Quotes Found on DivorceBusting Forums (5)

[Ready2Change]

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Last night I went to my first "real" GAL activity in a long time. Board games with some people I found on Meetup. We played Room 25, King of Tokyo, and a strange game about figuring out who's lying about being a werewolf. One guy there is super into games and is going to Germany next week for something called Essen Spiel where they show off new games.

Then a most bizarre thing happened. Suddenly we paused because it was time to do a discussion? The topic was grief. Most of the guys there (probably all about my age) talked about how they coped with losing loved ones, pets, and so forth. I talked about the loss of my M, my in-laws (who I was closer with than my own siblings), etc. One guy said he started going to this group because he was divorced a couple years ago. They were all very nice. So GAL turned into group therapy. Wasn't expecting that. But I had a good time. I will be going back.

I will say that I'm starting to understand the benefits of GAL. Having had a good night last night, meeting people who seem to like me despite all the things W has told me are wrong with me, that's helpful. Maybe I'd be feeling even worse now if I hadn't done that.

Great analogy:

IC says I have my foot nailed to the ground and I refuse to pull out the nail.

Pull out that nail, it will hurt immensely for a brief period of time, but look at the alternative. Would you rather be nailed to the floor, just stuck, while the nail causes your foot to fester and eventually your whole leg has to be removed? Get what I am saying?

[Ready2Change]

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I think the same advice I have been getting also applies to you. You just need to continue to go out and be amongst people even if it means going by yourself. Just interact with the people around you, it will remind you of what positive human interaction feels like and lift up your spirits. GAL is naturally a great tool if you use it correctly...you are either all in or all out. If you do it half heartedly (like me) you will only get half the result. It could be that the hobbies or activities are not stimulating your brain enough, maybe try something that is both hard mentally and physically so your brain does not have the opportunity to switch to the topic of your R. Think of things like Rock Climbing or Learning of to Salsa dance, both require a lot of concentration and would provide your brain the necessary break from your sitch. ...hopefully you get the idea.

[Ready2Change]

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GALg with kids is just as important as GAlg on your own. Foster your relationship with them, protect them as much as you can from the damage D will cause. They will remember that you were there for them when they are older.

[Ready2Change]

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First, believe NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, she says. Both positive and negative So many come here and say "she says we are done, there is no hope to reconcile, and it is over, move on." and they are in deep despair that there is no hope.

There is hope. Even after D, and years apart, there is hope if you are still open to it. Go read a poster named ItHurts thread and you will see there is always hope.

I see you already questions GAL. You just have to do it. DBing isn't about questioning, it is getting on the horse and start exercising the DB muscles. GAL is impossible to do while just talking about doing it, you have to do it. Detachment is impossible to do if you just talk aout it, you have to start working on detaching. 180ing the same way.

You see, the WAS, especially WSs, will talk about a lot of things and do very little of them. They tend to be mostly talk, and little action. As the LBS your job is to let your actions do the talking! Don't talk about it, just do it! We fall into that trap all the time. "I am going to talk to her about this.....I am going to talk to her about that........" Words are not helpful to your sitch. Actions are. Words are method of trying to control. "It really hurt me that you moved out of the bedroom." So? She already knows that, why enunciate it? Actions are about controlling what you can control: YOU. GAL, 180s, detachment. Those are things YOU can do.

Remember: Let her go to get her back.

[Ready2Change]

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.. the W has formed a foundation of resentment, disrespect, and rebellion. At the point when she drops the bomb, her selfishness and sense of entitlement is her driving force that leads her to break up the MR. When the H experiences the bomb, he is in shock. He tries to figure out what happened. Then he tries to jump into Super Husband mode and do things that he thinks will turn her back into the MR. However, these two people are on an entirely different time frame from one another. He wants to correct everything he might have done wrong, but she's through with the MR.


At this point in time, I don't think there is any 180 action that will "nice" her back into the M. You are torturing yourself by going over these old text/emails. I think you are probably experiencing desperation to fix what's broken, but it doesn't work that way. A wayward W is a different breed from what you might read in some marriage help books. She's lost all respect for her H, and that killed her attraction for him. Do you understand what I'm saying? Until she respects you as a man.....she will not feel desire for you. She doesn't care how much you want to work on the MR and show her how you can change. She is past that point. All those "signs" you listed, and then excused away......is very telling about your MR.

I realize this hurts you to read, and I'm sorry. I'm not saying that all hope is gone forever. I'm just telling you that the feelings you are having about "showing" her your 180's, is not what will wake her up. It's your way of trying to repair or change the H in the past...…..but, she's done with the past, so it won't work. You can't go backwards to fix things. Maybe you need to stop trying to be the H you wished you'd been, and become the man you need to be. Stop trying to convince her or persuade her about anything. Leave her alone, and let her go.

The WW respects one thing, and one thing only...…….strength. Therefore, she has to see everything you do as coming from a place of inner strength. Now, before your mind starts jumping into some "nice guy" scenario where you play the martyr while she slaughters you and stripes you of every fiber of self-respect...….let me explain that she does not see that as being strong. She does not respect a man who lets a woman walk all over him...….even if he loves her. She respects the man who stands up to her and puts her in her place (so to speak) when she's out of line. He stands up for himself, instead of cow down and apologize.....hoping that will settle her down. He's not afraid of her anger. The WW has developed a mindset that is cold and hard. She's not the girl you M. So, forget trying to impress her or persuade her with some soft, goody-goody 180 behavior.

