Sounds like she realizes at the last minute that you aren't waiting around for her and she ropes you back in so to speak. She certainly gives me the impression, from your posting, that she doesn't want you to stray too far from being there for her. . I don't think you want to be her Plan B. Besides, you do not need to tell her if you have a date or not for the stag and doe. I would have let her ponder that question for a bit.
Just my two cents.
How was she supposed to have gotten the impression that he wasn't waiting around for her? I don't see anything in his communication with her that suggests that he is moving on. He said he was available to see her for the next 7 days and confirmed he wasn't bringing a date to the stag and doe.
She's a highly religious, married woman going through a messy divorce who has a busy life and doesn't live particularly close. I get the impression she likes him, but isn't in a place to have anything more than a casual friendship right now.
I just don't see her plotting to keep Andrew as Plan B, based on what he's shared here.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
My response to Andrew's latest posting was based on what had transpired regarding the Stag and Doe and CL's response of being "busy" once again. As I stated, it was just my two cents.
I have followed Andrew on his journey and his "budding" relationship w/CL over the past few months and at the beginning of the friendship/relationship, CL was in pursuit mode just a bit. She was interested in Andrew and even came to his home and made comments about his home. Once he began to show an interest in her, they texted back and forth, and yes he showed quite a bit of interest/concern in her and her situation and offered her support in the days ahead on her divorce and how things were progressing for her, she began to cool down a bit. Andrew would text her often and the response time from CL began to take longer and she wasn't quite as chatty as she had been early on. The texts began to show up as "I'm busy or I have been busy". I may be wrong, but I can't remember if CL has initiated on her own recently in reaching out to Andrew or if Andrew has been the only one reaching out to her.
CL's circumstances have changed since she is in the process of a divorce. Her lawyer may have advised her that it is best to not be involved w/someone else while the divorce proceedings are in process, it could be her religion (but I doubt that since she was showing a lot of interest in Andrew just a few months ago), she may have come to realize how much time a divorce takes to prepare for, her children may need her more now than ever or she didn't realize how interested Andrew would become and isn't ready for a new relationship at the present time. Whatever, the reason, she's cooled down and uses "I'm busy" quite often.
When Andrew stated he was going to the Stag and Doe, she was interested in knowing whether he was taking someone or not. When he responded, she accepted his response. But, later, she expressed an interest in going to the party after saying that she was busy. CL may have realized, after much thought, that Andrew may eventually get discouraged and begin looking else where for a new relationship. After all, Andrew is a divorced man who is available, nice looking, has a home and a good job w/a kind heart and shows much compassion who could meet someone who will show interest in him and then his focus would then be on the new person and CL may think that she would lose his support and interest. Therefore, after some thought, that may well have been why she stated she was interested in the dance.
Some people tend to get discouraged after a few attempts of asking about meeting up or text messaging and the other person is silent for a period of time or responds "I'm busy" frequently. When people frequently get such messages, they tend to step back and wait for that person to contact them and eventually they may move on because the "I'm busy" message can be interpreted in several ways.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I couldn't help coming and updating. I just saw on the Facebook that CL has marked that she is going to the dance. Good thing I've got an extra ticket Which she may or may not know.
I do clearly keep in mind a comment a while ago from DnJ about how tough it is to balance a divorce, kids and a potential new relationship. Going to do my best to be careful here. It's good I think that I had a gap between the original infatuation and now to get at least a smidgin of perspective to navigate this. A bit concerning as well that she's self-inviting. But that's something we can talk about before the dance. I'm ok with it if she is. It does mean that it makes it more that we're "dating" than having just dated. There's a distinction to me. There are also some of the red flags that you job and a few others warned me about after that first night.
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One other thing to report. I had a brief and as usual disturbing encounter of the ex-wife kind last night. I'd just gotten home and was exiting the garage when she pulls up on the street in front of the drive, slows down and then speeds off. Being as S24 was in the kitchen window at the time and gone when I got in the house from getting the mail from across the street I presume they went out together and they had to meet at some undisclosed location. It's both annoying but also helpful that she is still very determined to avoid me.
