Advice for newcomer pre- bomb drop.

[Bern19]

Ok, so seems like there has been a shift in my WW's mood over the past few days. Last week, she was saying all the right things, like "choosing us", and being willing to answer all my questions, etc. But the last couple days she's been distant, cold, and almost standoffish. I've been working my detachment and GAL, but was looking forward to having her answer some questions I've had about the length and scope of her affair. I've been careful not to put much weight on her words as I know better than to believe her, but it seems clear she's having second thoughts about coming clean.

[neffer]

Stay away from those talks. Stop the pressure. Stick to DB. You control yourself, can´t control W. Detach.

Take your time. Time to read, time to learn, time to rest, time to keep your mind clear. You need to do it.

Time and patience. It´s a marathon. Stay strong man.

[sandi2]

Ok, so seems like there has been a shift in my WW's mood over the past few days. Last week, she was saying all the right things, like "choosing us", and being willing to answer all my questions, etc. But the last couple days she's been distant, cold, and almost standoffish. I've been working my detachment and GAL, but was looking forward to having her answer some questions I've had about the length and scope of her affair. I've been careful not to put much weight on her words as I know better than to believe her, but it seems clear she's having second thoughts about coming clean.

She's had contact with him. Your MR doesn't stand a chance as long as she's working with him. She can't get through the withdrawals, b/c she sees him at work. It doesn't matter what OM's W says about him. Your W's first move in showing that she is serious about saving her M, is to leave that work location. It should not be okay with you that she and OM are working together. Do you understand how this feeds her affair addiction? Even if they aren't engaged in a PA, you can bet the EA is going strong! She has to go through withdrawals, which is impossible when she's seeing him at work.

She would like to act as if her affair was just a mistake, and move forward. It was more than just a mistake. She betrayed you for a long time. This requires healing. I know by the answers she's giving that she is not serious about saving the M, yet. I know by her responses, and how she still wants to focus on your negative issues......she's not serious, yet. I know b/c she is still working with OM. This MR will need serious therapy to guide both of you to a healthy place again. But first, she's got to get serious about saving it, and she's not.

[Bern19]

Sandi, that was the first thing that came to mind. She was all talk about R for 3 or 4 days until she went to work Monday morning. By Monday night, she was cold and distant. Wouldn't even look at me when I got home. Was pretty obvious to me that something had happened. At first I was upset and it probably showed. I had a rough day at work and then came home to that. It passed quickly & it didn't crush me like it would have 2 weeks ago. I just need to keep doing my thing. I know for a fact that she is not ready to be truthful with me, so why bother asking any questions.

I'm going to keep plugging along trying to have a MR, but for the first time, I'm thinking that this will probably end in D as I don't believe she will quit her job. I don't believe I can ever R while they still work together. That our family insurance is through her work was what had me hung up. That will be a major hurdle for our family. She has said that she is worried that if she quits her job and we end up not being able to make it work, she'd be out on the streets with nothing. She's convinced that this modest paying job is going to allow her to live the lifestyle she's been accustomed to. She's just not aware of how much it costs to run a household. We are doing OK, but if you split our income and have to pay for two of everything, life will definitely be different. Her shopping habit will take a huge hit, that's for certain.

I'm going to keep working on detaching. I'm getting better at it, but still have a way to go. Giving up all the spying a couple weeks ago was hard at first, but now I can see how it was keeping me stuck on her. Letting that go was a huge step for me to start the process of letting her go. I think at this point she's hoping that this will all settle down and things can go back to "normal". She doesn't yet realize that isn't an option that will work for me. Next time she initiates a "talk" I plan to let her know about a few of my boundaries and that should clear up any ideas about rug sweeping this mess.

[sandi2]

It passed quickly & it didn't crush me like it would have 2 weeks ago.

Good! Although you may not see much evidence of any progress toward reconciliation......there has been progress made in you.

I know for a fact that she is not ready to be truthful with me, so why bother asking any questions.

I have to agree with you. Why waste your breath, if she's not going to be truthful?

I'm going to keep plugging along trying to have a MR

My question is why would a man keeping plugging along trying to have a MR while his W is trying to have a relationship with another man? I know that you said you didn't think they were in a PA, currently. It doesn't mean she wouldn't like to be in a PA. The fact that she is still working with him, speaks volumes. Don't get me wrong here, b/c I'm not telling you to run out and get a divorce, rather than try to save your MR. I'm trying to see how you look at this picture.

If your WW makes not attempt to find another job, then you may need to consider taking a different approach. Once the WW has been confronted about her affair, there should be a clear understanding that things will not remain the same. In other words, there will either be a full reconciliation or a physical separation/divorce...…..but you aren't going to play house with her while she continues making goo-goo eyes at OM.

Have you given her any stipulations about reconciling? For example, have you told her that you will not reconcile if she continues working with the OM? It's simply unacceptable. Until she stops working with him, you are wasting time and precious energy, cause nothing will work until she ends all type of contact with him. This is when you have to stand very firm on your principles/values. Don't compromise with a cheater. How incredible inconsiderate to her husband, for an unfaithful W to continue working with her lover. Talk about rubbing it in your face!

That our family insurance is through her work was what had me hung up. That will be a major hurdle for our family.

Is there someone in the family that has an ongoing physical health issue? Have you researched other insurance companies? It may come down to choosing between insurance and marriage.

She has said that she is worried that if she quits her job and we end up not being able to make it work, she'd be out on the streets with nothing.

