making it about me...

[FaceMan]

I think how you feel is perfectly normal.

Why can she drop me so easily? Why am I an after thought? Negative thoughts, feelings, getting into a downward spiral.

I feel and have felt exactly the same. I tell myself the feelings will pass. Invariably they do; sometimes it takes a while, sometimes I need to distract myself with something. Other times just going for a walk or phoning a friend.

I share your analysis of everything too; I don't think you are ever going to find reason or logic in their behaviour. Its illogical, irrational and doesn't make any sense. Trying to figure it out will send you into the depths of despair. I'm still there in some ways. I try not to blame myself, which is not easy.

They are in a lost and confused world, void of all emotion. Its not you.

[sjohns6]

Thanks FM. It seems that we all have a lot in common, which makes sense since it takes a certain type of person to want to stand for their marriage to the degree that they end up on a forum like this. Its good to be among friends!!

I need some help from you guys in setting a boundary. The kids have been with me most of the time since W moved out. The arrangement we came up with was 50/50, week on week off. They still have mostly been with me. The problem I am having (and please let me know if I'm making too big of a deal with this) is that most of the kid scheduling with playdates and such are typically done through moms. Moms like to contact other moms. So my wife gets contacted about scheduling the kids stuff. The problem I have is that she will get contacted about something taking place on one of my days. She may or may not have a back and forth with that mom, but she usually tells the kids about it, and then lets me know after the fact. So, she does tell me about it, but at the point she tells me I'm the last to know. I of course can say no, but at that point I am the bad guy saying no to the plans. This has not happened a bunch of times, but it has happened several times. Typically it isn't even something I would say no to, but these are my days and I want to be in control of the scheduling. I have mentioned it once in the past that I want her to tell me beforehand and I want to be asked, not told. She (at that time) said of course. Today a minor infraction of this request occurred and I want to make sure I handle my response correctly. I see this as a small infraction that I can use to firmly establish my boundary. Up to now I have, in my mind, taken the high road. I have not gotten angry and said things I regret...and I want to do that here too. I want to firmly establish my boundary while not engaging in a petty back and forth while still being respectful. So, that being said, here's how it went down.

W forwarded me an email from a parent with aback and forth discussing a sleepover. The back and forth was not with my wife but 2 other parents, W was just copied. W says "X's mom would like to have the girls over for a sleepover.
D will be with you, and she said she wants to go." This tells me that W already talked to D about it. Not too big of a deal, but this is not the first time she has discussed plans with D regarding days she is with me. This particular weekend is actually a busy one for us and the sleepover plans actually slightly conflict with plans we already have, but only in a minor way. The friend in question is actually already spending the night at our house the following day, along with one of the other girls invited. W does not know this of course, but that's one of the reasons she shouldn't be discussing plans with D before talking to me. I don't want to be the bad guy that says no to plans that have been made already. Anyways, I reply with "I guess if D wants to go. We kind of had plans to go to fencing Saturday morning and then I was going to take her to the back to school thing after. Please start running these things by me before mentioning them to the kids when its on my day." W then replies with "What’s wrong with mentioning the invite to the kids? I’m still giving you say over whether she can go or not and I forwarded you the email as soon as I got it. D probably already knew about it, she talks to that friend all the time."

So, that reply frustrated me. She is still GIVING ME say? On what D does on my day? So, I don't want to get in to a back and forth over WHY. I would like to set a firm boundary without being disrespectful and without actually getting in to explaining my position...unless you think that is warranted. Today is already the day that she is coming to get the kids for her week so I am already a little emotionally charged. I realize this is not a HUGE deal, but it is a boundary that I would like to set and I don't want to overreact because I'm already not wanting the kids to leave for a week.

So, how can I reply and get my point across while still taking the high road? I have ideas of how I should reply, but I was hoping for some opinions from you guys. If I need a 2x4, please give it. Thank you, friends.

[bttrfly]

Simple - "Please don't make plans for the children during my scheduled time. I know you mean well, but often these events conflict with other plans I've already committed us to. I appreciate you wanting to keep things as calm as possible for the kids, blah di blah blah validation"

hope that helps

[DnJ]

A few things come to mind.

Discuss your expectations with your children. (Btw - These are expectations you should have).

