3 year old EA - where do I go from here?

[Matrix5]

You ever try to hold on to a wet bar of soap?

The more you squeeze the harder it is to hold.

Again read the pursuit and distance thread, and after that STOP PURSUING!

I'm onto it now. Thank you!

[LH19]

M,

She is manipulating you. They are both cake eating big time getting the security from their marriages and the excitement from the affair.

Us vets know the signs we have read these stories hundreds of times. Most people are in denial when they get here because they just can't believe their spouse could ever do such a thing to them.

You need to try to take your focus of your W and place it on you and your kids. Dig down deep and decide if an affair is a deal breaker for you.

Be aware that most likely things have to get a lot worse before they can get better. Just prepare yourself for the long haul because I don't think things are going to change anytime soon.

[Matrix5]

M,

She is manipulating you. They are both cake eating big time getting the security from their marriages and the excitement from the affair.

Us vets know the signs we have read these stories hundreds of times. Most people are in denial when they get here because they just can't believe their spouse could ever do such a thing to them.

You need to try to take your focus of your W and place it on you and your kids. Dig down deep and decide if an affair is a deal breaker for you.

Be aware that most likely things have to get a lot worse before they can get better. Just prepare yourself for the long haul because I don't think things are going to change anytime soon.

Isn't 3 years long enough for an affair to have played out? I mean at this point, can't it be just a friendship that will last years?

[Matrix5]

One thing I didn't mention was the charterer and the nature of OM. We have been sitting 3ft apart from each other for the last 10 years. I consider him more than a co-worker. He's a friend of mine. From a charterer standpoint, if he were a dog, I'd describe him as a half chiawawa for his nervousness and paranoia with regards to certain things, and half golden retriever, for his fun, laughing, loving, and goofy character - which is something I think my wife is attracted (I'm more of an introvert as mentioned in the OP). Yet, that's a guy that freaks out whenever W tells him I know they have been talking, afraid he'd lose his job and/or his family over this A.

Meanwhile he sits right next to me, and every time he picks up his cellphone to answer a text, I can't help but wonder if it's my W on the other side of that conversation. It would have been easier had he been in a different department or different part of the building. But the guys sits right next to me, and to make matter worse, we report to the same boss. If the A was to ever be validated and exploded, I would not be able to sit next to the guy. What do I do then? Let my personal life get into my professional life? Quick my job over this? I like what I do, I get paid well, and have been with this company a lot longer than he has.

I feel like turning around to him and ask him point blank: Are you screwing my W?!?! But I know nothing good will come out of such question.

[LH19]

Yet, that's a guy that freaks out whenever W tells him I know they have been talking, afraid he'd lose his job and/or his family over this A.

You don't see that as a sign of guilt? Look man I would love to be wrong but where there is smoke there is fire. Way too many things point to that direction.

I have no problem looking him in the eye man to man and asking him. I would be able to tell by his response and body language.

[Matrix5]

Yet, that's a guy that freaks out whenever W tells him I know they have been talking, afraid he'd lose his job and/or his family over this A.

You don't see that as a sign of guilt? Look man I would love to be wrong but where there is smoke there is fire. Way too many things point to that direction.

I have no problem looking him in the eye man to man and asking him. I would be able to tell by his response and body language.

Sign of guilt? Knowing the guy's thinking: "Great, I'm just talking to his wife and I'm about to lose my job over this. I don't need this, it's not worth it" - his exact words. And yet they continue doing it, albeit I have a feeling my wife initiates most of it.

Guilt for different people means different things on different levels. As I mentioned above the guy is paranoid by nature. He has too much to lose by screwing around with the wife of the guy that sits right next to him at work. His career, his own wife and kids, etc.

I’m not saying there’s nothing there. I have no doubt they meet from time to time. Definitely talk on the phone on a fairly regularly basis, and definitely text each other. But I don’t think he’s actually sleeping with her. That would be one step too big for him to take, given what he has to lose, and whose W he’s friends with. He freaked out from the mere mentioning that I know they have been talking, forget about potential sexual relationship.

I already confronted him a couple of years ago. His response was pretty convincing. He didn’t deny chatting with her, but he swore on his kids he didn’t lay a hand on her.

Am I 1,000% sure they are not sleeping together? No. I haven’t delved deep enough to find out for a fact. I keep on bouncing between GAL and snooping around. I feel that I do well for a while GALing and doing 180, but when I confront her about some circumstantial evidence, all she does is spit fire back at me, get defensive, and blames the failure of this marriage on me, for suffocating her and not giving her space. So at this point it all comes down to 1 of 2 options:

1. Continue GAL and 180, and REALLY let it all go, and let it play out however it plays out (though I must be candid: after 3 years I’m starting to lose my patience, even though I’ve only been GALing and 180ing the last few months).
2. Go full Magnum PI on her and uncover whatever there is to uncover

The way I see things, this is how it can all play out:

1. If I go GAL and 180. She may or may not come back.
2. If I go PI mode on her, she definitely not coming back, and may not even want her back, depending on what I uncover.

So far, all I have is some circumstantial stuff and some clear cut stuff (phone logs). But I don’t have enough at the moment to call her out on anything without her calling me BS on the whole thing.

I’m leaning towards continuing with my GAL and 180. I mean honestly, I have a lot to fix about myself regardless, and if doesn’t end up saving this marriage, at least I can use my W as a guinea pig for the next R. I have to be prepared and be a better man for the next R.

