Physical and emotional injuries are very similar. They hurt, affect your functions, need time to heal and leave scars.
Like many others you come here looking for answers but what you will receive is advice.
You need to find the answers yourself.
That is how you heal, learn and grow.
In answer to your reply:
- Yes I have received them, I can say that I've not read them both, and probably did a poor job at comprehending what I did read. When I started this, I could feel her distancing herself from me, thus the title of my post referencing "pre-bomb drop". In the process of reading the book, I discovered the PA, and shifted gears to affair recovery per advice from the pastor. Enter Dr. Harley's book and MWD's Healing from an affair. Why start on another book if you havent read the first one? Why read a different book to the forum you are in? Different solutions will only confuse you, especially if you are unprepared. Additionally, you will most likely cherry pick and go for the solutions that suit you most.
- This is the mindset I'm striving for.... has been extremely challenging for me so far.. It is important you achieve this. Whatever the cost.
- I'll admit to struggling with this. I guess because she says there has been no contact w/ OM, yet they see each other every day at work. I have been doing much better though. The first two weeks I was a mess and was trying to keep tabs on her. I think the fact that he cut off contact with her makes me think about what would happen if he changed his mind and wanted my WS instead of his BS. I suggest you only investigate to confirm but right now I think it is pretty clear what your situation is. Does it matter if she sees him once a week or seven times a week. You know your marriage is up sh1t creek. What does snooping offer? Will it get her back?
- Obviously I'm no longer initiating, but if she does? Do I decline? That would be a huge 180 for me... She's never been one to initiate often..
Yes, she spent the first couple nights out of the MB, but has been back for about a month now. The fact you are still unsure reflects what I mean. The posts have concluded what women do and how sex is used. They even give you their opinion. You know the answer. What do you think? Apply it. You need to start making decisions. About the MB I mean if you have left it.
- I will focus on reading to comprehend instead of skimming over the material trying to find what I think applies to me. I'm realizing i've missed several nuggets of wisdom in my haste to burn through the material. Should I put away MWD's Healing from Infidelity for now? I'm thinking yes? No harm in finishing it. Suggest you apply techniques after reading all the books. The more information you have the better. What I do not suggest is cross reading with other therapies or techniques.
I only have a couple of things to toss your way. You are reading conflicting messages in your books. IMHO, The Dare book is not what you need to follow at this time. From what I remember about it, the methods seem extremely pursuing...….which is not what the H should do with a WW. Dr. Harley has a lot of good information, however it doesn't always line up with what MWD teaches. I encourage you to finish reading Divorce Remedy (updated version of Divorce Busting). You may need to decide which method is for you, or risk being very confused.
The other thing I want to tell you is that a couple who has been in any type of affair, cannot continue working together. An affair is like a drug addiction, and seeing the affair partner every day will keep your W stuck fantasizing over the OM. In other words, your M is not going to get better until she has absolutely no contact (visual, verbal, written, etc.) with him. If she won't resign from that current work place, I think you need to face the fact that she is still in an affair (emotionally, at least) and you just waiting around on her, hoping her feelings will change, is not getting the right results.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This is so good. Goes along with the not just reading the books but understanding them. So many of the newbies here struggle because the see this as a "follow the directions" exercise. "Here is what happened....tell me what to do."
I'll be honest, I'm so emotionally and mentally drained from this process that it'd be nice to be able to follow directions at times.
This is the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with in my life, by far....
I said the same thing....until we moved into piecing and Ring. THAT is the hardest thing you will ever have to deal with in your life. My point? It is going to get much harder.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
The other thing I want to tell you is that a couple who has been in any type of affair, cannot continue working together.
THIS^^^^^^^^^^
Several of us just covered this in someone else's thread. (I can't remember which, Hero18's I think). Seriously considering making her getting a new job a requirement for Ring.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Ok, so after the discovery of the WW's affair, she said she wasn't sure what she wanted to do going forward. So after a couple of days of pursuit, I pulled back and started working detachment again. In the past month, we've spoken very little about the affair and even less about us. She's admitted the the initial disclosure on D-day wasn't completely truthful and that they had fabricated the timeline. I guess they figure that a 2 week affair is easier to own than a 2 year affair?
I've told her that I need an honest timeline and some details about the affair before I can even begin to consider reconciliation. She has been hesitant to do that, until yesterday. She told me she has made up her mind, and wants to stay and work on our marriage. She then asked me to put together a list of questions that I want answered truthfully and she would commit to doing it.
Any advice on questions I should ask? Do I give her a list and let her answer in writing, or do I make her do it orally, face to face. I guess I feel I have a better chance at getting a more complete answer by letting her write out her answers. However, with very little trust for her still, I wonder if that gives her too much time to "construct" her answers.
