Thanks Steve, your encouragement has been much appreciated.
Over the last 3 weeks, there's been more of the same behavior between myself and W. We went out to lunch on our own this week and both really enjoyed each others company. She's been touching my arm almost every-time she talks to me, calling me pet names and still bringing up all of us moving to a bigger house and showing me houses she's found.
I've just had the week off work to coincide with the kids school holidays and done plenty of GAL activities with them leaving W to work. I read a comment by AS regarding gifts given to the LBS and valuing time with my kids and making memories has certainly been one of mine. Still working on keeping my 180's going regarding alcohol and anger and sticking to the 37 rules.
Now I'm back in the MBR we have been going to bed early together and watching tv, she has been very slowly moving closer to me, culminating in her initiating sex the other night.
This has happened exactly 300 days since BD but still with no R talk. I'm sure her EA is over and it seems that she has stopped all disrespectful and rebellious behavior. I know she still has a lot of internal work to do regarding her resentment towards me but this is definitely going in the right direction.
I'm concentrating on not changing and starting to pursue as a result of this. I feel that thanks to my DB'ing I have finally managed to create a space where she feels safe enough with me to let some of the ice around her heart melt a bit and start to let go of some of her resentment.
LBH 47 WW 47, M 15 T 18 D 11 S 14 BD, I moved out (duped) Jan 18 3 yr EA with ex-H discovered: Feb 18 I moved back in: Aug 18 (against her wishes) ...No R No M/C, continued limbo, dropping the rope!
I am looking for some advice. My WW seems to have finally come to her senses, her words, actions and attitude are all consistently showing respect and plans for our future together.
She is pressuring me to agree to start the process of moving to a bigger house together. The problem I have is we haven't spoke about anything that has happened this year. I haven't initiated any R talk as I have been following the 37 rules, she hasn't as I think she is scared, mainly of me bringing up her EA again.
It seems like she would be quite happy to forget everything and pick up where we left off pre BD. Thanks to this board I now know this would be a mistake and leave it open for the same thing to happen again. My plan is to say something along the lines of:
Before agreeing to start the house buying process I would need to know you are 100% committed to making our marriage work and will do whatever is necessary for that to happen including MC.
Then leave the difficult discussions for MC where I would tactfully tackle the issue of her EA and her underlying resentment that caused it.
I am really scared of saying the wrong thing and backsliding from my hard earned progress, thanks to my D'bing she's really relaxed around me ATM and I'd hate to undo that and watch the walls go up again.
Any advice would be really welcome.
LBH 47 WW 47, M 15 T 18 D 11 S 14 BD, I moved out (duped) Jan 18 3 yr EA with ex-H discovered: Feb 18 I moved back in: Aug 18 (against her wishes) ...No R No M/C, continued limbo, dropping the rope!
She is pressuring me to agree to start the process of moving to a bigger house together.
Allow me to be blunt. No, no, no NO NO NOOOOO OH HELL NO. I would wait at least a year before thinking about that. She has a LOT of work to do before then. You too. IC, MC, communications workshops. Discussions of what happened, and how to prevent it from happening again.
Quick story- my brother's W kept pressuring him to get a bigger house. He didn't want it, she did. He didn't think they could afford it. She was an accountant and kept telling him to trust her. So they bought it. A few months later she BD'd him, said she had been in an A and thought that a bigger house would "change her mind" but it didn't work after all. Your W could very well be thinking something similar, that a big new house will change her mind. But it won't.
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Before agreeing to start the house buying process I would need to know you are 100% committed to making our marriage work and will do whatever is necessary for that to happen including MC.
I wouldn't agree to it at all. Just flat out tell her that she has destroyed your trust and it's going to take a long time for her to get it back again, and until that time there will be no large purchases.
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I am really scared of saying the wrong thing and backsliding from my hard earned progress, thanks to my D'bing she's really relaxed around me ATM and I'd hate to undo that and watch the walls go up again.
Don't be afraid to stand firm and stick to your principals. If that makes her walls go up then what does that say about her? What does it say about her motivations for getting back together?
go back and read my threads. I am not discounting ANYTHING AS said. Nothing. However, every sitch is different. I was in a similar situation.
