Let me ask you this: When you were emotionally shutdown, did you validate your wife's feelings? Did you intently listen to what she had to say without any distractions (no TV, phone, tablet, laptop).
No. I did not validate, nor intently listen. I was there but I wasn't. Took me a while to figure out how to process my pain and as she's said it seemed like I figured it out just as I lost her. Even though she told me weeks later. I have noticed that she picked up many of my bad habits and she sort of mirrors me in action.
the biggest thing standing out to me is that you are in the "friend zone". You need to read about NGS (Nice Guy Syndrome).
I don't have friends that are girls, never have. And if I did, I wouldn't be showering with them b/c that would lead to sex and thus we would not be friends.
Your wife wants your affection, but not all of it. Are you willing to have a partial relationship with her?
I will have to read that and I agree it feels more like a friendship than a relationship. I don't have girls that are friends for the same reason.
I do not understand the partial relationship though. I want a solid relationship, I want to learn from the mistakes and grow, preferably keeping my family intact with my wife.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Let me ask you this: When you were emotionally shutdown, did you validate your wife's feelings? Did you intently listen to what she had to say without any distractions (no TV, phone, tablet, laptop).
No. I did not validate, nor intently listen. I was there but I wasn't. Took me a while to figure out how to process my pain and as she's said it seemed like I figured it out just as I lost her. Even though she told me weeks later. I have noticed that she picked up many of my bad habits and she sort of mirrors me in action.
please don't miss the point! The point is that detachment doesn't equate to being unplugged, unavailable, and checked out!
You can be detached and still listen. Detached and still validate.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Down, very interesting. I'm having trouble getting a read on your sitch, it could be like Steve says that she is in an A and doing a bunch of cake-eating, but it could also be that she's tentatively seeing where this goes since you've managed to do 180s on your bad behaviors. One thing I will say is recon usually doesn't happen like a bolt out out the blue, it's usually a series of baby steps and it seems like you are seeing baby steps. It sounds like the two big things missing right now are sex and a commitment from her to work on things. She's warming up to you, but not ready for those yet. One thing about 180's is she will think you are doing them as tricks to get her back, so it's important to show her consistent 180's over a long period of time. So just keep doing what you're doing. Do not bring up M talks, now isn't the time. She's warming up because you've taken the pressure off, so the last thing you want to do is apply pressure. Stay the course!
I wish I could insert foot into mouth. She's stay-at-home mom and I work from home. I've been doing soo good avoiding talking about R, but it's like she traps me into it. I've went almost 2 weeks, without mentioning anything and then earlier, she got me talking about things and WHAM! We didn't really talk about continuing R, but about what I had done wrong and I acknowledged I know what I did wrong... but I did screw up and tell her that I did still want her. I didn't even want to talk about it, but it just happened. Because it's been less emotionally draining to avoid talking about it and I have been growing deeper feelings getting to re-know my wife, because we have opened up our friendship.
She did say, aside from me shutting down and disconnecting, she felt I was unhappy and did not love her. Every time, we do talk, she lets me out about what ate her up. For example a couple of months ago, she let me know she felt like a single mom doing everything on her own. I just wasn't there... aside from earning the money and buying her things, I really wasn't there.
All of that got brought up after she had a lady over here for a boudoir photo shoot, and I got a little upset because she lent the lady an old pair of lingerie I bought her. Then, when I mentioned something about a mask we just recently purchased to do another photo shoot of my W, she got really possessive saying she wouldn't let anyone use it because it was OURS.
As far as the A... Feb. to July she was in an EA. I know that much for sure. I think the doors opened for this because her father past in December, and I wasn't really emotionally available to console her.
In the middle of July, she stopped being on her phone as frequently. This is when I noticed her change towards me. The last week of July, she started leaving her phone laying around and would put it up at night to hang out. On August 4th, we were out of town, spent 15 hours in the car together between the 3rd and 4th, and she said she wasn't in love with anyone anymore, but did miss him and that it happened by accident, she wasn't out to hurt me or wreck our marriage. Since she has been actively letting me know about EVERYTHING she does on her phone, sometimes I am not even paying any attention to her, and she starts informing me about things or even times when I do not even know she's on her phone.
The trip was on the more intimate side for us, but definitely not romantically. She felt really forced when she said she didn't want to try or for it to work out. She says, she's only here because its easier for the kids and her... and to take care of me during my upcoming surgeries that will result in a 6 month to 1 year recovery time. She has never openly talked about divorce, but she has said she would remain married so it would "be easier".