In true WW form, she shows no concern for your feelings, or even the insurance issue. She's only concerned about herself.

She's convinced that this modest paying job is going to allow her to live the lifestyle she's been accustomed to. She's just not aware of how much it costs to run a household. We are doing OK, but if you split our income and have to pay for two of everything, life will definitely be different.

It's all part of her fantasy. WW's are not very realistic.

Next time she initiates a "talk" I plan to let her know about a few of my boundaries and that should clear up any ideas about rug sweeping this mess

Just for the record, you don't have to wait for her to initiate a talk before you set boundaries. In fact, stating your boundary is not an introduction for discussion. She has a choice to honor it or dishonor it. But if she dishonors it, you need to know what action you will then take.

I'll give an example. Let's say you state the following boundary: "I will not stay in a relationship where my wife works with her current or previous affair partner". You aren't telling her what she can or cannot do. She can make her own choice. If she does nothing, and continues working with OM, then you have to back up your word and physically separate (maybe even divorce). Currently, she doesn't believe you have the b@lls to do it, and just plugging along trying to have a relationship with her......isn't likely to change her mind.

What other boundaries are you considering? I am concerned that you really just want to talk about it, and you may even think telling her something is your boundary will settle things. It doesn't. And, boundaries are not confronting the WW. The WW is going to test you to see what you'll do when she doesn't honor your boundary. The stronger the consequences, the more effective the boundary. You don't have to "discuss" the consequences or anything else. Just state the boundary, and know what you are going to do to back it up......b/c she's going to try you. And listen, if you can't back it up, it's better if you never open your mouth. To state a boundary and then do nothing if it's disrespected...….is like serving your b@lls on a silver platter to her. You have to carry through with some type of effective action. By effective......I don't mean you simply ignore her. That's a classic nice guy move, to just ignore the WW.

Come here, first, to discuss your boundaries and how you'll enforce them. We can help you fine tune them. One word of caution while I'm thinking about it...….don't start walking around the house crowing about a bunch of things suddenly becoming your boundaries. I've seen some newbies do it, and it is a dead give away to her that you've been reading some book...….and she'll just roll her eyes and not take it seriously.

My suggestion is that you don't give her a laundry list of boundaries, if you know what I mean. State one boundary. See how you do with that one, and maybe a little later you'll need to state another boundary.

Do you have any questions about boundaries?

[Bern19]

My question is why would a man keeping plugging along trying to have a MR while his W is trying to have a relationship with another man? I know that you said you didn't think they were in a PA, currently. It doesn't mean she wouldn't like to be in a PA. The fact that she is still working with him, speaks volumes. Don't get me wrong here, b/c I'm not telling you to run out and get a divorce, rather than try to save your MR. I'm trying to see how you look at this picture.

I guess like most guys on here it's because I still love my wife. I'm finally starting to wrap my head around the idea that she no longer exists and this new person is not who I fell in love with. To further complicate things, I don't personally believe in divorce. I know it sounds stupid, but I married this woman because I saw the pain that she went through when her parents divorced when she was 15 years old. She swore that she would never put her family through anything like she went through. Yet, here we are... Obviously that's not the only reason I married her, but was something that I considered before I chose to give my heart to her.

Is there someone in the family that has an ongoing physical health issue? Have you researched other insurance companies? It may come down to choosing between insurance and marriage.

Yes, I deal with afib and was diagnosed with heart failure two years ago. I have insurance available to me through my job, but it's nowhere near what we can get through her job. (govt.). That and the pre-existing condition issue have me stuck between a rock and a hard place. That is why I haven't dropped this on her as a boundary as I'm not sure if I'm ready to back it up until I have researched the health insurance things.

What other boundaries are you considering?

Since I can't yet back up the boundary of quitting her job, I'd like to state something about not sharing her with him in any capacity. Not as lovers, friends, buddies or anything. I can't be with her as long as she is having any contact with him. I get that it's hard to enforce when they can see each other every day. I do have one ally at her work that I can count on to hold her accountable, but there are two others there that will go out of their way to protect her and may have even encouraged her affair.

[ovrrnbw]

I've been working my detachment and GAL, but was looking forward to having her answer some questions I've had about the length and scope of her affair.

Why? You already know the answers and you won't like them? What difference does it make? If she tells you its been going on for years and it happened in your bed, your car, and your kids call him daddy are you outta there?

What will "knowing" do for you?

[Bern19]

What will "knowing" do for you?

I'm just one of those guys.... I need to know how long she's been lying. Just need to know so I can try to wrap my head around it all. Not sure if it will affect my desire to R or not, but not knowing isn't working for me.

[ovrrnbw]

I still don't get it. She's been lying longer than she's told you and longer than you know or want to believe. If you want to save the MR, I'd put that on hold for a long time. I think MWD addressed this either in her books or on a podcast she did with Neil Sattin. I'd look for it if I were you.

[Grace21]

Since I can't yet back up the boundary of quitting her job, I'd like to state something about not sharing her with him in any capacity. Not as lovers, friends, buddies or anything. I can't be with her as long as she is having any contact with him. I get that it's hard to enforce when they can see each other every day. I do have one ally at her work that I can count on to hold her accountable, but there are two others there that will go out of their way to protect her and may have even encouraged her affair.

This will never work. Relying on people to spy or tattle on your W is useless. She has to WANT to change her behavior and cut all contact. In real R, that would mean changing jobs.