Thank you, Gordie. Appreciate your kind words. What you have been able to do with your situation has been an inspiration to me. I already contacted a lawyer because my WAW filed for divorce. I am hoping and praying that she drops the filing. Since she filed about 45 days ago, I've heard nothing from her, other than scheduling visitation for the current month ahead. The good news is her sibling lets me stay over when we are not nesting; I guess if she really wanted me out of her life, she would not want me staying with her family, which makes me think she is on the fence. Any additional words of advice or any questions I have not answered, please let me know. Thank you.
Seems like current set up is not fair and she is dictating everything
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I told my attorney not to do anything unless she is contacted by WAW attorney. Let her push this. I pay the state required child support, no more than minimum after she filed. My attorney agrees. We have a schedule in principle for now through December this year, which is two weekends per month and days in between for afternoons. It works well given I have a custody schedule already in place from previous marriage for my eldest and my existing travel schedule. We nest in the house, but it was her home before the wedding, so it is not considered community property. What do you think is not fair and where do you seeing me getting more balls? And how would you recommend I cope thinking of a WAW hooking up with other men at parties when she goes away? The thought of it makes me sick to my stomach. Appreciate your advice.
As hard as it may be, don’t think of it. Just picture her out bowling. After all, you really don’t know. Talk to your lawyer about the house. If there is a mortgage and community funds were used to pay that or taxes, you may get some kind of offset somewhere else for the payments made or the appreciation over the life of the marriage..
Oneart is right first step is not to think about it
Get preoccupied with other things GAL
You want to be so into your love affair with life
That you do not have time to think about her
This takes time so you fake it until you make it no shortcuts
I thought the custody setup was unfair because I thought you said it was not
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Thank you, Gordie and OneArt. I have read that until your MLC WAW hits rock bottom or thinks you have really moved on, they will continue to believe that you will always be second fiddle. Are there specific actions or things you would do that show the WAW you are moving on? I also think at times the longer we are separated, which is now close to longer than we have been married, it will make it much harder for the WAW to think we can ever return to loving each other again/reconciling, so she gives up. WAW also never really told me why she wanted a divorce. The reason keeps changing and the last time we talked about this; a year ago, it was over a trivial matter. When she picks fights or pushes my buttons, is it MLC behavior to do this to try to justify leaving the marriage?
I am sorry for the situation you find yourself in, it is confusing and convoluted for sure. I just caught up on your threads, nice to see how far you have come.
Originally Posted by black8
Do you have any advice on my kids? My eldest are in love with her and their siblings and I do not want them exposed to this until it is absolutely necessary. For now, I have been lying and saying them and I spend weekends with their half siblings because we are trying to get the youngest to not be so attached to her. That lie only goes so long.
I have a few questions and facts I just want to confirm. Btw including a signature line with a quick summary is pretty helpful to others.
Your eldest are the daughter and son from previous marriage (11 and 9 I think), and their siblings are the S5 and D1 from W and you.
D11 and S9 love W, S5 and D1. That’s all good, kids from first family love kids and stepmom from second family.
You do not want to expose or discuss “it” until absolutely necessary with D11 and S9. Lying to “them” (D11 & S9). The lie is that you spend the weekends with S5 & D1 because “we” (not sure who we is, all that is left is W and you) do not want D1 attached to “her” (I think you mean W).
What do you see as “it”? What don’t you want to expose to D11 and S9? The living situation, the custody arrangements?
I would love to offer some advice or suggestions, but I do have too many assumptions here.
I am not trying to be picky. I found being accurate with details and thoughts, will allow you to be accurate in feelings and actions. This leads into seeing your situation accurately which leads to detachment. I did post about it earlier if you wish to look it up, it may help.
A few general ideas and beliefs I have which pertain to this.
Do not hide this from the children, they know more than you may think they do. They need guidance from you, give it to them in an age appropriate manner.
This MLC has been going on for a year. I think absolutely necessary is looming, maybe even passed.
Don’t lie. Be honest (age appropriately) with them. They deserve it. You are their role model, be a good one.
Originally Posted by black8
And how would you recommend I cope thinking of a WAW hooking up with other men at parties when she goes away? The thought of it makes me sick to my stomach. Appreciate your advice.
Sorry about this man, I understand the terrible feelings.
Advice on coping. This might seem hash, I am trying to be gentle.
First off your question “... how would you recommend I cope thinking of a WAW hooking up with other men ...”.
Be accurate! You are putting too much distance between you, your feelings, your thoughts, and your reality. You don’t need advice for your thinking about a WAW hooking up. Do not use thinking or a WAW. You need to see it like “how would you recommend I deal with my wife hooking up with other men”.