One of the other anti-divorce experts I read said that sometimes the problems in the MR will go away when you clean up your side of the house. That yes, we can trigger the waywardness in our spouse.
Here was my timeline:
2014 My W and I started to look for a new house. We couldn't agree on any houses for 3 years. 2017 June My W gives up the house hunting since we couldn't agree on a house. 2017 Sept My W finds an online singing app and starts down the path to waywardness. 2017 Dec 23 I initiate BD when I find messages between her and a guy on the singing app. 2017 Dec-2018 Feb we are in the thick of our sitch. 2018 Feb mid month she has her last rebellion against the MR. 2018 March we start Ring and piecing in earnets. 2018 April She resumes her house hunting.
Note, that my bad husband behavior really got worse beginning in 2012, and continued through BD.
When I posted in April that we were considering buying a couple of the houses she had found, I got a lot of "WHAT THE BLANK ARE YOU THINKING?" responses.
I honestly think that the stopping of the house-hunting was the start of her waywardness. By time she found the singing app she was looking for something, anything to latch onto. My 180s after BD start to have an effect, she started to back off her BD pronouncements. But that is a difficult thing for WWs, and they don't do it overnight.
AS the other anti-D expert said, sometimes when you just focus on fixing things, the problems go away. Yes we got into MC, and did a lot of work over weeks and months, but a lot of her waywardness just dissipated as she turned back to the MR. In fact, she even said things like that. "As things improve the thoughts of leaving aren't as exciting, and the thoughts of staying aren't as negative."
When she got back into fulltime house-hunting to me that was a sign that the waywardness was gone. And as you said, she just kind of went back to things that she was into pre-waywardness. Her commitment to church returned. Her commitment to coparenting our daughter returned. Her talking about the futrue, together, as a family, returned.
lusa, AS might be 100% right. I don't know your sitch. My sitch was such that I knew, financially, I could handle the new house without any problems, even if we split up. Yes, my Plan B was that I agreed to a house that I could afford even with a D. So make sure to be smart, and protect yourself. But listen to your gut. You know your sitch better than we do!
Make sure you are IC to make sure your 180s are permanent. Make sure you are in MC and that she is willing to fully do the work the MC assigns. Make sure you do not bite off more in a new house that you couldn't chew if she were to go wayward again and bolt.
Brace for the "ARE YOU CRAZY?!?" responses. It worked in my sitch. I am typing this response in our new, beautiful home as we speak. It can work, but make sure you will be okay first and foremost.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thank you so much guys for the wise advice. I have just ruminated on your replies, nothing has changed in my sitch, I'm starting to realise that buying a house, whether we get to MC or not and many other issues that fly round my head on a daily basis aren't really that important, compared with the state of her heart.
This recent reply from Blu to someone else really fits my sitch and is exactly what i needed to hear. This has kept my feet on the ground and made the realise the grim reality of my sitch, when it's all so tempting to pretend we are piecing. We are nowhere near, I need to keep it real, not forget what's happened and not slide back into a pretend sham MR. The time will certainly come when she asks what she needs to do, I'll tell her and then it will be her choice, she'll either do hard work or she won't. Thanks to this board, I now know I will be OK eventually either way. Thanks Blu x
Originally Posted by BluWave
I firmly believe that in order to have a genuine M, both people must be willing to look at themselves, be willing to change, and have remorse for the pain they have caused. I see this from you, but she seems far from even admitting to what she has done. She has given you no reason to trust her. So while you might be able to do some patchwork here and there and get her into counseling, she does not yet have an open heart. SHE IS STILL WAYWARD! Sure you have made your mistakes, we all have. That does not entitle her to have an affair. And she hasn't even admitted to it? We all teach people how to treat us. How do you want to be treated by your W? I ask you again, how do you think you deserve to be treated?
Some posters here think they can come here, follow the rules, and somehow win their S back. Their only focus is that if their M is restored, they will somehow have a better life. That is not how life works! Life is what WE make of it. They also are so internally wounded they refuse to see their reality. Truth is, you cannot force someone to love you or respect you. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE! Don't you guys want to be in a M where you are loved and respected? Isn't that what M is about? Having someone physically there is not a real partnership...... Down the road, if and only if, she shows you a woman that is remorseful and committed to you, then you can consider if you want her back.