At some point D12 or S14 will be involved in the planning and will realize “I need to discuss this with my Dad” or mom if it is her week. In this paticular situation it sounds like W was not involved only copied and then forwarded the email on to you. What if the other mother had sent it directly to you? It is almost the same. What you are looking for is the kids to ask you permission for them to go.

So, discuss you expectations with your children. Tell them what you would like and how you guys can accomplish it. Children really do try to live up to their parent’s view of what is expected of them. They really do! It is just that they don’t know what is expected of them. So let them know. Let them be part of the creating of the process for your home.

Don’t worry about your children being too young. They are living at different houses with different rules each week. They know what is going on. They can handle this.

An example for this would be D12 and her friends are talking about the sleep over. D12 would have asked friend to have her mom give you a call. Better yet D12 would have just ask you directly. I don’t know if your kids have phone yet, if they do texting is what they will probably use. So in your discussion of how to make this work don’t ask for a phone call you won’t get one, ask for a text - and tell them you will answer it quickly.


I do see that W is causing you frustration. Well actually you are causing your frustration by expecting W to follow the arrangement for making plans, that she previously agreed too. Remember she is irrational.

Boundaries are something you put in place due to disrespectful and other damaging behaviour. You cannot control your spouse but you can take yourself out of the line of fire. Boundaries also need to be enforced, so do not do it lightly. (When you got four teenagers you figure this out pretty quick)

It needs to spelled out clearly. Here is a boundary template.

- - - -

Setting: When you _____, I feel ______, I want __________ .
Enforcing: if you ______ I will __________ .

e.g. When you cook your food and leave the dirty dishes in the sink, I feel like I'm living with a pig. I want you to clean up after yourself from now on and show some respect for my home. If you continue to behave like an animal I will move the dishes into your room so you will be more comfortable.

A boundary is USELESS unless you are prepared to ENFORCE it. You will be challenged and tested on every one of your boundaries. So make darned sure you can enforce them because if you don't you are wasting your breath and increasing the contempt she feels for you.

- - - -

Do you have any ideas for enforcement?

To me this looks like an opportunity to just figure out a different way to achieve your goal - to control your day.

If this is something worthy of a boundary to you, that is absolutely fine. It is your decision and I will support you.

Anyways, I reply with "I guess if D wants to go. We kind of had plans to go to fencing Saturday morning and then I was going to take her to the back to school thing after. Please start running these things by me before mentioning them to the kids when its on my day." W then replies with "What’s wrong with mentioning the invite to the kids? I’m still giving you say over whether she can go or not and I forwarded you the email as soon as I got it. D probably already knew about it, she talks to that friend all the time."

Good job not getting into a argument of why. That just would not have gone anywhere useful.

I understand you are try to be polite, respectful, and take the high road - that is all good. Just be more direct.

“I guess if D wants to go.” Do not guess. Say what you mean. “If D wants to go, it’s ok with me.”

If you do not know what you want to say wait a bit. A lack of planning on W’s part does not make it an emergency on your part. Btw, I totally get that sometimes there are time constraints with kids things, and we cannot gather thoughts fully on those occasions.

The next sentence - if you are ok with D going you need not include that sentence, it is just provoking a reaction.

If you are not giving permission that would be your lead sentence (again direct). Maybe like “D and I have plans to go fencing Saturday morning and then to the school thing after. D will be unable to attend the sleepover.”


After saying all that the email stated.

”X's mom would like to have the girls over for a sleepover. D will be with you, and she said she wants to go."

W is coming over to get the kids so sleepover is at least a week away. No big rush in answering W.

So my answer / advice,

Thank you for the information W, that sounds like a great idea. I will discuss it with D to see if we can fit it in to our plans. I will contact X’s mom to let her know.

[Kyh]

I guess this is something I’ve got lucky with. Ex always asks me ahead in these situations which works for me because most of the time it’s fine. If you get a chance try to meet some of the other moms or parents at school/kid functions. Most of the time I end up communicating w/them if it’s my week. If you don’t have a problem w/some play dates on your time then maybe show her by example when you have something on her time. My ex will often parrot back an action, the way I ask her for something, etc.

[Gerda]

I think you are being dragged into a gross back-and-forth that requires you to think too much about your W, what she is doing and thinking.