In some ways it would be better if she acted more "adult" but then again if she'd acted like an adult we wouldn't be in the situation we are. There are some things that we could co-parent on like me transporting Christmas gifts for both sets when I go visit D26 next month (hopefully) and her taking a more active role in helping S24 get his license.
S24 got home after a few hours, went to his room, then back outside briefly. Perhaps handing over some of his mother's stuff I'd given him to return. I'm slightly curious about that.
I was disturbed again this morning when I left my bedroom and could almost immediately smell my ex's "scent". At this time of year she historically slathers on Vicks Vaporub. Very sexy I know - but hey - you learn to live with and not mind such things. Was she actually wandering around the house last night? Or was it S24 using extra muscle rub which is also menthol based? No way to tell.
I did drive by her apartment this morning which is sort of on my route to this office and she's still parked there so my theory that she's moved is wrong yet again.
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Had a nice lunch with some good friends here which included 2 of the women who I have been sweet on - but kept a professional distance from. Dramatically different people and it was interesting seeing them side by side at how different they are. Completely different interests and conversation. Not to mention that one is tall, slender and white and the other isn't.
This is my last day working out of this office. I'll miss the people here but as I'm supporting the business during the transition to the new corporation we'll still be interacting for at least the next 6 to 8 months.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
My day to sleep in and I am up finishing the left laundry from due to my septic system problem. Ha ha. I was going to try to go back to bed, but I can tell my mind is now awake as I am up at 5:30 on weekdays. I’ll probably fall asleep during the ride (D16 driving practice) to and/or from the city for her music lesson.
I have also followed you and this time with CL, hey you’re one of my favourite people here. job’s view mirrors my own. CL is in a tough spot right now, and will have trouble placing you in the top of her priorities (for now).
But, let’s talk about what is current, and happening.
A date, a then a dance, good for you.
I am glad you have what you feel is a better perspective - it is probably more than just a smidgin.
Her abrupt 180, aren’t all 180’s abrupt to those of us on the receiving end. It may not be as last minute as it appears, although I do tend to think that. Point is it is just that at single point in this R with her. Keep your perspective on this, one time is not a deal breaker, however stack a bunch of them up, well then Andrew has some figuring to do.
As I said, CL is still in a difficult situation, and that is ok. Enjoy your time with her, enjoy the evening, forget about all this for a while and just have a good time.
Enjoy the journey, it is usually more important than the destination anyhow.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Enjoy the journey, it is usually more important than the destination anyhow.
Very true words my friend.
Well - people are probably expecting a "date report" so here goes.
We met at a restaurant called "Moxies" - a chain up here. Not one I'm real fond of as it's overpriced and usually staffed by very young women in tight black dresses who are "very" happy to see you. Always reminded me of a higher end Hooters. It is what she suggested though and the impression I've gotten thus far is that she does enjoy the finer things in life.
As an amusing to me side-note, at one point this girl came in and sat at the bar a few stools down. She seemed to be fabricated out of plastic. Extra long pointy nails, fake looking hair, revealed midriff that was probably the size of my leg. She sat there for a while stirring a complicated looking drink and at one point (was paying attention to the beautiful woman I was with) vanished leaving more than half her drink behind. Working girl perhaps?
I was actually a few minutes earlier than CL and got us into the queue for a table. She arrived looking fabulous but dressed casual hugged me and we sat up at the bar to visit bypassing the table queue.
She told me that she had nearly canceled a few times because she had another of her continuous stream of bad days. I think by the end though that she was glad she came.
We sat there for a bit over 2 hours with mostly her talking - which I'm fine with. The times I said things she did listen and not just brush me off to talk about her issues. The first and probably largest part of the visit was her catching me up on the events and non-events of her life. The kids are really struggling and her S13 is acting out a "lot". Her STBX is following the usual script we see here over and over of being entitled, uncooperative and doing nothing to move the separation negotiations forward. I wasn't keen on just hearing bad things but felt that she probably needed to get them out.
We finally shifted the conversation over to other topics and she talked about her family, church, some of her future plans, my adventures in housekeeping etc.
