feel like we are just going through the motions at this point, so I see no sense in continuing MC. I have a lot to process and deal with here so I will be doing IC myself." 2) Take back the MBR. You aren't the one leaving, so she should be the one to move out of the MBR. 3) Double-down on DBing. 180s. GAL like a madman, and detach.
Do
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Ready2Change and Steve85. Thank you for being blunt. I do not know for sure that the EA/PA is over for sure. Did it go further than she stated, it could have. Her friend would have to be in on it and I do not think that is the case. It happened out of town while visiting with a girlfriend so she would not have stayed at the hotel with her friend and I do not think she would have done that. She told me she hated him and I do know that they had not communicated for over a month by the time I found out. I checked the phone records. At this point should I care? I really do not as long as it is over.
There are definitely red flags, almost spot on with you Steve85. She has bought a whole new wardrobe because she has lost weight. She looks great. The clothes are more form fitting and include more sexy underwear that she wears only on the weekends when she is gone. She is secretive with her phone and we did decouple our phone lines so I cannot check anymore. She does spend more time in the bathroom and she no longer gets dressed in front of me, has not for a long time. She locks the bathroom door to shower/get changed. I feel like I am in a no win situation right now regarding this. I would like to know there is no EA/PA but pushing and asking her will only push her farther away. One of the reasons she has said she wants to move on is she knows I will not trust her anymore because I was asking so may questions. Anytime in the past when I asked was just reaffirming her thoughts. Pretending like I do not care seems to have helped.
We have not told our family or friends about our semi-separation. I believe that is because she is not fully sure she wants to go through divorce. Our children are young S6, D7 and we know it will affect them. I think she really wants space to know whether she is making the right decision. Getting out of our house where we had many "hard" conversations about the EA seems to help her. Maybe I am naïve.
You both mentioned taking back the bedroom. The reason I have agreed to sleep in the other room is that our kids may have noticed but they do not ask questions. My wife goes to bed earlier than me and is available for our kids when they wake up in the middle of the night. They notice I'm not in bed but that was not unusual in the past because I often play video games late with friends from college. If I boot her out of bed then the kids will know something is wrong for sure. I am not ready to break this to them yet because I do think we still have a chance. Does that change your opinion.
Writing this post made me realize there is still such a long road ahead and we may not be able to shield our children much longer from what is going on.
You both mentioned taking back the bedroom. The reason I have agreed to sleep in the other room is that our kids may have noticed but they do not ask questions. My wife goes to bed earlier than me and is available for our kids when they wake up in the middle of the night. They notice I'm not in bed but that was not unusual in the past because I often play video games late with friends from college. If I boot her out of bed then the kids will know something is wrong for sure. I am not ready to break this to them yet because I do think we still have a chance. Does that change your opinion.
Most WAWs become WAWs because they lose attraction for their Hs. sandi write extensively about how attraction is tied to respect. This is why begging and pleading do not work. Have you ever "respected" a beggar and a pleader? Of course not, and neither does your W.
So the one way you can start to rebuild her attraction is to get her to respect you. Let me ask you, does a man that stays up late playing video games (and yes I am a generation ahead of you so I don't understand that anyway!) and then sleeping in another room command respect? Or would a 180 be in order here? "I agree that we should shield the kids from this. Therefore, I will be taking back the MBR. You are welcome to stay but if you don't want to sleep in bed with me then YOU need to stay up later than the kids and sleep in the other room. I will no longer be staying up late to play video games, but going to bed in the MBR after the kids are bed."
Nice Guy Syndrome is a real thing, IU. Please add No More Mr. Nice Guy to your book list and read it after DR.
In the meantime, take back your respect.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Also I am extremely supportive in not telling friends and family about your sitch. You want to keep the path back to committing to your marriage for your WAW as smooth as possible. If she has to mend fences with friends and family on the way back it may be a bridge too far for her. So keep your sitch private.
Also, since the red flags are there, I would pull the plug on MC and just assume she is involved in an A. Tell her "I feel like we are just going through the motions at this point, so I see no sense in continuing MC. I have a lot to process and deal with here so I will be doing IC myself."
Most WAWs/WWs just agree to MC to say "we tried everything, even MC!" I do caveat this in that if you think it is doing good at all, then consider still going. It doesn't sound like it has in your sitch, so pull the plug. Do IC instead.
TAKE BACK RESPECT.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
