Who would have ever thought that just mere 14 months after having the happiest day of my life and getting married to the man I love and adore... I would be looking for help and posting here.
I am opening this thread as I would welcome any advice and comments, as well as your own experiences and of course I will share mine. I must admit that even reading this forum gives me so much strength and realisation that I am not alone in this.
So I will start with a back up story. I met my future husband 3 years ago online ... since the day we met I found him very attractive and incredibly quickly we fell in love and I partly moved in while keeping my apartment. I am 34 now, and my husband is 61. I am aware of the age gap but it never really bothered me as he is very active and very young looking. It is his first and my second marriage. None of us have children even though I would very much like to have them. I communictaed my desires very clearly and he knew that it was one of the reasons why I want to be in the relationship and getting married. I did think it was strange that he has never been married before, apparently he cancelled the engagement in his 40ies. So we dated for about 9 months and I was gently started to talk about the future until the day he told me- "I don't see myself as a father." The next day I left even though I was hurt but it didn't want to waste more time. He did try text me and even wrote a handwritten letter asking to stay friends to which I didn't reply. And then some 6 months later he came back with a ring... much to my shock and surprise and he asked me to marry him and told me that he wants children. I don't know why he had such change in heart but he said that love is the most important thing and he didn't want to lose me...
Then one day around two months after we got married I didn't get pregnant and I felt quite upset about it and I didn't talk in the car for about 2 hours (I would put it down to PMS), he then all of the sudden thought that our relationship is bad and we have communication issues and we should postpone with having children... During this time also his business suffered although I have continued my work which I love. So our relationship has spiralled down ever since that car journey to which I have apologised... he stopped all intimacy and I just got more upset and I didn't hide it. We tried councelling (my initiative) which he hated. I have been crying, blaming, begging, pretending... and it has got just worse. Until I found about Last Resort Technique and this forum several months ago. I have had a few setbacks but now I have been on course with LRT and GAL for 2 weeks and I intend to continue it as long as it takes. it makes me feel more confident. Meanwhile H has withdrawn completely... he goes to bed only when I am asleep and wakes up before me. He doesn't kiss or hug me and we haven't had sex for about a year now. I have stopped all R talk and blaming and crying... now I am pretending that his moods don't affect me. I am also trying to stay at work as long as possible and going out with my girlfriends.
My only worry is that I might 'break' and go off these changes out of loneliness and frustration. I truly miss intimacy and I feel that this man is not the one I got married to. Maybe he is depressed because of his business and I am not sure how and if I should support him. Everything I have said before is like speaking to a wall.
I really want to save this marriage but I also want to feel loved not being with a grumpy husband...
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you so much for this. The most difficult part now is detaching and keeping cool about the situation with him. At the moment I am just trying to get out of the house as much as possible. It is something I haven't done before and a part of me worries that I might push him away by doing so. I am staying at work until about 6 pm today and then at 8 pm I am going out for a dinner with a friend. So I will be home for about an hour or so... in that hour I am pretending to be happy, confident and chatty. It is so difficult! But at least I am doing something entirely different than before... hpefully the results will come.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
So I went out with my girlfriend and cane back better the midnight and I got up earlier than he did.. We seem not talk at all as I don’t initiate conversation anymore and he just chooses to give me the silent treatment and disappear into another room to look at his laptop. It hurts! But not as much as it used to... I guess that’s a progress.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I was just thinking about the same as one f the posts here.. will I ever be loved again by my husband? We had such a wonderful start and we never had an argument before the wedding. Obviously my crying and blaming that he changed his mind about having children hasn't helped... but I can't help but wonder.. how long /if we will ever be happy again. I came home today after the meeting and trying to be smiling and fun but he was his usualdistant self. Now I escaped for a few hours outside the house so I don't need to feel frustrated and I can just relax. I miss him... I miss the man I though I married to and I miss the life I though we were going to have and we had...