Blu
LBH 47 WW 47, M 15 T 18 D 11 S 14 BD, I moved out (duped) Jan 18 3 yr EA with ex-H discovered: Feb 18 I moved back in: Aug 18 (against her wishes) ...No R No M/C, continued limbo, dropping the rope!
Blu nailed it. And I am struggling with exactly what she is talking about. Ring and piecing is hard and difficult. Much harder and difficult than divorcing and moving on. I don't think many LBSs get that. They think "I will make these changes, DB her back, and everything will be unicorns and rainbows." So not true.
If your goal is to keep your spouse, then you run the risk of reliving the unhappiness YOU as the LBS experienced prior to BD. Sometimes your spouse is giving you a "get out of jail free" card with their waywardness and infidelity, especially for those of us that are religious and believe the D is only allowed in cases of adultery.
Too be honest, I'd rather live the rest of my life alone than go back to my MR 1.0 circa 2014-2017.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Blu nailed it. And I am struggling with exactly what she is talking about. Ring and piecing is hard and difficult. Much harder and difficult than divorcing and moving on. I don't think many LBSs get that. They think "I will make these changes, DB her back, and everything will be unicorns and rainbows." So not true.
If your goal is to keep your spouse, then you run the risk of reliving the unhappiness YOU as the LBS experienced prior to BD. Sometimes your spouse is giving you a "get out of jail free" card with their waywardness and infidelity, especially for those of us that are religious and believe the D is only allowed in cases of adultery.
As an LBS that's been my thought for a long time now, trying to piece back the destruction W has brought...seems like it would be total H and if lucky, the "R glue" would hold forever. Not that I want D, but moving on for sure seems like the most healthy thing I can do.
Though I’m not (yet) to S / D, I have found myself looking ahead to whatever (and whoever) comes next. My orientation is shifting, whether it is to Current Wife 2.0, or looking forward to another woman in time.
I don’t want S / D (who does?), and while I know it’s not totally up to me, I think about how others refer to my sitch as ‘having been fired as being H,’ and I think to myself ‘why would I want to come back to this?’ Especially with how she is being mentally and emotionally.
Nothing much has changed in my sitch - I've been consistent with my changes and we've been spending lots of enjoyable time together. Then yesterday i snooped and now I'm tail-spinning into oblivion.
No wonder my WW doesn't want to talk or consider R, preferring to just rug-sweep and pretend. It is because she is still deeply in love with OM, and unfortunately as this is her ex H, with shared history I don't think she's ever going to get over it.
She writes notes before talking to him, I've seen a few before and posted them here. Unfortunately I snooped yesterday and found another note, they are always around cutting off contact, and this is in response to cutting off contact.
This one said.
"What would you do? I can only assume if I saw you again I'd feel the same. On that last day I definitely did. Bye babe, love you.
That deep connection went 2 ways. It was so powerful I couldn't cope with it, so I stopped it. I have always regretted it. I failed and have regretted it ever since.
I will be back in 10 years when **illegible** will be less"
So she loves him, is trying to cut off contact but has promised she'll be back with him in 10 years - which is when our youngest will have left home.
I have been back at home as a family, with her pretending everything is ok, listening to her talking about our future and getting on well for six months now. I've been biding my time waiting for her to commit to R and then M/C. After reading this I feel so completely hopeless now. There's no way I will be able to stay with her now counting down the time to BD2. I need to let her go and move on more than ever - this hurts really bad.
She's noticed I'm upset (not good), I've already let slip that I read something I shouldn't have (not good), now I'm dreading going home, I think I'm going to have to tell her what I've read. Acting as-if with a PMA is going to be really hard when I'm dying inside, but I'm going to try for the kids. I'm really close to filing myself now, I've endured 13 months of pain and the worst of it has just come flooding back.
I just don't know what to do.[i][/i]
Last edited by lusa; 01/28/1904:03 PM.
LBH 47 WW 47, M 15 T 18 D 11 S 14 BD, I moved out (duped) Jan 18 3 yr EA with ex-H discovered: Feb 18 I moved back in: Aug 18 (against her wishes) ...No R No M/C, continued limbo, dropping the rope!