Do you know if she has, or is having an affair? If she is, don’t worry you can deal with that. If she isn’t, don’t worry, just be prepared, so many spouses have affairs. Remember affairs don’t mean a damn thing. In fact most MLCer will have an affair, they are in pain and looking for a quick fix. Nothing to do with you.
So recommendations, you can and should GAL, focus on life, and stay occupied until you have healed. Eventually, once healed, you will have to deal with it.
Or, you can deal with, and face it now. If she is having an A, this would be my recommendation. My W announced her A to me, kids, family, friends, townsfolk, etc.. I had to face it. Come to think of it, if your W isn’t having an A, it is probably easier and I would even more recommend this way.
The underlying truth of the two recommendations is that they are the same thing, it is just the mindset you approach it with.
Either way you will focus on you and kids, GAL, work on detaching, and such. Your subconscious mind is going to be thinking about this, it is up to you on how you can make finding acceptance easier. What are you consciously going to do.
When I was in the first months of being an LBS, and a total mess, a work freind of mine came and talked to me. He told me about his wife who had left him for the local drug dealer, they did get back together by the way. When he was at the beginning and a mess he saw a psychiatrist who told him “There are two types of men. Those who can accept that their wife had another man and those that can’t. If you really can’t then move on.”
You have to come to terms with this, no matter what, especially if you are standing.
This is big stuff b8. Not easy for me to say to you, and not easy for you to hear.
I hope you see the compassion within the hashness of accurate illumination.
From what I have read from you so far I think you can deal with it. All that means is admitting that you could (with some work) eventually accept what she has done. A realization that you are not one of the men who cannot accept.
That’s it, then continue to walk along your path, loving your beautiful children and continuing to heal.
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
If this is MLC, as opposed to a WAW, the timelines are very different. Please confirm this yourself by reading Michelle's book and sandi's wisdom, but I think with a WAW there is a short window of time in which they potentially come back (I think the common wisdom with a WAH is that it is a longer period). Sometimes they see the changes and come back. But, often, once the WAW makes up her mind. She is gone.
With MLC, the timelines are very, very long. Someone out there published a list of "returns" from anecdotal evidence on multiple support sites. Apparently an early time for coming back was 18 mos from BD and a longer time of 3-4 years, with the average in the 2-3 range. Take that for what it is: my recollection of an unscientific analysis of self-reported data, with no control or verification. On various MLC sites, there are much later returners. You are early days. Don't despair. But be realistic.
My belief, and mine only. Why do they come back? They haven't found anything better and they are tired of looking or afraid the LBS will move on. Is there a fog, a tunnel, a hormonal stage? I don't know. Mine is the opposite of who he was to me for sure. But did I see the real him or the him he is now the real him? No idea.
Her rock bottom is hers. You are not going to change it for the better. Job has been around a long time and she has said some of them bounce down there and bounce up and down and on and on. Forget about rock bottom.
How can you show her that you have moved on? Move on. She will only believe it when it is genuine. It is hard to fake indifference (at least for me). Now that I've reached indifference, I'm pretty sure mine gets that I am there.
Ways to move on:
1. Stop thinking about what she is doing and don't snoop.
2. As I think DnJ said, accept that she has had one or more affairs and really think about what that means. I saw a divorce lawyer many years ago. She was da bomb. I said he assures me it is an emotional affair. She said tell yourself it is a physical affair so when you find out it was, you don't have to hurt any more. (Another fun comment she made: first wives seldom travel with their husbands, second wives always do). They will trickle truth you to death. Accept the very worst you can imagine, and if you can live with that, you will be mentally tougher for the long haul.
3. When you cry and break down, try not to let the kids see it. I do it still in the shower and in my car when alone. Try to keep them out of this as much as possible, but please don't lie to them. When they learn the truth, and they will, you don't need to be another adult who betrayed them. But also, as DnJ said, be age appropriate and share only what they have a need to know (either because it is affecting their living situation in some way, or they are asking direct questions).
4. Become the person you were at the beginning. The person she was attracted to (but a grown up version). The person only a fool would leave.
5. Go out and meet new people and do new things. The guys can correct me because they see it too. Most of the men on these boards say they are going to stand by the marriage, etc. And most, it seems in a year, are moving on to dating. We have a few exceptions here, but in general men seem to move on faster. But, remember, when you date doesn't control your healing. If you don't heal completely before you move on, you'll be in the same place later making the same mistakes. The healing is going to come either way. The only question is how much more destruction will happen before it does.