One thing that is bothering her and surprising her is that for the first time in her adult life, money is tight and I think she's struggling with how to deal with that.
I was unsurprised when at one point in time I used the word "date" and it seemed to startle her. I suspect that up until now she's not thought of seeing me as "dating". She did mention later in the evening that she refers to me to people as her "sort-of Uncle". Also, when I mentioned that I prefer a neighbourhood pub sort of place to the one we were at she first said that there weren't many and when I named one of my favourites she commented that she didn't like the idea of going to that one because she would know too many people there. So - I'm not very official it would seem.
She did ask why I was reluctant to take her to the stag and doe and I told her honestly that I didn't want to presume and that if we were there together that we would be identified as a couple and I wasn't sure if she was ready for that. Not sure if that answer confused her or not. We did end up going though. She seemed concerned about the price of a ticket but laughed when I told her that I had a ticket for her that I had bought a long time ago in the hope that I would have found someone to date by then.
We took separate cars to the event and walked in together. Jaws dropped. 95% of the people there were a fraction of my age and I had no clue who they were. My actual niece (CL is a pseudo niece) ran over, gave me a giant hug and ensured that the tickets and such were all sorted out. I introduced CL as "this is my friend (insert name here)", went around the room to say hi to my nephew and his bride to be and then sat at the "old folks" table with my sister, her ex-husband and her current partner where similar introductions and jaw dropping was done. Unsurprisingly my sister took a picture of us together but surprisingly this morning checking social media, those weren't included in her photo dump. Did perhaps CL ask that they not get posted? I don't know but she seemed comfortable when they were being taken. We stayed for about an hour, overlapped with my youngest brother and his wife who was thrilled to see CL there and headed separately home. The good-bye hug had the kiss move another couple of inches closer towards target. If there is another, it might actually land
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A couple of things to note. I'm generally "really" bad at reading expression and such but again this time I noticed a "flicker" from CL on certain things. As if everything was following a plan she has. One was when she was saying that she just wanted to run away and I suggested that she could hide out in my spare room. Another was before she left she asked me to message her when I got safely home and the flicker happened when I dutifully said "yes dear".
I do think she has a plan and I do think that I'm in it.
I did have a very nice time and I think she did too, but I think that my own plan is to follow my original inclination to step back some more and not chase after her. If she wants to spend time with me, that's good. If someone else crosses my path, I've made no promises but for now, I'm not going out hunting for someone. It might be a bit crude, but if she wants to seal my path to her's it has to be done via SWALK - "Sealed With A Loving Kiss" - and she's not there yet.
In some ways I feel like an odd sort of OM and perhaps I am. Neither fish nor fowl. While I'm not the cause of the end of her marriage and she only started chasing after me some time after she tossed her STBX out, I do think - much to my discomfort - that I am lightly tarred with that brush.
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Just a bit of other news. Prior to heading out on my date, I stopped at the cafe for my scone and got teased by my friends there about my lack of dates for the party. "Stalker Lady's" daughter happened to be working in the kitchen, so I didn't bother correcting anyone but complimented her very sparkly shoes.
I noticed in the fridge a couple of days ago some left-overs that didn't come from here that are exactly the sort of food that my ex cooks. So - S24 must have gone to see his mother for a "home-cooked" dinner when I had my "close encounter".
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One final thing that I want to explore a bit. We talk a lot here about OW and about the sort of attraction that they may have for our spouses. Over the last couple of years, I've done a "lot" of reading and also hauled out my own entrails for examination.
Looking at the pool of available women who are out there to date, there is certainly a number of them who would be easy "rescues". Single moms like my friend at the flower shop whose lives would be made dramatically easier by an established albeit rather older man. Even younger married women could well be interested in seemingly making that jump from the "hamburger years" to "steak". There are also those who just feel that they "need" to have a man in their lives and will take pretty much whichever one comes along.
I know that I am vulnerable to pretty much any woman who would take an active interest in me and tbh - am a bit paranoid about that.
