Thanks Cdn. I appreciate you reading my sitch. I had been doing so well, keeping calm, not rising to her antics, but that low blow with telling the kids just totally got me. She is bang out of line. I just don’t know if I can even be with someone like this anymore. I need to be strong for my children and detach so her words and actions do not affect me. That is where I need to get to. W went out last night and has not returned this morning. She is taking kids to her sisters tonight which I am not happy about but I guess I have not choice on that.
I’m finding DB full of difficult contradictions; GAL but be there for the kids (very hard when they are so young). Don’t engage in any R, M, D talks but being constantly challenged on it by W. Detach and do 180’s when what I’m being accused of is procrastinating, lack of empathy, not being romantic, ignoring messsges etc. Doing 180s here would be the opposite of detach! So difficult.
I will not divorce her. I’m going to make her do the dirty work. Any advice welcome.
uk, we all struggle with these things. But the contradiction isn't with DBing. It is with your WAW. She wants a D, but wants you to be romantic? She wants space but accuses you of ignoring messages?
Here is the thing, even if you did everything perfect, from this point forward, it wouldn't be good enough for you WAW. You are still focused on her. BELIEVE nothing she says.
GAL is not in contradiction with young kids. Either they are with you and you are engaged with them, or they are with her. When they are with her you are busy. You are occupied. When you are around she is finding time to go out, correct? Why can't you also go out when she is around? Also they have these things called babysitters in case your goings out conflict.
Empathy? Yes you should be empathetic. That is what validation is for! Read that thread. Over and over again. Become a validation master! Note: validation also works in other relationships. I have been using validation at work. It is a great technique!
Never ignore messages. But also, do not response to messages that do not require a response. See the difference? If she asks a question, answer it. IN AS FEW WORDS AS YOU CAN. Yes or no answers should be answered with a yes or no. All other questions should be answered directly in as few words as possible.
My understanding is that your W is still in an active A (sorry if I am misremembering). So why would you care about her complaints??! She is sleeping with someone else but is complaining you aren't being romantic? That you are procrastinating? That you are unempathetic? And that you ignore messages? Yeah, no of things compare with getting naked and allowing another man to use her body sexually. See how ridiculous that sounds!?
DBing isn't contradictory. It may contradict with what your instincts are telling you. Your instincts are wrong and will end up getting you to where you don't want to go. DBing is guaranteed. Maybe not guaranteed to save your MR, but it is guaranteed to save you from yourself!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I’m finding DB full of difficult contradictions; GAL but be there for the kids (very hard when they are so young). Don’t engage in any R, M, D talks but being constantly challenged on it by W. Detach and do 180’s when what I’m being accused of is procrastinating, lack of empathy, not being romantic, ignoring messsges etc. Doing 180s here would be the opposite of detach! So difficult.
I will not divorce her. I’m going to make her do the dirty work. Any advice welcome.
Great comments from Steve. I'll add a few as well:
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GAL but be there for the kids
GAL stands for "get a life". Too many people here think it stands for "go to bars and drink". If you have small kids then INVOLVE them in your GAL activities. Take them to the zoo, go to the park and fly kites, go to the museum, build something with them, plant some flowers, go for a walk. Yes you should have some GAL activities that involve hanging out with adults as well, but there is no contradiction in involving kids with GAL. The purpose of GAL is to get you busy, give your W time and space, and take your mind off your sitch.
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Don’t engage in any R, M, D talks but being constantly challenged on it by W
This is a common misinterpretation. DB'ing isn't to not "engage" in those talks, it is to not "initiate" those talks. If your W brings it up then that's fine, but your job isn't to fight/ argue/ negotiate/ etc. it's to LISTEN and VALIDATE. But don't ever bring it up yourself.
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Detach and do 180’s when what I’m being accused of is procrastinating, lack of empathy, not being romantic, ignoring messsges etc. Doing 180s here would be the opposite of detach!
Again this is a common misunderstanding with new DB'ers but detaching does NOT mean to be cold and indifferent. Read Sandi's rules, they are all about LOVINGLY detaching. Detaching is simply giving your W time and space and focusing your energies elsewhere on you and your kids. It's about not pursuing her. It's about respecting her wish to be separate from you. Don't procrastinate if you normally do, by all means show empathy (that is what validation is all about), don't ignore her messages. As far as being romantic, well yeah that one is going to have to wait until way down the road. But those other things you can still do 180's on.