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Oh my goodness... I screwed up, again!!! We went put to a sporting event and I ended up being horrible to him. I even don’t know why ... I missed his love so much. All my hard work in the last 2 weeks is gone and he is talking divorce again :((((((( please help :(((
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
This divorce busting - is it pretension? I can only pretend for so long ... I want to give my husband love and fun, does Db allow it? I tried not touching him for a week but he even got more distant and it all blew up yesterday. He seems to like my love and attention.. can I do it? He also says he loves me but that we are not talking. He has decided that we can’t talk and I can’t seem to change his mind about it no matter what I do. So what can I do to make it work? Maybe DB is not for everyone? Are there other methods/ ways to get our marriage back on track?
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I really feel that the only answer to this is love... and it starts with self love... while still loving him and giving him the space. I am not oging to fall of the horse again. I probably need theraphy to increase my self confidence and not to feel needy.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
JLS, I see that your husband is 61. And your are 34.
I know you probably get tired of the age issue from outsiders, as you probably hear lots of things about it. But it is kind of the elephant in the room so I will just go ahead and broach the subject. How much of your current issues do you think is related to the age difference?
I know you said he is young looking, active, etc. That's great.
But a 61 year-old business owner is in a completely different place than a 34 year-old. You obviously want to have kids. He is looking at retirement in a few years. Do you see how those two things could be at odds? Say you got pregnant right now. He'd be 79 when his son or daughter went off to college. I don't know your financial sitch, but most of us would be in a sheer panic at the thought of paying for college, 18 years from now, in retirement.
The sudden proposal after the "not wanting to be a father" issue is alarming. I'm 49 years old. If something happened to my W and I started being pursued by a 22 year-old, I might be willing to tell her anything in order to land her! I am not saying that is what he did, but he due to love he might have really even meant it at the time. But after the wedding, when the reality of you moving forward with having kids set in, thoughts like the above might have been in the back of his head.
Obviously, the important thing is that you want to save your marriage. So DBing is going to give you the best opportunity for that. I am not sure LTR is the right approach though. LTR is for a very specific set of circumstances. (Have your read DB/DR??) I think the approach you want to take is GAL, 180s, and detachment. Being the spouse only a fool would leave!
However, I do think you need to deal with the kids issue. I think that is a giant vortex in the middle of your MR. There is going to be resentment for a long time to come from either or both of you if that isn't resolved satisfactorily.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Dear Steve85. Thank you so much for your post and I couldn't agree more than yes, children issue, is very important for me and it may or may not, after the wedding when the reality kicked in- have scared him off again. The most upsetting thing is that it was the very same reason of my divorce to my first husband. Although looking back I| believe that DB/DR would have helped,. I married very young and I didn't talk about having children the first tiem round until when I was about 25/26 he said a definite no to children I decided to divorce. Funny enough we got back together after the divorce but by then it was too late for me and my heart and I wanted to start with someone else while I am still young. So I met my current husband and I was very open to my willingness of having children. Oh well.. Maybe I have a type!! But it is ridiculous that the second husband I got married to does not want children. Maybe I am not meant to have them? He does keep telling that we have communication issues and we don't talk. It has gone so far that I have been very conscious about what I talk that it almost became natural... I really want to sort that and have some fun conversations and be natural..
But now he wants to divorce- he even confirmed this to me this morning although I am cooking supper tonight for myself and him.
I don't think being an older father bothered him too much because his own dad had a second marriage when he had 3 children in his mid/late sixties. The children (his stepbrother and step sisters) told me that they couldn't have happier childhoods and better dad and they wouldn't change it for the world ... so he has a real sample in his family. Also being 61 and getting married for the first time was a major step for my husband, he had time to think it through, his friends were surprised too.. they thought he would be an eternal batchelor... and I believe he is a family man and would make a wonderful father. I work and have career too and there is no problem with finances etc. We are both attractive, tall ... and friends have often told us that we make a good looking couple...
maybe I am convincing myself?