I like DnJ's final advice line at the end of his post, but I personally would go even simpler -- e.g., "Thanks for letting me know." And then talk to your kids about what works best for the weekend. I would worry more about them being able to feel normal and not have to worry about you and your W arguing over their sleepovers and boundaries over who gets to decide what when. They don't care who is right or what is fair or who seems like the bad guy. They will see through any of her madness, but it might not be on your timing. I posted about this idea in my thread just now -- my S has been raging at me for four years or more. Now that my H has tried to win him over by telling him he is leaving and saying stuff about me, the actual result was that my S woke up out of his rage and realized I am the lighthouse here and have always put him first. It didn't happen because I tried to do anything. It happened because I was patient and kept leaning on God, choosing my actions by what was part of the light, even when it meant being misunderstood. They will understand when the time is right.

[Gordie]

Sjohn6

I have faced this issue and w never did what I asked so I just started contacting the moms myself

Yes that was a little awkward at first but now I see all the social invitations first hand

All drama eliminated

[Vapo]

Gordie,

that is an awesome idea. I did this myself, and as you said, a little awkward at first, but nothing to it...

[roist]

Hi

A few remarks on.your boundary post.

You are right. Once a kid is informed it does change the situation. I can see why you are frustrated. Ask yourself why that is? Are you peeved she didn'ttespect your request or is there a deeper issue.It is important to know that.

In this case, if it suits you,i would contact directly the other mums and give your go aheadsnd offer to collect all three the next day for the second sleepover. Maybe you could give your email and ask to be contacted too for future eventsaas you organise her planning when with you. Don't expect others to remember/know your schedule.

As for W, tell her that informing D before you creates expectations in D that may not be realisable due to other plans. Ask her to respect your request for everyone's sake.

Never EVER tell w you kind of had plans." Kind of" comes across as you are willing to change plans to accommodate her. Small 2x4 but small things can make big differences

Best wishes

[sjohns6]

Thank you guys for the support and all the good advice. I should provide a little more background.

First, I actually have been communicating with the moms already. I've had to in order to plan playdates and whatnot. It was a little awkward at first, but not too bad as I have always been involved with stuff so I already know these moms...they just normally have dealt with W. Even the mom that was emailing W, i have been chatting with her all week trying to set up a sleepover for D's bday. So, got you on that one. In this case, even though the mom had been planning a separate event with me for the following day, it was W who she copied when planning the sleepover at her house.

As far as the kids and their expectations, they actually do really well with that. They see how their M does not include me on all the plans and how it backfires a little every once in a while because of it. Nothing major, just them seeing that I am out of the loop on something that I should be included on. The other day W said something to D about plans and Ds response was "you better call daddy and tell him about that". I have never told her to do anything like that, but she came to me and told me that evening that she said that to W. W did call me during the day and tell me about the event in question, but I didn't know at the time it was because D told her to. So, the kids are in the know and on their own accord are trying to keep W respectful of me. Love those little guys.

I do realize that I am being too polite and not direct enough. 2x4 accepted. That actually isn't hard to hear so that's barely even a 2x4...more like a wrist slap I'll keep working on that.

Kids do have phones so I'm sure that D probably already knew about the sleepover. It isn't really even about whether or not she already knew, its about W not interfering with the planning of things on my days. Again, point taken about being direct with the boundaries. Going forward I'll work on being more clear with my boundaries and consequences...and be ready to enforce them if broken.

I do realize that this was not too big of a deal. W got an email and forwarded it to me when she got it without approving any plans with the other moms. It just irked me that she talked to D about it before mentioning it to me. It has the possibility to set up expectations that I might have to break if it conflicts with existing scheduling.

So I did not respond immediately because I recognized that I may have been feeling overly emotional about something that just wasn't that important. Not that boundaries aren't important, but there are a lot of battles to choose in this journey and some of them just aren't important enough to care about. I wanted to wait and see how important this one was to me before responding. Turns out, it wasn't really that important to me once I calmed down.

What I decided was that no reply to W was necessary. I told her in my initial response what I wanted, which was for to run potential plans by me before sharing with D. She will either do that or she won't, I don't feel the need to explain myself. If she does something else in the future along these lines and I don't like it, then I can practice being more direct like you guys counselled me here. At this point I realize it just isn't a big enough deal to waste any more head space on.