6. Don't stand in her way. If she wants a divorce, let her get it. Don't help her, but don't stall or look like you are being difficult. That screams attachment and she will feel pressure and want nothing to do but complete it.
7. Don't talk to her friends and family or your common friends. If you do eventually reconcile, every one of those people will know what happened and it will be harder on all of you. Or, they'll just tell her everything you said and that will get in the way of a reconciliation.
8. Choose your battles. Fight for only what you really care about. Don't spend money fighting over property that can be replaced for less than the cost of the fight. When dealing with custody, what are the dealbreakers. Focus on those. Let the other stuff go. With mine, I knew I could say he could see the kids whenever he wanted because I knew he wouldn't do it. But, I made it clear they were not going to the depressing place he lives where his mistresses could accidentally pop over.
9. Don't be petty over child support. That is for the kids. Some men become obsessed about what she is doing with the money, convinced that every dollar she spends is one they provided. Courts don't care. You don't get to decide that. Don't withhold child support if she is withholding the kids. Go to court. If you hold back the money, you harm your own position and look bad to the court. Those are independent obligations.
10. Do not put the kids in the middle--ever. Those are her kids (even the step ones, particularly if you want to reunite) and they will love her even if she is imperfect and blows up the family. Do not use them as messengers. Do not grill them about what she is up to (they usually tell you spontaneously in the days following a visit--just nod or say interesting or whatever).
11. Document everything. Save every email, text, etc. Never write anything you don't want the kids, the judge or your mother to see. Everything is an exhibit and electronic data is so trackable it is scary. Nothing is ever erased. Keep a visitation log. If she doesn't let you have it when ordered, or is late or gives you grief, or asks you to cover for her, keep track of it all. You never know when you will need it. Assume she is doing the same and act accordingly.
12. I didn't do well with this one. Even though times are hard, and you are stressed and down, kids need to have fun and do things. Live life. Let them see you living life. How great if she asks them what you are doing and they recount all the fun times they had, all the fun places they went, all the nice people they met (but no SOs--you don't want a lot of people coming into their lives, them attaching, feeling loss, etc.).
13. Live for you. Rediscover your passions. Work on your clothes, your hairstyle, your weight, whatever. If you have bad habits, try to get rid of them. Have fun. Open yourself up. Try to grow as a person and experience things you were afraid to do before.
14. Think about your contributions to the breakdown of the marriage and be honest with yourself about them, but keep it to yourself. If you start apologizing and fessing up, she'll just use it against you. No begging, pleading, etc. in any form. But don't be maudlin about them. There is a time to gripe, then a time to move on.
15. Don't stalk her. Ever. Stay away from her house unless she invites you over or is expecting a drop off/pick up.
16. If she temp checks or anchor checks, take it for what it is. Don't ride every high and low. Don't go buying a new house, car, etc. The longer she thinks you are safely on the hook, the longer she knows she can be out there partying.
17. Many do an early return, stay for a bit, then take off again. Mine did this, many times. Keep your expectations very low until she proves to you through prolonged, persistent actions (never words) that she is back. If you don't feel like she is out, don't rush it. Be mysterious and a little hard to get. Beware of the pursuer/distancer dance and try to break those patterns.
18. Expect drastic changes in her lifestyle. Dress, make up, hair, partying, contact, friends, addictions, etc. Don't comment on them. You are not her mother.
19. Don't manufacture reasons to contact her, when she sees you anchor checking her she will know you have not moved on. There are usually very few emergencies. Mail can be forwarded. Look into a parenting app for communication. Limit it to business: kids, property, divorce (unless you can afford to run everything through lawyers).
20. Understand that when you do contact her, even if legitimate, she will probably think you are pursuing her and she will feel pressure. That will make it longer until she senses that you have moved on.
21. Be detached, but not cold or non-communicative. Mirror her actions. If she is friendly, be friendly. If she is not talking, you do the same.
DnJ, Thank you very much for the feedback and advice. My apologies for the way I have been explaining things.
Originally Posted by DnJ
What do you see as “it”? What don’t you want to expose to D11 and S9? The living situation, the custody arrangements?
The "it" is the fact that my wife said and wrote that she wants a divorce and has filed. I do not want to tell my eldest kids this because: 1) things could change and wife could come back, which makes it even harder to explain the back and forth of my wife and my relationship; 2) they see my wife physically maybe 5 times per year because they live in a different state than my wife, and when I say them 95% of the time my wife does not join me; 3) my ex would get wind of this and cause havoc on me and probably file a modification of custody and claim my eldest need counseling, etc. #3 is a mess I really do not need right now, when my wife and I are not divorced yet. I hope this makes sense. And thank you.