She has the option of not being here and getting a job, but she stays because it's "easier" for the kids. Hell, we still go to my parents house every Friday and we have invited her parents over twice in the past month (we never had them over, except on the occasions we would have a party... not often.) But they were here last night, and she extended the invite to make it a regular Monday night deal. Kind of like her photography business, she has been actively entrenching me further into it, having me help more and more.
Just a two weeks ago, before school started, she put transfer papers in to have the oldest come to the school closet to us, which is further away if she were to go live with her mother and it would be harder on her if she moved out because rent is higher on this side of town. She's also already planning on our youngest to go to the daycare where, ironically, I went 30 years ago and that's two years away for him to enroll in VPK.
Sex and commitment are definitely missing... but on the sex front, she does still care if I am taken care of, just not me taking care of her. However, as a favor return for her helping me with my leg, I have been massaging her legs and she has been accepting or in some sense pushing for things to get closer, but just to the point where she is aroused and if it goes too far, she pushes herself to go to sleep. We always had a fantastic sex life, it did for a short time get "planned" because we have four children and one slept in the bed until more or less 3 months ago.
I do have patience and I am up for the long haul, but I am very confused.
If W is consistently seeking approval or asking if she is doing things the right way... would this be calling for a need to validate? Even though she is not talking about her feelings directly. It caught my attention today and last night, that she has been like walking on egg shells so to speak around me, asking if she does things the right way.
Or just a little bit ago, she was talking to our D4 and asked if D4 was watching TV, if not, she wanted to change the program because she "needs to get off her phone", then she prompted this by saying that she's on her phone too much, which is odd for her to say.
Since I have a little more time to type as she is away currently.
A little more background on her. She has been emotionally beat down by pretty much everyone that has been in her life. For example, when her mother first found out that she wanted to leave, W's mother beat her down pretty good. We have two children together, S2 and D4 and then there are two step D's, 7 and 10. She didn't have custody of her two girls when I met her. Her family was really close with her ex even though he had physically and verbally abused her and the oldest (which is not his either.) and she was emotionally abused in previous relationships. She had little confidence and opened up really fast to me.
I have always treated her with respect, never laid a hand on her or verbally abused her. I did NAG her a little bit about her cleanliness. Even after she said she wanted to leave, I have been very supportive and nice.
D85, i am seeing some red flags here. I have a big problem with people that have had issues with "pretty much everyone". You see, there is one common denominator in all of that. I am sure that if she were to move on to another relationship that she would tell him you emotionally beat her down over her cleanliness. (actually she'd leave out the reason and just accuse you of being emotionally abusive).
Also, she had D10 and D7, but didn't have custody? so the verbally and physically abusive ex had custody of D10 even though he's not her real father? And her family supported a verbal and physical abuser over her?
I am sure you believe all of this. I am sure you are convinced of all of this. But step back for moment and read what you wrote, and try to be objective and forget everything you think you know. And see if you can see what someone on the outside looking in would see.
- She's always the victim. - She had a D with someone that (it sounds like) isn't even in her or the D's life. - Her ex has custody of her kids. - Even though he was physically and verbally abusive. - Even though courts look for any reason to keep kids with the mother, and physical abuse is a slam dunk. - Her family sided with her ex even though he was physically and verbally abusive. - Despite all this abuse she opened up to you immediately and was vulnerable to you. (Not typical of people that ar abused.)
Down85, see how that looks?
And then you said this:
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I started putting the pieces together and found out that she had an emotional affair. This lead to a fight and she ended up walking out on our 4 children and me in the middle of the night. She was gone for a month and I found out that she had done some fooling around.
Hmmm, suddenly she is walking out again (victim mentality) even though she had an EA and fooled around.
Then you said this:
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It hurt but I can forgive her. I thought I couldn't but I can. I know I played a role in this.
"I know I played a role in this."
So being a less than perfect husband justifies an EA, fooling around, and walking out on her family? Do you see the pattern here?
Also this:
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But she's said she would rather give me custody of the children so they are in a stable home.
Hmmm, now I think the
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She didn't have custody of her two girls when I met her. Her family was really close with her ex even though he had physically and verbally abused her and the oldest (which is not his either.) and she was emotionally abused in previous relationships.
Down85, now either something has gotten lost in translation, or you have your eyes wide shut.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
At the end of the day, yeah I only have to go by what she has said, what I've learned, and what I've seen. I haven't seen any reason to doubt her because everything from before did add up. But now talking about it, it does bring patterns out and I'm getting another's perspective.
She lost custody to her mother. Her family had "forgiven" her ex because they believe in a "blended" family. And the oldest D came from a one night stand as a young adult.
No, my less than perfect husbandness does not justify her going outside of the relationship. I am making an excuse and trying to justify it to feel better and still accept my wife. She should have been there for me, I needed her, but I couldn't figure things out.
