If physical intimacy is initiated by WW what is your position on engaging at that point?
That's a giant "it depends". If you're DB'ing super well, not pursuing, don't appear needy, then you can engage from the perspective of "sure, I'll do this for you, but I can take it or leave it"
If you're otherwise acting like a starving dog and engaging in physical intimacy is the equivalent of her throwing you some table scraps, then I would say abstinence is in your best long term interest.
If she's doing it because she's bored, guilty, temporarily randy, etc. but not really "into you", then its going to scratch a temporary itch for her, but put YOUR head in a tailspin, so its not worth it. It will leave you confused and wanting more, and for her it will be quickly forgotten, and that's not what you want.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Accuray...this brings me back to the question I have been having for quite a while now. If physical intimacy is initiated by WW what is your position on engaging at that point?
I will let Accuray answer for himself, but in general we typically say it is okay to engage in AS LONG AS you can do it without any expectations or significance attached.
IE- never, LOL! No that is the proper answer but it is pretty much impossible for an LBS to have sex with their WAS without the expectation that it means recon is eminent, or at least on the way. I've seen it happen many, many times. "We had sex, we're piecing!" Followed by "Why is she suddenly so cold and distant?" Yeah.
If you're short on time please skip to *** paragraph. I read a book called codependant no more which was really good for me. I know I have these tendancies to fix and improve and Im still attached - her emotions affect me. Im also running on almost no sleep and have low energy with travel over night last night, then picked up D4 from school, coached 6-830, went to grocery store and now here I am...
I got back from Hawaii this morning, 10 hour flight from 8pm-6am. Amazing trip with an incredible group of guys and teammates. Inspirational, we won the tournament at two age groups and our business backer donated 10k per win to charities. I was named MVP of the tournament at 33+ division. A girls lacrosse player I met at the bar for halloween costume party with all lacrosse teams recently had her company bought out. I had some pretty open conversation with her and by the end she was inviting me to join her in south africa next month or to come to la and visit her... I do have some thoughts that this stuff with W is holding me back quite a bit... friends tell me I have to end it because they love me. All in all, quite an ego boost, also quite expensive... but now back to reality. Part of me wants to just embrace everything else and switch schedule to 1 week on 1 week off, get a babysitter, move on, live my best life. Or do I wait for W to heal and work on herself as she gets voluntary support (steve). Again with support if we divorce this money will be considered alimony and child support and is documented as such on each check. According to attorney I would be looking at about 18 months of alimony, Im 4 months in.
W has had a very hard time with D4 by herself for 5 days. She cant wait to be alone, she is introverted and her alone time like recharges her.. Ive read about it, and it does seem to be the case. But she really seems to be unraveling. She is telling me how anxious she is. Anxious about our MC appointment 11/1 because she wont have time for herself. She talks about making a phone call to schedule an appointment with an educator she needs to meet with like it is an old day event. No way she wants to do trick or treat tomorrow night. These are memories with our kid, it just doesn't make sense to me. She loves D4 so much. I think her mental health is still very much all over the place. Maybe she needs the alone time to work on herself, that makes sense at least... I spend way too much mental energy on this and have to stop. I do love her and want her to be healthy so we have a chance to see if we can be together. So I guess I should be patient with her? Im just going to pull back and be attractive, amoafwl. Literally everyone else sees me that way but its like this codependant, NGS thing with W... maybe it would be again if another partner but I dont think so Im very different with new women.
After being gone I have work to catch up on. W seems mad that she cant make plans tomorrow because I have to do lease signings and rental move ins tomorrow. Tenant has to drop her mom at the hospital 45 min away and then is calling me to do the move in as soon as she's free. And I have to work over the weekend. In my eyes I am supporting our whole family and this work is what pays the bills. Am I wrong here? I think she seems really entitled. Also if I had a 9-5 she would have D4 way more and have less alone time or we would pay for daycare.
I do understand her wanting some time to herself, being a parent with no partner is tough and after 2-3 days my stress levels go up as well. That being said, my logical mind can not help but think... this is why families should do everything they can to stay together. W has said she loves me all the other good sht... but she just wants to be alone all the time. It still seems selfish to me... but Im the one who just got back to Hawaii. I am going to have D4 as much as I can besides work and W knows that. At this point I may even bring D4 with me to do the rental move in.
Sigh... need to sleep but
***I really am looking for some input on what to say at MC. These are some notes I put in my phone during travel - Only see / talk to W if she wants to. When she has positive energy like our recent date it goes so well. We both like and even love each other, you said of course you wanted more after the date. Being open honest and just herself around me seems like it takes a lot of effort. Thats the girl I love and Im just trying to understand.,.. what can I do?
(Probably have to say something like above and just stop there) I am too analytical and think too much. Hopefully putting thoughts down here will help. Vets if you think there is anything else I should discuss in MC please let me know.
- Respect and non negotiables / boundaries. You have bumble and tinder on your phone. A month ago you sent a pic of yourself in underwear to another guy and me. Slept with me the day after hooking up with another man on a date. Told OM2 all about our recent sex. All these things are past tense, but only a few weeks.
- You told me respect is so important to you. I think its important to anyone who loves them self. Respect and trust are earned. All those things are disrespectful to me and just happened so its a bit hard to process the radical change to now were friends and barely talking. After sleeping together and talking about everything. I understand that is whats healthy but I think we need to communicate more consistently whether its phone calls or in person.
- A month ago we were exchanging sexy pics, having open fun conversation, sleeping together and both liked it.... then pulled away. Now in counseling and barely talking.... are we moving backwards?