I'm trying not to get too hopeful for us until I get a feel for her disclosure and see if there will be any true remorse or if it will just continue to be clinical and emotionless. I know that making forgiveness too easy to attain just sets us up for failure down the road. I am encouraged that she approached me and claims to want to save the marriage, as until now, I haven't had anything hopeful to point to. Still in my mind I know that I need to be skeptical of what she says and does.
Still just keeping an even keel and not letting my emotions run away with me. Although I can see how easy that would be.
Me- 47 Her- 43
S-20 S-18 S-13 S11
Together 23 years Married 21 years
EA confirmed 11/13 EA "ended" 1/14 PA confirmed 10/18 Started MC 11/18
She then asked me to put together a list of questions that I want answered truthfully and she would commit to doing it.
That seems odd. Maybe she wants to answer your questions once, and then put it in the past. But, you may have questions later, that you don't think about right now. She may also want them in writing, so she and OM can make sure their stories match. IDK, just guessing.
Here's the thing Bern. She should answer any question you have at any time. Yes, it's very uncomfortable for her, but you were the one betrayed. On that note, I want to caution you......if you don't want to really know the answer....then don't ask. Some things are hard to erase from the mind. You know yourself and what you can handle better than anyone.
She may not know it, but there needs to be a lot more than her answering some questions. It's about your need to feel secure in a relationship with her. It's about what she's willing to do to go forward in saving this MR. The first thing she needs to do is find another place to work. She cannot continue to work with OM in the same place. She needs to be willing to be transparent about her phone activity. She can't have secret relationships, and secret passwords, and secret texts, etc. You should be able to pick up her phone at any time, without warning or even without her knowledge, and look at her phone activity. Anytime a spouse doesn't want the other one seeing their phone, you can bet something shady somewhere. If she won't share her password, or she changes it, then she's keeping secrets. If she wants to grab her phone, and starts deleting things, then she's not being transparent.
Look, she doesn't get to call the shots about reconciliation, b/c she was the one who betrayed your trust.....not the other way around. Whatever you need in order for you feel secure in the relationship......she should be willing to do it. If she balks, then she's not ready to reconcile. She has betrayed you in the worst possible way. She is wayward and she has some tough work ahead. She may not have the desire or feelings.....but that's okay. All you need is her willingness and cooperation. The feelings will follow later.
She must do whatever is necessary to prevent any contact with OM. No visual, audio, or written contacts should be permissible. Why? B/c affairs are addictive, and even if she thinks she's through with OM, she's going to have the craving to have contact with him. If she has any contact, even sees him at a distance, it can place her back to square one again. It's hard. I've been through it. But she can do it. First, she has to get real about reconciling the MR. She needs to stop acting self righteous and making statements about how she doesn't know if she can trust you again. And YOU need to call her out on that kind of sh't. You didn't lie, cheat, and commit adultery. She did! Don't let her turn the tables, b/c she is trying to keep the spotlight off her own actions.
Don't let her lay out the terms. Don't you dare allow her to put your actions, or neglect, into the same classification with her and treat you as if you are just as guilty. She'll try. I know she'll try it. I've seen so many guys who were too eager, and jumped right in there with the WW to show her how willing he was to be transparent with her. No, that sends the wrong message. She's the one who needs to give an account.....not you. She's like nothing better than to treat you like you can't be trusted. However, you can be trusted, and you've proven it. She's proven she can't be trusted, and if you agree to reconcile, it will be under the condition that she will cooperate with your plan of transparency, to be carried as long as you need it.
I can't warn you enough, if she has half a chance, she'll mess with you and have you thinking you should be willing to do whatever terms she lays out. This isn't her call. It's your call. She can agree or disagree, but if she wants to stay in the MR, you had better set things straight by telling her how what you will expect. If she doesn't like it, she can leave. You don't want to repeat this experience again, so stick to your guns.
She should agree to pro-marriage counseling...….preferably one who specializes in healing after an affair. Just some hole in the wall counselor won't be enough. She may even need IC, but most couples have to get professional guidance to help them through the piecing stage. You don't have to go right away, but she needs to agree to do it in the very near future. (I can't remember if you are still seeing one, or not). Until she gets through the withdrawals of the affair addiction, I don't know that MC is going to do much good. So, first things first.
She shouldn't be taking any trips without you, for a long time. She shouldn't be taking "girls night out" or staying overnight with friends, until you feel completely safe in the MR and can trust her word (after a significant period of transparency). She should not excuse herself from your presence to go into another room for private phone calls. She should not do any computer activity behind closed doors or with secret passwords. She is transparent about all her activity. You have to handle it as if she's an addict, b/c she is.