Thoughts?

[Matrix5]

Another thing I should have mentioned is that my wife has tried befriending his wife. She even took the kids and drove out to their house this summer to spend an afternoon with his wife and their kids (we were at work). I didn’t join after work, because it was a weeknight, and I didn’t want to drive out to his place, which is 45 minutes away each way without traffic. Also, because we are friends outside of work, they have invited us over to their summer house a couple of time last year. This year it didn’t happened, but my W wanted me to ask him and see if they’d have us for a long weekend (of course all I wanted to answer with was “why don’t you ask him yourself, since you two are such good friends”, but I knew I might as well shoot myself in the foot). I mean why would she put herself in such predicament? Me, him, her – one triangle, and if that’s not enough, have his wife there too…. For a full long weekend

[LH19]

M,

Your in denial my friend. Did you ever see The Godfather. Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer. If your so convinced it’s just a friendship then just accept it and stop bringing it up.

As for a PI, why would she ever have to know unless she was guilty? He finds nothing no one ever knows. She’s guilty it’s game over anyways.

[Matrix5]

M,

Your in denial my friend. Did you ever see The Godfather. Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer. If your so convinced it’s just a friendship then just accept it and stop bringing it up.

I hear you loud and clear. The problem is that 3 years ago when this friendship started, I was outright against it, even if it was platonic and just pure friendship. Don't ask me why I was against it, I just was. That led W to go behind my back because her belief was (and still is), that this is not medieval age, and she has a right to befriend and hang out with whomever she wants, man or woman. That I don't own her, and have no right to tell her who she can and cannot hang out with. Back then I was against it. The fact that the guy was also my co-worker didn't make it any better for me, that's for sure.

However, I have made a complete 180 since, and have realized that she is right. I don't own her, she's not on a leash, and has the right to talk to and hang out with whoever she wants. The problem was, that I basically blasted her and blew up 3 years ago when she suggested that, and so she decided to go underground with it. The way she saw it was that she had to right to see whoever she wanted, but didn't want me to go apeshit on her every time she wanted to talk to him or meet with him. That led her to talk to him and meet him occasionally in secret. That in turn, once I did some sniffing around, led to believe she was having a full blown affair with him BECAUSE she was hiding it from me, and it all turned out into this vicious cycle. She hid it because she was afraid I'd blow up, and I figured she's hiding it because she's up to something, or else why hide it in the first place...

Last year, I sat her down and explained to her that I've realized that she was right, and I had no say in who she can and cannot see. I gave her my word that I will no longer care and will support whatever she wants to do (so long of course as it's nothing inappropriate). She was relieved initially, but as time went by, and as I mentioned in the OP, I kept on slipping and mentioning his name from time to time, or alluding to the fact the two are having an affair, or else, why was everything done in secret? She said she kept on doing it behind my back even after I gave her my word, because she didn't feel I was sencere in my promise - merely because I kept on mentioning him from time to time, and accusing her of screwing around with him.

As for a PI, why would she ever have to know unless she was guilty? He finds nothing no one ever knows. She’s guilty it’s game over anyways.

Right, and that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid - the game over part. I figured I can always hire a PI and blow her story out (if there is one to blow). But I'm trying to save this marriage. The way I see it, hiring a PI is a nail in the coffin of this marriage (assuming she's up to something). And unfortunately due to several reasons (financial, kids, living place, etc.) a divorce is not something I want or can afford (both from a financial standpoint and because of a situation with the kids). And I don't want a divorce anyways, I'm trying to save the marriage. So given that for the time being, I'm 'stuck' in this situation, I figured why not try make things better. As it is there's plenty I need to fix about myself, regardless of whether I stay with the W, or end up living with another woman down the road. if I work on myself, GAL, and continue my 180 from the old shitty me, then I'm achieving 2 things: 1) there's a good chance she sees the new me and realizes I'm worth continued being married to, and we get this marriage back on track. 2) She moves on from me, but at least I use the time being, living with her, and using her as my guinea pig. - Sort of a simulator on how to act and behave towards a woman. The way I try to think of the whole current situation is that I'm telling myself she has moved on from me, and there's no hope to reconcile. I just use her now as my experiment for my next relationship should there be a need for one. If she sticks around and we turn this boat around, great. If she decides she has checked out, at least I'll be prepared with a better and improved version of me for the next woman.

[Matrix5]

Today while driving, she had mentioned that she had a conversation with a female friend of her who told her about all the male friends she has, and that her husband doesn't care that she hangs out with them. That he accepts it, and should he stop accepting it, he knows where the door is... When I agreed that her friend should have the right to hang out with them, so long as there's nothing funny going on, my wife shook her head and took it as an insult against her, as I was alluding again that she was up to something not kosher.

I asked her one more time to be open about it. That I promised her last year that I no longer care if she hangs out or talks to him, just be open about it. Let me know if she goes out to meet him, tell me. I asked her to give me a shot and try it out to see the response she gets from me.... time will tell, she seemed hesitant... she kept on saying that it doesn't matter because she doesn't see or talk to him anymore (lie) because I scared both of them. Of course I wanted to call her out on her lie, but I bit my tongue. Instead I said, "ok, in the case you choose to renew your friendship, I'm ok with it, just be open and forthcoming with me. She was hesitant, kept on saying they don't meet or talk anymore, and that it's hard for her to just take my word for it, because I've promised to be ok about it in the past, and yet kept on accusing her of doing different things with him behind my back.