- When I see you and its obvious you dont want to be around each other that energy and negativity bothers me.
- Recently saw a video by Jay Shetty about relationships and what people really want is your energy and time. Not money or sexy vacations etc but intimacy and quality time. I agree.
- Ive been there when you need someone. I will always be there to support my partner because thats what it means to be a husband. You told me that was the most alpha thing you ever heard. Im a leader I want to lead our family to a better place... I dont know how or how long I can stay in the space we're in now. This is not a marriage or relationship.
- To me things kind of seem done, you dont want to talk or spend time, therapist said date 1x per week you said 1x every 2 weeks. Constantly pulling away... W, you can go. I dont want to be with you unless you want to be with me. I need you to work towards consistency... that is not needy thats a man who cares about you wanting to keep his mind right.
- I am not going to put my life on hold I want to live life with my daughter and ideally you too. I want to travel more and have experiences, build memories. Dont you want to do things? Lets get a hotel or go somewhere and do something as a family or just the two of us every month or two... consistently have something to look forward to.
- I need things to change and to treat each other better, if were dating and trying to figure things out... were still married weve been separated for a year and a half. Respect yourself, love yourself as much as I love you and I think things could work. I want to talk to someone Im dating, be able to call them and just have a conversation. I want to date someone who wants to talk or touch each other... if not then why are we dating?
- I told you a few weeks ago I want more kids with you if you want them. I cant be with someone who doesnt know if they want to be with me. Youve said some of the nicest things about me in the past month but actions speak and what I usually see is cold, disinterest, anxiety, walls up, no emotion and just being shut down.
- When we date you're like oh here I am this is me, and Im like man I still love her but its so few and far between. That is the girl I married, and youve been happy with me when youre in a good place. What can we do to make things better?
Last edited by Did; 10/31/1803:36 AM.
H: 33 W:32 M: 5 T: 8 D: 4 BD: 6/2017 MO: 6/2017 House sold: 6/28/18 W wants to build friendship / relationship- 9/18 Paying $ support since 7/18. Physical Reconnect- 10/18 W Starts- IC / MC - 10/18
Too long of an essay for you guys or Maybe I’m a lost cause
H: 33 W:32 M: 5 T: 8 D: 4 BD: 6/2017 MO: 6/2017 House sold: 6/28/18 W wants to build friendship / relationship- 9/18 Paying $ support since 7/18. Physical Reconnect- 10/18 W Starts- IC / MC - 10/18
I wouldn't say *any* of that in MC. If W has bumble and tinder on her phone, then she is not "fully in". If she's not "fully in", then you should not be sharing any of your intimate thoughts, feelings or doubts with her. It will make you feel better during the session to get these things off your chest, but it will diminish your standing in the relationship.
Honestly, you're not really in a relationship right now, but you're acting like you still are, and she's acting like she's not really. If you don't have the same goal, then there's no way that you're going to get to the same place.
Don't put yourself one down.
Going through that laundry list is going to be a huge mistake. You're making demands and talking about what you need from her at a time that she has no incentive or motivation to give you anything. When you do that, you're not keeping the road home paved smooth, you're making it look like she's going to have to wade through all your angst in order to get back to any kind of starting line, and why would she want to do that?
If you want to set boundaries, then set them.
You don't need MC to validate your boundaries, and you don't need to convince W that you're boundaries are valid, or explain the reasons for them, you just make them.
You'd be 100% better off with a "tough love" boundaries approach followed by going dark than sharing any of your private thoughts, feelings, doubts and complaints in front of her during MC -- it will be a HUGE mistake.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Thanks guys. Way too long. But there is this constant running commentary in my head. Loving her but wondering if we’re even right for each other. After seeing everything that’s out there do I want to be stuck in this little bubble with someone who can’t be consistent and doesn’t know if they want to be with me. She is interested when I don’t talk to her or give her attention is that what I want in my relationship? I don’t know.
H: 33 W:32 M: 5 T: 8 D: 4 BD: 6/2017 MO: 6/2017 House sold: 6/28/18 W wants to build friendship / relationship- 9/18 Paying $ support since 7/18. Physical Reconnect- 10/18 W Starts- IC / MC - 10/18
Loving her but wondering if we’re even right for each other. After seeing everything that’s out there do I want to be stuck in this little bubble with someone who can’t be consistent and doesn’t know if they want to be with me. She is interested when I don’t talk to her or give her attention is that what I want in my relationship? I don’t know.
I haven't been looking what's out there yet, but wondering the exact same thing! Why, after so much deception and turmoil do I want this person? Because it's comfortable? I guess I see what COULD be IF we BOTH make changes. We at least LIKE each other and have a good friendship, have same financial sense, shared kids, etc. I believe it could be great if all the s*** is worked out. *Sigh*
Did, first that is typical you. All over the place to the point of almost being incoherent. I'm also with ACC. Don't say any of that. Mainly because your shouldn't be going into MC with an agenda. Let the MC guide you. Likely you won't her enough time to saw all that and then discuss it. Nothing wrong with having an idea of things you'd like to say but it seems as if you're planning on going in and airing your recent grievances.
One thing I would say is that you aren't interested in further MC sessions if a) she's not all in on the marriage or b) still seeing other guys. MC is a waste of time otherwise. And she will likely use it to say you tried.
Did, you need to be in IC, not MC. And working through your NGS and codependence. And figuring out what you want. Dating other women, meeting other women, considering traveling to other women.... And then going to MC doesn't make sense.
Anyway those are my thoughts. Good luck tomorrow.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
