ambivalent WW - detach? -- Part 3

[burned]

Translation: detach, GAL.

For some reason It hurts like heck when your mother says it. Almost like suddenly it’s real.

[burned]

Anyone out there? Having a rough day. Have to move out of my current apt. by Sunday, can’t move into the new one until Oct. 3. Facing the prospect of living out of my car for the next 2 weeks. Six months ago I was in a house with a dog, 2 car garage, pear trees, enclosed porch...

I can’t figure out if I love W or resent her down to my bones.

Detachment: am I supposed to act like we’re not married, just strangers who used to know each other? I’m buying a TV for an apartment that she will probably never visit.

How can you love someone when they are trying as hard as they can to remove you from their life? Dropping you on your butt without giving a hoot about whether it is ruining your life? And acting like the more you take care of yourself, the better they will feel because then they don’t have to feel guilty about being heartless, selfish, cruel...

[MoveFrwd]

Maybe look into an extended stay hotel? I’m sure that there are better options than your car available for you.

As for moving forward, stop dwelling on what you’ve lost. How can you instead think about the opportunities that you have? Take the time to pick the “perfect tv” in the “perfect spot” in your new place. Do some research to get what you want. How about decorations - I know it might feel sucky, but try to pick things you like and want to show off.

And yeah. Start to freaking GAL. it’s hard but that’s not an excuse. It’s like you are purposely keeping yourself in the “feel bad” zone. Why are you making that choice?

[neffer]

Get out and GAL B! Welcome the changes, you are moving forward!

[Davide]

Burned,

If you really GAL and get out there and enjoy yourself your life WILL BE better, and it won't matter what reaction that provokes in your W.

I know it is tough right now, but you are looking backwards and looking for the negatives. I fall into that trap at times as well. Take some deep breathes and bring your mind back to the present. What concrete steps could you take right now to make yourself feel better. Go to a movie, walk in the park, join a gym. There are endless possibilities.

Hang in there.

[burned]

Sick to my stomach.

WW texts "Hi, are you doing OK?" I respond, "Yes, you?" thinking she wants to say something nice or talk about whatever. Nope, just, "Letting you know that I got the mortgage bill and I'll be paying it from the shared account." So I respond, "That's fine, thanks." And she responds, "OK, thanks."

I guess I handled it well from a DB perspective, maybe a bit too much pursuit but oh well.

Just hurts that she's more detached than I am. Feels like in her mind we just need to get along minimally until D. That's all that's left...business decisions.

Doing some GAL this weekend. Going to a concert in the city with the parents.

Can't stop thinking about her and what we had. I miss her, so much.

[neffer]

Be strong man! Enjoy the concert. Force you enjoy the concert...Live the present. You can do it.

[hoosjim]

Wow, burned... I almost dont know where to begin with you. Sandi probably would. She's great that way, always seems to know just exactly what needs to be said no matter at what point she jumps into a thread/sitch. Hope she's okay.

Let me start by saying 4 things:

1) Let me tell you my philosophy, briefly, on DB-ing. Yes, DB-ing is all about "you." And "detaching" is a key, key, and in fact in nearly every case an indispensable element of DB-ing. That said, "detachment" does not, IMHO (and i'll prolly catch some flack here, but whatever, i just gotta be me) mean that you have to completely "not care." Nor does it mean that you have to give up all hope of ever reconciling with your spouse. This is, after all, divorce-BUSTING, right?!?! (And, besides, I'm sorry, no one, no matter what they say, is that "zen.") To my mind, the possibility, nay, the desirability of reconciling with one's spouse is no way inconsistent with the principles of DB-ing. Quite the contrary. While, of course, the steps we take in terms of GAL are absolutely necessary for us to become as fulfilled as we can possibly be as individuals, and to prepare us to bring the most we can bring, the absolute best "us". to whatever relationship the future brings us, ... it is in fact undeniable that the desired outcome in many cases is a reconciliation with one's spouse. And there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. The problem arises where your future happiness is or becomes entirely staked on reconciling with your spouse. While there is certainly nothing wrong with preferring (or even as a secondary matter working towards) that outcome, you need to have a life that fulfills you on your own. You need to know that, even as you prefer a result where you and your spouse reconcile, that you will be okay no matter what happens. (Christianity is a great reinforcer of and provides a great foundation for this mindset, but I understand that that is not everyone's cup of tea). And you need to know that you will be okay specifically no matter the outcome of your MR or indeed the outcome of ANY relationship. It is a very delicate line to walk. However, if you can manage that, you will be well on your way to very fulfilling life no matter who you do or do not end up with, and you will be a fantastic partner to anyone you do end up in a relationship with.