Great points, great clarification. Thanks guys. However, without trying to sound like I’m making excuses, I already do lots of stuff with the kids when I have them and always have. But W is constantly moving goal posts and pulling the rug from under me with her own plans. For example, yesterday I got kids all bathed and ready for a day out at mini golf. Kids were excited. W comes back from her sisters where she had been overnight and suddenly my D doesn’t want to go golf, she wants to be with mummy. W is calling shots on when she is going to be there and when she isn’t. Massive cake eating. If I resist it causes a fight. I’ve avoided the babysit thing because I want to be with them. Maybe I’m enabling the cake eating by doing this?
Being with them is good. Being with them without limits is a problem. Make plans for the next time she is scheduled to have them, have a babysitter as a back up plan. That way when she changes plans you still have GAL activity. Adjust to her but don't give up what you want or need to do it. Adapt or die.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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Good points by the above posters. Much of what we think are contradictions in DB end up being ourselves resisting the ideas due to fear. Fear of losing our identity we meshed too much into our W's, fear of the future, fear of the unknown. Its also good to point out what we read on the forums doesn't always line up with what the coaches recommend and there isn't always one method for every situation. Some techniques will work better for some people.
Eventually you will come to a point where you redefine what DB means to you. For me it didn't turn into saving my M and looking back on it I wouldn't want it now anyway. It turned into finding myself and I'm more than OK with that now. Sure, it saddens me my kids are forced into a situation they cant control, but living in a broken family doesn't doom them. The best thing you can do to help them through this is become the best version of yourself you can be and make the right choices in terms of them with the things you can control, your side of the fence.
The hard pill we all have to swallow is nothing we do is guaranteed to save the M and family we always expected we would have. Your W determines where her life goes and you cant and shouldn't try to control that. You may have some influence applying the right techniques but that still wont guarantee anything. DB only fails if you fail to use it to remake a better version of yourself, that's what you have control over in the end.
As long as you two don't have a set schedule on who has kids and when this will keep being an issue. She will cake eat and come and go as she pleases and that type of structure/stability isn't the best for the kids anyway. My ex did the exact same thing, toward the end we had to make a rough schedule of who would have kids and when so each of us could get personal time. The limbo phase is strange transitional phase, you aren't divorced yet but aren't married either so you have to adjust how you two interact and parent the kids.
We started by putting in the main things such as appointments and work, around that we scheduled time with or without the kids in advance so it was known and the other could schedule also. Say I had plans to go to the zoo on Saturday with the kids, I would put it on the calendar and it was mostly a first come first serve case, within reason, for each week. There will be come conflict but do your best to be reasonable with her without being a doormat. You will have to have a discussion about this at some point to gain some structure to it all.
One last thought, in her eyes shes doing nothing wrong. You will see it as breaking apart the family and anything she does with the party life is madness and irresponsible. In her eyes shes said shes done and is now a single women, she can and will do whatever she wants. "its just a piece of paper" that ties you together now, as my ex claimed.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
However, without trying to sound like I’m making excuses, I already do lots of stuff with the kids when I have them and always have.
Good, as long as it doesn't involve W then you're already doing some GAL'ing. My point wasn't that you do or do not do it currently, I was just clarifying to you that it is not a contradiction, you can in fact GAL with your kids.
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But W is constantly moving goal posts and pulling the rug from under me with her own plans. For example, yesterday I got kids all bathed and ready for a day out at mini golf. Kids were excited. W comes back from her sisters where she had been overnight and suddenly my D doesn’t want to go golf, she wants to be with mummy. W is calling shots on when she is going to be there and when she isn’t. Massive cake eating. If I resist it causes a fight. I’ve avoided the babysit thing because I want to be with them. Maybe I’m enabling the cake eating by doing this?
I tried reading back to see if you two are separated and saw that you mentioned she wanted to file for legal S, but I couldn't figure out if you're still living together right now? If so then yeah that makes the above situation a tough one because you can't control when your W comes and goes and how your kids will react. In the above example I wouldn't push your D to go, if she doesn't want to then just tell her that it's her decision to make, but that you and S are going anyway. I don't think you're really doing anything to enable your W's cake-eating in this example, it was just a case of bad timing.
Just to clarify, we are still in house together, major building works going on so house is a mess, bedrooms all over the place. It has made the situation even harder. W swans in and out as her mood takes her. This is my predicament. I think given what you said AStander, I did the right thing. I did exactly as you suggested above.
Some great advice and encouragement from everyone here. It is appreciated very much.