You can be the nice guy and try to win her back with cotton candy techniques (like an apology letter), but it will only fill her with disgust. She may, or may not, be obvious about it. But, she will take advantage of you. The WW is going for whatever benefits her most. Why am I telling you all this stuff you don't want to hear? B/c I am being "real" with you, and telling you to stop searching text/emails and stop trying to find your old W in this wayward woman that's come out of the MR. The only hope of reaching her is for you to change your nice guy behavior and learn how to stand up for yourself. WW's need tough love. I'm not endorsing any type of abusive behavior. If you aren't familiar with "tough love", I recommend you google it.

You may not be able to stop the D proceedings. That doesn't mean the two of you can never get back together in the future......if that's what you want. Currently, the boat is sinking and you've got to save yourself. So, get a plan of action in how you'll survive this crisis. I suggest you get your eyes off the M and off the WW, and save yourself. You can't save anything else until you save yourself. I suggest you not use "her" lawyer. Her lawyer is looking out for her best interest......not yours. Sorry to say, but you cannot trust your W at this time. Do whatever you have to do to protect your finances, property, retirement plan, etc. If you have children, be sure you get them, at least, 50 percent of the time. Be fair, but that's all. Giving her more will not make her feelings change toward you.

Now is the time for you to evaluate your standards and principles by which you live. Don't compromise your integrity or your moral/spiritual beliefs, trying to get back a woman who doesn't want you. Be a man of honor and courage, and do what you believe is right. These are the things to focus on during a crisis.



Please don't. This is your NGS telling you to submit to her, regardless if you're really guilty or not. I'll bet that in the past, you would apologize whenever she acted cold, angry, moody, and you didn't even know what you were apologizing about. It was your go-to plan for fixing whatever was wrong with her.....and you figured it must be something you did, so you'd say, "I'm sorry". This is just your old way of trying to fix things, and she will not respect it.


You are saying, "Why didn't I try what doesn't work, one last time". It doesn't work!!

At this point, what can you lose? Right...….so why don't you do something different? Why don't you follow what we are telling you? If your way worked, don't you think we would be shouting it from the roof tops? Do you have any idea how many LBH's have tried what you are wanting to do? I've read hundreds of stories like this...…...and not ONE worked successfully by sending an apology letter.


Hero, listen to me. She doesn't care! It's too late for all that stuff. She doesn't care what you've learned or how you think you've changed......and she won't appreciate how sorry you feel for past offenses. Just don't do it.



Well, that's a common reaction, too. Just for the record, MWD does not separate WW and WAW. She lumps them together, which is okay, except the WW usually requires a little tougher love. Do you know why it's tough? B/c it's tough for you. Just like with no contact. It's tough, isn't it? Have you conquered it yet? No, b/c it's tough and you don't like doing it. If you can't manage to stop contacting her, how do you think you will handle a divorce? Don't you think she should experience just a little taste of how life will be without you?

I wouldn't say you are bull-headed. You are in a state of panic. I'm not pro-divorce, but I have not seen anyone die from it yet. Life goes on. In some cases, it gets much better. Stop clinging to someone who doesn't love you and treat you well. Hold your head up and maintain your dignity.

If you have to persuade someone to love you......what does that say about your self worth? Become the man who has attractive attributes (self-confidence, assertiveness, decisiveness, male dominance, leadership, pride, high standards, etc.) and it will draw those who are of quality, and you won't have to persuade someone to love you.

[burned]

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So what is more important to you? To protect yourself from more pain, or Ring with your W? ... the answer to that question will inform a lot of your next steps.

[Ready2Change]

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IMHO, waywardness begins in the heart. It is formed from unresolved resentment, disrespect, and finally....rebellion. Other negative issues are often included, but these three make up the main foundation. What I am saying is that waywardness is more than just overt behavior that is inappropriate for a spouse. It starts with her having these resentments she can't get past and it eventually affects her respect for her H as a man. When the respect is damaged, it kills her desire for him. A sexually starved MR is often the first sign her desire for him is waning. She may continue to live with him, raise a family, etc. However, she carries these feelings in her heart. She may show him some levels of disrespect by the way she talks to him, or puts him down as a man, etc. She may never physically cheat on him. IMHO, the physical cheating is not the only defining behavior of waywardness......but many H's don't get too concerned until they know another man has entered the picture. Many WW's have emotional affairs. Anyway, I explain more in my threads, "Help for the LBH with a WW".

[Ready2Change]

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...she admits to kissing. I am reminded of something one of the board's favorite vet's use to say. He said a WW will usually admit to a level just lower than the full truth. That's how teenagers will communicate sometimes, to test the reaction of their parent. I guess it makes sense, cause WW's are like rebellious teenagers.