2) Dealing with the cacophony of voices and sometimes inconsistent-seeming advice. Everyone's sitch on here is different. Every. One. And the advice or insights folks offer up on here will, invariably, to greater or lesser degrees, be colored by their own sitch and their own experiences. It's human nature. This will also, invariably, lead to differing takes, at times, on your sitch or what you are doing in it. Don't despair! Remember, we are all on here to help you! The best thing you can do, to minimize confusion and avoid analysis paralysis is, imho, default to looking for common themes and threads. The fundamentals of DB-ing are consistent, and pretty much everyone on here will trace their insights back to those. Look for the commonality in the posts people make on here, and focus on those. Beyond that, try to understand the other posters' perspectives and how their similarities (or, alternatively, the differences) can be useful to you in gleaning valuable insights from their posts. This seems easy and self evident to me as i write it, but, then again, I get paid (very well) to do that sort of thing every day, so it's second nature to me, even as i have to admit that i, myself, was frequently afflicted with analysis paralysis and frozen by the cacophony of many voices.

3) You are not alone. We are with you. Everyone on this board, and particularly the people chiming in her on your thread, wants the best for you and is pulling for you. Yes, even while smacking you around with a 2 x4, we care and want you to succeed. We have all "been there" and we all know how it feels. It [censored], but you know something? You WILL get through it. There is an amazing, awesome, joyful, "burned" inside you who has alot to bring to any relationship... it's true. You can BE that person. But you have to want it. And, like anything worthwhile in life, its going to be hard. Just remember, we're with you.

4) You had a spectacular moment of clarity a few posts back where you said:

WW has gotten just about everything she wanted since BD, because I kept giving it to her in the name of being nice so that she wouldn’t leave.

And this, despite everything, shows good self awareness. REMEMBER THIS POST. You, I believe, know what you should be doing.... the other posters here have been giving you good advice. It's just up to you to implement it. You have not, i think you would admit, done a stellar job of this so far (but, hey, i doubt any of us did at first... i know i didnt). That said, while you say that things look bleak, i would say they are not without hope. YOU certainly have a lot of room to get out and start doing some things to improve your own life-- you sound like a bright guy, i'd be surprised if you don't have a few interests you could parlay into some fulfilling GAL activities. I always offer up that the two most fundamental and foundational ones for me were 1) Faith and 2) Fitness. I prolly wouldn not be where i am today without either of them. For the first, I was blessed to find a church that really "spoke" to me, and, quite honestly, that faith kept me going even in my darkest days... because i knew i was loved, that i had value, and that everything was going to work out okay for me in the end... regardless of what happened with my MR (though i did, quite honestly, steadfastly believe that God had "spoken" to me consistently that He wanted my MR to survive and that it could... if i were obedient to Him.) For the second, i just honestly find it nearly impossible to feel badly when i am working out and the endorphins start flowing. IT's a great way to kill time, Very worthwhile in terms of self image and just how you "feel.", and its fairly good way to meet people. As to the latter.... GET OUT THERE AND MEET SOME PEOPLE. I have found that, by and large, most people are pretty good folks, and most are willing to talk to you. I am not a particularly extroverted person, but i do enjoy the companionship of others. Shortly after my ordeal started, i cultivated a couple of regular hang-outs where i would go for dinner or maybe a beer or two (but gotta watch that, drinking can cause some problems as you can see if you read through my threads), and i became a "regular". Made a lot of casual friends and those two places became a refuge for me... a place where i still go now and where my wife goes too, with me. But do SOMETHING. Life is miracle... take advantage of it

Ill be back with some more specific thoughts later. But i gotta run right now. Bottom line, though, is that you've let her lead you down her path this entire time. She has been in control and (2x4 coming) has had your balls in her hip pocket for a while. You need to reclaim them. Every WW (and yours is definitely a WW, though i am curious about her past and upbringing-- i tend to think that some are more wayward than others) has the same dream: That she will ride off into the sunset with her AP, continue living in her marital home and collect generous alimony payment while maintaining the "friendship" with her ball-less Ex, and that everyone will love her and no one will hate her and she will live happily/cheatily ever after. And you, my friend, have been helping her right along to the fulfillment of that dream...

[hoosjim]

That was a really downbeat way to end the post, so let me add before I go: I repeat-- Your sitch is not, I think, without hope! Not yet, at least. BUT YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY GOT TO CHANGE YOUR APPROACH! WRT yourself as well as WRT your W. You, burned, have this in you! But its up to you. Stop being the victim and start making things happen for YOU.

BE the ball, Danny...