She will probably accuse you of wanting to control or punish her. It's more WW cr@p. Don't get scared and back down. Transparency is not about control. It is a method of giving an account. I promise you if she is not trying to deceive you......she will be thrilled for you to see what a good girl she's been! If she's not, then she's not genuine about saving the MR. You see, there's a big difference in a WW who simply agrees to stay on in the M...…..and the WW who is willing do whatever is necessary to save the M. I don't think your W is quite there yet, but I hope I'm wrong.
Another important step to make immediately upon the decision to reconcile, is that she sleeps in the same bed as you. Don't start off the R by sleeping in separate rooms/beds. (That's not to say you have to have sex right away, but she needs to understand you won't continue doing without it.) Just don't agree to separate beds.
I may be forgetting something, cause I'm writing this quickly, but I think those are some of the main points in reconciling with a WW. Either or both of you can take a few days to think it over. That would give you extra time to check with the board, if you needed to ask a question.
Both of you will each have plenty of work to do, but it may not look exactly alike.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Each of you have a separate goal to achieve and both are a long way away.
To be quite frank you are not in the "hopeful" league yet to consider that any action she does now is for reconcilliation. My bet is it is for manipulation.
To be sincere and it may sound harsh and be against what others think, I really suggest you not focus on your wife right now (basically shut her out) but on yourself and for 2 reasons.
1) I do not see her ready to do anything with you and is playing you. If you are suckered you will be here in a year or so with even less credibility than before with your wife. You need to make yourself unavailable right now. Empty the hurt and the primary feeling of needing her back at any cost. She also has to feel your loss, your unavailability and show it.
2) Even if she works on the relationship you are still the same flawed person before BD but with the addition of being vulnerable. You need to improve yourself for you not her and if you do things the right way you will notice the changes in many ways, including seeing her differently. Not changing yourself and having her change will mean you will also be here back again in some time.
Even if you get to the stage where you both want to make it work, piecing is just as hard and requires you be on top of your game to make it work and we are talking years of being under scrutiny and under pressure to make it work.
Hi Bern. I’m neffer, I was a ww husband sometime ago. I’m sorry about your sitch. Really hard to read.
You are getting really good advice here man. Can’t be better. Remember some things Sandi, Steve and Maximus said: no working together, that is a no go. I agree with Maximus last post: work on yourself, detach.
Move forward B. Stay strong.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
The work thing is a problem as we get our health insurance through her job. I want her out of there badly, but having a few pre-existing conditions complicates things. We are working on this currently trying to find a solution...
I think she's finally willing and says she wants to cooperate, but I'm just gun-shy about jumping right into reconciliation until I get a full disclosure of the affair. Not that I plan on changing my mind about staying, but really want to know how deep this all went. Until I get my head around that, I don't even want to start discussing transparency and boundaries.
She has been going to IC and we went to our first joint session last weekend. The therapist seems very nice and is openly pro-marriage. After our first joint session, it seems she is still in withdrawal, but it is obvious that she is starting to come out of the fog as she's realizing how much this secret life caused her to neglect our family. Again, signs of progress but not enough for me to pronounce it time to proceed to working on the MR. It took years for us to get to this place, taking our time seems
She still wants to point to my neglect as a cause of her decision to cheat, she also knows that I'll admit to being emotionally absent and sometimes a jerk, which gave her a reason to ask me to sit down and talk, or go to counseling, or even for her to initiate a separation, if I wouldn't change. What it didn't do is give her an excuse to betray our MR and commit adultery. She knows she has to own that, and I'm hopeful that sitting down with me and answering my questions will shine some light on a few of the areas she's been avoiding talking about.
We are sleeping in the same bed. We haven't yet had actual intercouse though. I'm just not ready for that as of yet. Not that I'm not attracted to her, I'm just not there yet.
I am still working on myself, spending very little down time with her alone. Trying to pull more of my own weight around the house with the chores and the kids, but still taking time out for myself. Really enjoying going to the gym. Even went out with some old college buddies this past weekend.
The hardest part of all this is I still love my wife and I'd like to believe that this was all just a mistake and move forward to get fixing this. But I also know that is exactly how we got here. Had I found this place 5 years ago I might not be in this place. I know that it's going to get worse before it gets better. However, for the first time in a month, I'm starting to see that things are going to be OK, no matter what happens with my marriage.
Me- 47 Her- 43
S-20 S-18 S-13 S11
Together 23 years Married 21 years
EA confirmed 11/13 EA "ended" 1/14 PA confirmed 10/18 Started MC 11/18
Don’t agree with being put at the same level with W. She decided to cheat, she has to own that. Don’t validate lies or disrespect. Long affairs tend to go on with more discretion. Be aware of that. Demand total transparency. Working together is a no go. Believe me, I was in that position sometime ago...
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
