Brave Little Gerda Trods On -- My Faith Journey

[DnJ]

Good morning Gerda

Sounds like a tough night.

I will post my ideas to you. I have about a 14 hour day to get through first. Darn work. It really crimps my lifestyle. Ha ha.

I am glad you find some value from my input.

I like discussing and exchanging ideas with you, it’s what friends do. And Gerda we are friends.

(((Gerda)))

Hang in there

[job]

Gerda,

Are you and your children in counseling or some type of support group? I'm not asking this to offend you, but the impression that I am getting is that you and your children need someone to talk to outside of the family circle. Your son may need to talk to someone "safe" other than you.

I'm very concerned about you and your son. You haven't mentioned too much about your daughter and her behavior in all of this.

[Gerda]

Thank you, DnJ! And thanks for leaving a pre-response to your response, you knew I would wake up and check!

Right now I feel that it would be better for the kids if H left for a while. I realized last night how the agony of living with a depressed person is of course agony for them too.

But he has no money to leave and nowhere to go. The only way he can leave is if we split assets and I sell the house and give him his equity. I don't want to do this but even if I decided I have to do it for my children to have peace, it would take many many months to do it. I would never get approved for an apartment to rent because my income is so low, I couldn't even find a place myself to live with them in the meantime. So I keep thinking that this knot is so hard to untie that only God can do it.

If only my H could see that he has to put on a brave face for the kids, even if he hates his life. I am wondering if I should try to tell him this. I think it would have to be an e-mail. And maybe better in writing in case of D.

Thanks again for the words and the affirmation of friendship. Really the friendship, and the affirmation of it -- that's the most important thing any of us can offer here, but we don't always think to say that in our rush to advise each other on paths out of suffering.

I hope you have a FRUITFUL workday too.

[job]

Gerda,

If you post a long drawn out posting to him, it will go right over his head and he will pick and choose the words from the posting that he wants to zero in on and will take offense. You want him to be receptive and willing to listen to what you have to say.

Let me ask you this....does he respond in a more positive way when you speak to him or in writing? Here's a thought, why not sit down with him over a cup of coffee or tea or whatever and just talk to him about the children and how they are doing? He might be more apt to listen if you talk about them. As him his thoughts on how best to deal with any issues with the children at this time. One word of caution, use the "I" word and not the "you" word. If you use the "you" word, he will automatically put up his walls and think you are pointing fingers at him.

Just my two cents.

[Gerda]

Thank you, Job, for weighing in. I so appreciate it!

You are talking about posting to my H? You mean e-mailing?

I have become so afraid of conversations with him, that your idea gives me a bit of dread. But also the thing is that about the children my H is equally out of his mind. He has crazy ideas and theories about what they are thinking and what is good for them, most of which revolve around me doing everything wrong and controlling everything and running the household poorly, etc. So a conversation will just be more of that and I don't know how useful that is.

But as you say, it's a rock and a hard place.

Maybe if my S really does still want me to tell my H how he feels, i can just say that as succinctly as possible and without any recommendations and let him realize it or not realize it. I know that if he could realize what he is doing to us, I wouldn't have to be on this board to begin with!

[job]

Yes, I mean an email.

I know you dread speaking to him, so try writing an email, but try to refrain as much as possible using the word "you". I have found that when you use the word "you", they get bent out of shape and very defensive. If you can keep the email general and not pointed, he may just get it. Also, keep it short because they can't handle a lengthy one.

If you want to draft something up and post a general response and send it via the report button, I would be happy to review it and give you generalized comments here...

[DnJ]

Hello Gerda

How are you and kids doing today? Have thing settled a bit?

In my opinion children need expectations, something to achieve, something that lets them know they are on the correct path. When expectations are meet there should be praise. To go along with this, defiant behaviour and such needs effective consequences to provide the required guidance to help them find their way back to the right path.

Stability and consistency is a must from their parent(s). If the rules or expectations keep changing every couple of days how can they possible figure out what to do.

That is my general overview of parenting, so you know where I am coming from. You asked for some specific advice / suggestions, so I will give some.

You hit on a lot of topics, I’ll do my best.

He said to me he just feels so horrible for him because he is is always asking S to do things with him and S "just doesn't want to be part of the family right now," but he feels so bad because H has no life and no money and just hates his life.
...
Then S kept repeating the same thing about the reasons he feels so bad for H and THEN HE ASKED ME TO PLEASE TELL PAPA ALL THESE THINGS HE WAS SAYING. I started out with an explosive WHAT?! And then I tried again to actively listen. I said, "So you want me to tell Papa that. Why do you want me to tell Papa that?" But he couldn't really explain. He looked so lost and dreadful.

Son is sharing his feelings and you need to validate them. I understand how you feel son. I feel the same way towards Dad. These feelings are perfectly normal and you can always talk to me about anything.