I think everyone who comes to the board is seeking help, or they wouldn't be here. People get upset if we don't give them hope, and they get upset if we do....and reconciliation never comes. They say we offered them false hope. I am a realist and I probably speak more bluntly than some would prefer, but I will be as honest as I can. Ultimately, it's up to you as to how long you want to hope for a reconciliation. If you can move forward with life, and still hold to some hope that one day both you and your spouse can heal from all the issues......then that's up to you. Some people just don't know how to move forward apart from their spouse. They are to co-dependent on the MR. Those are the ones that have such a difficult time even thinking of giving up hope......b/c of their own inner issues.

Here's the thing......the more people giving you advice, the more chance of receiving different advice... Some of us on the board don't always see eye to eye about everything. What's the chances you are going to hear everyone say the same thing?

It's just more disrespect coming from her. Look, she feels disgusted with you, and blames her unhappiness on this bad MR. That doesn't mean you are disgusting person...….it just means those are the feelings of a WW. Waywardness is all about the lack of respect. In order to draw your W, she'll need to see you in a light of strength. She needs to respect you as man, first. Understand? A woman has to feel respect for her H as a man, before she can feel desire for him as her H. She's not going to do anything lovingly from her heart as a wife, when she doesn't respect you as a man. You are working hard to learn new skills and better yourself as a man. It's a growth process. Along the way, you'll learn that firm boundaries are needed with a WW. If she doesn't feel the sting of her disrespect and selfishness, then she's not going to suddenly change for the better (without an ulterior motive). This subject (boundaries) within itself is too much to cover in this post.

Wait a minute. That's DB language that is used on the board. Why would your WW being using that expression, unless you are repeating to her the things you pick up on the board? It's a pet peeve of mine, I suppose, but she's not the one showing up for class...….YOU are. Don't be one of these guys that think they are going to get somewhere with the WW by flashing some of the board's phrases around with her. If I'm wrong, I apologize, and just stick it under you hat. Do you follow what I'm saying here? Don 't be sharing DB terminology or phrases or anything in your tool box with her. Don't even tell her you are working on yourself. Don't tell her how badly you want to save the MR. Don't tell her how bad you hurt. Don't share your goals with her. Don't tell her anything, unless we specifically tell you to say it. Don't talk to her about the OM and their "relationship". If they are having sex in front of D4.....or you have reason to be concerned about her being around OM.....then get legal advice of what you can do. Otherwise, they will laugh at your powerlessness over what they do in their "relationship". Learn what you can control, and what you can't. Are you getting the picture? .....Look, what did you expect to get when you told her that? Again, I suspect you picked it up from the board warning you not to trust her about child visitation......b/c we have learned from people's experiences. That's for you ONLY, not for you to run your mouth to her. Is there anything you haven't told her that you've gotten off the board? This is like chopping off your own foot. It gets you nowhere but behind.

High emotional state sounds like a female. Women get in high emotional state b/c we are emotional creatures, sometimes called the weaker sex b/c of our capacity for high emotional state of mind. On the other hand, we women need our men to remain calm, in command, in charge, and strong enough to handle our high emotional state. Sorry for being so tough on you. I'm really not trying to beat you up. I want to help you, and pointing these things out is how I know where to get started. When I read your first post, I thought to myself that you probably did not have many, or if any, close male buddies. It always shows whenever a man has mostly women in his life. Just as women need other women, so do men need to spend time around other men. So, I want to encourage you to try to spend more time around strong, positive, males.

[Ready2Change]

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If she ends up telling me she is going to, I'm not sure how to handle it. I think she's going to try to float the idea of her still coming to our house to eat, put kids to bed and then go back to her place to sleep.

"W this arrangement doesn't work for me. We both need space from one another to figure out what we want in the future. If you are around all the time we won't be getting the space we need."

I don’t think what you are proposing works for me.

STRENGTH. Does "I don't think" sound like strength?

THIS ARRANGEMENT DOESN'T WORK FOR ME!

You have just as much right and power in this arrangement as she does.

How I want to respond, if she tries to use that against me: “I know I said that and I still believe that and will always believe it, but this is your decision not mine.”

Why do you have to respond? She has her opinion and you have your opinion.

Again, you are trying to use logic and reason and guilt to get her to stay with you. Won't work.

[burned]

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I think all of us have an expectation that S will "wake them up" and teach them some hard lessons on how hard life is going to be without us. Unfortunately it rarely works out that way. They are actually happy, even elated to be out on their own. Sure it's a lot of work but most of them embrace it. They've been partnered with someone for so long that they've never really had a chance to "prove themselves" and they actually enjoy the opportunity. It's very, very rare that a WAS comes running back shortly after S. They need to get over the initial excitement of trying something new, which can take many months. Then they start getting bored and lonely and talk to guys, or maybe go out, and find out the grass ain't greener after all, and in fact is usually pretty brown, dead and rotten. And they look back and what do they see, THAT is where you come in and what your part is in all of this. Do they see a sad, dejected, demoralized heap on the floor or do they see a strong, confident, good-looking, well dressed, fit man that is living a full life without them? So there are your goals. You can't throw a rope around her and drag her back. But you CAN become the spouse only a fool would leave. And if she leaves anyway, then you will shake your head at what a fool she is.