We all know that I have a "white knight" complex. But I also have a fear of being taken advantage of and then discarded. There was a letter published on another site that gelled this for me. It was from a young OW to her married lover explaining that while she appreciated all he had done for her that now that she had had his help to start her own business and was successful that she felt that the age difference was just too much and "buh bye!".
With that said, it's time for me to get changed, have a bowl of soup at the cafe - they said they'd save me a bowl of the carrot and ginger - and then off to see Man of LaMancha by myself - something that really surprised CL who was sure I would have taken S24.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I'm glad you had a good evening out w/CL and were able to have a nice chat about some things. However, I do find it a bit strange that she refers to you as a "sort of Uncle" to other people. Does she have an issue w/telling people that you are just friends? After all, she is separated and preparing for a divorce and I do not think people would question her being in the company of another man who is not her husband. In today's society, people look at separation/divorce so differently than they did back in the 60's, etc.
It's going to be a big adjustment for her life style and having money on hand. She's going to have to learn how to manage her money more smartly and learn to live within her means. That may frustrate her for a while until she gets the hang of it.
I hope that she can figure things out and find her inner peace and strength to move forward.
Andrew, I do think you are right about one thing, you need to step back and allow her the time to focus on the business at hand of her divorce and dealing w/her children. Allow her to be the one to initiate a text, email or phone call. As we say around here, give her all the space that she needs and when she's ready, she'll contact you.
Sounds like you have a nice afternoon planned. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Did you have a good time? What was your favourite moment of your evening? Aside from the tight black Moxie dresses, that chain is here too.
Good to see that you both could sit for two hours and still have stuff to talk about. I get that a lot of that was her talking about her life, and you’re right see needs to let some of that out.
I am sure she has a plan or hope, much like yourself, for where things may be heading. Those flickers at certain times could also be her just feeling happy and wanted, something I am sure is in short supply given her present relationship woes. Saying “yes dear” and flirting with offering a spare room would give her heart a flutter.
I support your plan of stepping back a bit and seeing what she is wanting to do. Not playing hard to get, just keeping the pressure low and going with the flow.
There are some red flags of course, the shock at considering this a date, the uncle idea, and such. Hey none of us are free from baggage or flag free. Besides like you said not too official, so just enjoy her company.
I am glad you can see your vulnerability and recognize your desire to be the white knight. I am not sure it is quite that stark and consuming as you have stated, it is however present and you are aware if it. The fear and paranoia of being used and discarded is something everyone who has been hurt feels. It is difficult to trust and risk, so take it slow. Live and love like you’ve never been hurt. As I told my daughter after her broken heart (and mine) - I will and you will risk your heart again, it is so worth it.
I am interested in your answers to my two original questions I assume you would like another date. I also assume the good night kiss was not on target, something you would like to see remedied.
I am sure many jaws dropped, your corner of the world will be a buzz with gossip, espically with the last minute arranging of this date. I am guessing not many knew about it, considering you didn’t know until almost just before. The next few days could be interesting for you with prying questions from the carting people in your life. I have limited my nosiness to two questions - for now.
Take care and have a great day
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
In the womanese I speak and hear spoken, there are two possible interpretations of a woman telling a man that she tells other people he is her "sort-of Uncle."
1. "I am getting the sense that you think of me as a potential romantic partner, and I want to let you know that I don't think of you that way, but I don't want to come right out and say it because I don't want to embarrass you (if I'm right) or me (if I'm wrong about what you are thinking)."
2. "You and I both know we are dating, but I feel embarrassed or guilty about that and so I need to let you know that I am not ready to admit to anyone that we are dating and this is the cover story I'm giving to allow me to spend time with you without anyone suspecting that we are dating."
A look of surprise at the mention that the two of you are dating supports interpretation number 1.
Not wanting to be seen with you in public could support either interpretation.
It's possible that this form of womanese is specific to my demographic or social group (since neither Job nor Ginger commented on this), but I've seen it mirrored in movies, TV shows, etc., so I think it's fairly widespread.
There are other words that women use to communicate meaning number 1. Describing someone as "sweet" for example, although that one is used just as often by men to communicate the same thing.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Which she may or may not know.