[burned]

Wow. Thank you. I can't exaggerate how helpful, informative, inspiring, and timely a sermon that was. I will re-read it several times to make sure I got everything. Are you a psychologist? Sounds like you earn your pay and then some. Thank you for the pro bono work you do here!

As an apology to everyone, my "woe is me" attitude this morning turned out to be a case of having forgotten to eat for 24 hours. Let that be a lesson to us all: analysis paralysis can be hazardous to your health.

I'm very appreciative of all of the support I've been getting these last few days. I doubt it shows when I'm complaining, but I really mean it.

Today I got smacked around by some real-life [verbal] 2x4s. A wise psychiatrist friend/colleague had pretty much the same advice as everyone else: take back my self-respect by standing up for myself against a person who, at least lately, has been treating me quite terribly, almost to the point that you could call it bullying. So DB is starting to feel like something I've been needing for a long time. Goodbye, avoidant personality disorder!

Bottom line, though, is that you've let her lead you down her path this entire time. She has been in control and (2x4 coming) has had your balls in her hip pocket for a while. You need to reclaim them. Every WW (and yours is definitely a WW, though i am curious about her past and upbringing-- i tend to think that some are more wayward than others) has the same dream: That she will ride off into the sunset with her AP, continue living in her marital home and collect generous alimony payment while maintaining the "friendship" with her ball-less Ex, and that everyone will love her and no one will hate her and she will live happily/cheatily ever after. And you, my friend, have been helping her right along to the fulfillment of that dream...

I'll tell you about FOO in my next tldr post. Hoping I can get some insight into when, if ever, she will snap out of this. But as a matter of fact the argument that set me off today was about whether I'll support her financially for the next 4 years of grad school. WW: "Well, I supported you when you were in grad school!" Yes, dear, and we were newlyweds, and we were building a life together, not tearing it apart (of course I didn't say that, that's bad DB). I said "Well, if we're S then yeah I'll pay. If we're D then you get half of our assets and you can do what you want." WW: "I don't want half of our assets! I just need enough to get through school!" OK, fine, then you get much less, suit yourself. As it pertains to FOO, that statement was VERY telling, and very consistent with what I've learned about her lately.

But THEN she ended the string of texts with her typical hook: "Hope you're having a nice day, I know you love September because it's the best month for photography." I let it sit for 5 hours before responding. But that was the straw that broke the camel's back. It is becoming much clearer to me now that she keeps me in line by throwing me these crumbs. But they work the other way, too. They help her feel good about herself. "Look at me, I'm not so bad, I still send nice texts to my husband." FOO: Irish, Catholic. Argument=bad. Sweep it under the rug and put on a big fake smile. Does she think that absolves her of the past (and probably ongoing) betrayal? I sure don't, and I'm done playing that game.

So in the course of one day I've swung completely around from being a helpless victim to being righteously angry. And don't even get me started on the recurring themes I've been hearing from all of the people who know us IRL and have just been waiting for a chance to tell me how badly they've seen her treat me over the last decade. I know the opinions are biased and the statements are intended to be supportive rather than critical, but it's enlightening. It really helps with detachment. It's also somewhat bleak since the verdict from most sides seems to be: "She has always been like this, you spent 10 years heroically trying to appease her, and it was fine so long as YOU were getting what YOU needed out of the relationship (joy, companionship, sex) but she tore up that contract and now you're holding on to something that ceased to exist a year ago when she jumped into bed with him. She will always be unhappy and there's no evidence that she has any insight into any of this. She will repeat the pattern with the next sucker, while you'll be happier than you could ever imagine."

I had to hear it from a few different people before it started to sink in: "She has been treating you like dirt, and you're worried about how sad she will be without you, and how sad you'll be without her." (That's my pathology, not hers. We both have some healing to do.)

Unfortunately I think I'm now crossing over into the land of "why the heck would I want to be with someone like that?" Well, I have to set that one aside for now since the choice isn't mine. I'm hoping this is part of the process. I know that relationships aren't about power, but the feeling of regaining at least SOME control is very freeing.

I repeat-- Your sitch is not, I think, without hope! Not yet, at least.

Very curious to hear more about why you say this. I know that there's always room for hope. But she is steamrollering toward D and acting like she's looking forward to it. But this post is already obscenely long so I'll shut my yap now.

---

In the meantime: GAL weekend! Lobster tonight with the parents. Tomorrow is a fundraiser walk with coworkers, and then a wedding (to meet someone new, maybe?). Sunday is a trip with the parents for Japanese food and a concert in my home city. It's all the stuff I used to want to do but wasn't able to because I had to do what SHE wanted to do or else suffer the inevitable consequences.

And I do have to thank WW, because in the last month I have seen a side of my parents that I never knew existed, and we're getting along better than ever before. So there's one thing.