Son kept repeating because he is not getting whatever it is he needs. He needs to know that Dad knows that son loves and cares about him. Son is guilty for feeling like he does. Reassure him that his feelings are normal.

He is also missing the love from his Dad. You can and need to fill in the gap. Be the best Mom possible. If you’re ok, he will be ok.

As for telling H. What son needs (IMO) is to be assured that Dad know about son’s feelings. So tell him that. Dad knows you love him. Don’t worry son, Dad is having trouble expressing his feelings, he is mixed up. Deep inside he still loves you.

I was so mad inside that my H gets all the sympathy from my kids and I am worked to the bone with no support of any kind but I tried to put on my listening hat and not say too much.

Ok understandable reaction. When you get mad like that, emotionally highjacked, it takes about 30 minutes to return to normal after you have worked through the mad feelings. During this time logical thought is out the window, things are not clear, and thinking is confused. Not the best time to make decisions, have discussions, and definitely not a good time to sign something.

Also when emotionally highjacked listening skills diminish greatly. A person just can’t listen to another point of view when they are all stirred up (just like our spouse’s). Best to just wait until you reset.

Step back for a while until “you” return. I get that you sometimes cannot physically step away, but limit conversing, things will be said that you would not say normally say.

I was so angry, said something really childish

Now don’t worry nothing is irreparable, just get up and dust yourself off. Next time look for when your emotions are getting the better of you - you know what to do.

This is an emotional time and it is difficult. A few weeks after BD I said something to S19 I deeply regret, the hurt that was in his eyes, it brings tears to my eyes thinking about it. I apologized and explained what I was feeling. He understood, but was still hurt. Lesson learn!

Remember a few weeks ago after my H basically BD's my S, S told me he never wanted to see his dad again and all that? Well I admit that I felt vindicated by that and was so happy to be "chosen," by my S...

And that tonight I felt this weird so of jealousy or fear that my S would go back into the Camp of Insanity with my H.

Vindication, happy to be chosen, and jealousy - yep all normal.

Of course you are happy that S wants to be with you, and it is very hard to watch S wanting to be with H. Son wants both of you, he really doesn’t want to choose. You being the sane and strong parent he will push against you not Dad. He can’t risk having Dad leave him, he knows you won’t leave. That is a very good thing, it still hurts like crazy.

This too will get better. Kids will eventually see who is really there for them and respond accordingly.

I want to do just what you say but I honestly don't know how half the time. I know it might be easier if H weren't here.

There may be more truth in that statement than you realize.

Honestly don’t know how half the time - So for half the time you do know how. Perception. Look at it differently.

It may indeed be easier if H weren’t there, and for what it is worth I am sure it would be. However he is there, it is more difficult, but got to keep moving.

My son wanted to talk and talk some more. Finally got him to sleep by reading to him. Talked about how terrible our life is. I told him that our life is pretty good except for the one thing. He asked if H would ever come out of it. I said I wasn't sure but that we could have a good life either way.

Things ended well for the night. Good job.

I did change your quote just a bit. What to do think? Focus on you and kids.

[DnJ]

Gerda

As for the masculine take on things. The man to man talk. The male point of view. The insight you seek.

I am not completely sure what you are looking for. I am thinking you are wondering what a male role model would say to son. I did write a letter for your son, as if I was sitting with him, giving him advice. I am open, honest, and sincere - I also do not know if I should post it. Another lesson from 50 years of life - think twice before you leap. Hense the delay in my response.

Before I stray too far into territory that can get people wound up. There are differences between men and women. However, people are not limited or defined by gender stereotypes or average behaviours, anyone can be more. I am not trying to offend anyone.

My aforementioned letter is basically an attempt at connection with son to illustrate where he is and to open his mind to the possible paths he can take. Some fatherly advice like I have given my boys and girl, and others.

I have a daughter without a Mother figure and I am not really sure who her female role model is, if she even has one. I think you see yourself in a similar situation.

So what I have learned. Fatherly advice, motherly advice - it is all parental advice. It may have a different slant from a man or women - the message can still be the same and just as well received.

I have much more I could share - imagine that. However I haven’t cut my grass in two weeks, and today it is not raining. So I best get to it.

[Gerda]

DnJ, I just wanted to tell you that I am reading your posts many times over. Things are so awful here and I am just shut up in my room crying my eyes out and trying to go over what you said in these two posts. So I logged back on to read them again. I am very low so I can't post right now but I wanted to thank you and let you know that a lonely lost Gerda is peering through the dark at the light you left on for me. Thank you.

[Gerda]

Job, I didn't see your post about counseling before. I will answer soon. Short answer is that we had a little bit of ineffective counseling. My son refuses to do much, he ran away from an evaluation even, but his new school has therapy built in. My D and I lean on the church and church community but my S won't go. We definitely need help but I can't get him to do it. But I will explain more later.