The bottom line is that I love him. I really do.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
MrsJLS. Sorry to hear about your issues and I wish you the best. Listen to Steve85 and any of the Vets that take an interest in your situation. Read the DR book when it comes, you can read chapter 1 on here to get you started. It is not an easy process and from a man who's been with his W (may be STBXW for over 20 years) I can say that any marriage is not perfect, but my true belief is love can overcome everything. I am struggling very much with the advice that I am given here. Patience is THE key. Become a better you. A spouse that only a fool would leave. Having kids is a HUGE issue in your sitch, so that is something you have to address and decide on, but knowing who You, knowing you are in the marriage through choice and because you want to be with your spouse, means a great deal to your self esteem and their desire to be with you.
Just my input IMO
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
Thank you JustSad. I appreciate anyone who has something to say and I am taking it all on my stride. Could I please have a link to the first chapter. I can't seem to find it.
Yes, I want to make it work. I also want to become the best person I possibly can be.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
The reason we are all here, to find a way to make it work. In the meantime, knowing and realizing that the first sentence may not be an option, be the best YOU you can be!
I don't know if it was Lonewolf or not, but I think he said that nothing is more attractive to a WAS/WS than when a LBS is walking away. Take that to heart!
All the best, it is not fun, but this board is an amazing place to sound off before "going" off on your spouse. Be smart, this a marathon and not a sprint. As you read through the situations going on here, you realize that the WAS/WS did make the decision to move on, but the LBS has a lot of the power in whether they work on the MR or decide to move on. You are not powerless, nor do you have all of the control. You are only in charge of you. No one else knows your situation better than you and of course your spouse. The input you will receive from this board will be invaluable! but YOU have to decide what is best for you and your MR.
My Best wishes and I will be following along. I don't comment often, just on here today due to my sitch, but if I think I have something to add, I definitely will.
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
JustSad- wonderful advice thank you. I will start with myself first, refocus and also pray for the highest good.
H arrived at home tonight after visiting a friend whose wife is dying of Motor Neurone Disease (well, that's puts things into the whole different perspective) and I already had supper on its way. I love cooking, it is one of the things I really enjoy doing and a little part of me believes that it is a way to any man's heart... he used to say that he married me because of my cooking. So I polished up my own tricks... we talked about his friend and his poor wife (interestingly that they got married after her diagnosis and after living together for more than 20 years). Anyhow, my H was eating and saying how delicious and healthy it was. And I was joking in my self depricating way that it is just my way of earning a few brownie points as my bank called me that I am running out of my brownie credits. That seemed to bring a smile for H (yess!!). One of the things we used to share was our jokes and the same sense of humour- I used to find him incredibly funny and we used to laugh so much before all this started... I would love to bring it back - our light hearted jokes.. H didn't mentioned Divorce or our disastrous last night...
I am just going through some resource threads now- some amazing advice. I am feeling a bit more positive... can't wait for a book to arrive.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
We live in London and today we are off to Dorset for a weekend to visit his friends- two couples who have been married for more than 25 years, all around my H age and older. I made a stupid mistake to call one of these friends about 6 months ago when I was at my wits end and while crying on the phone I told her how neglectful my H is that he let me down in such a major way. She seemed very supportive at the time but then I found out that she took the sides and told my H everything... but I was silly. Of course she would take his side beacaue I am a much younger wife and a foreigner and they all very English and been friends for some 40 years. I remember that she texted him ( I used to get access to my H phone.. I know.. bad- all this was before I was looking for support and found this forum) in the text she wrote- that I am a Bunny Boiler, suicadal and will do something bad to him. It was unbelievably hurtful as I never indicated anything like that, she must have been sick in the head to write something like that. Since then I haven't told her anything and she would be the last person I would call in times of distress, however I am still seeing his friends often and I have to keep up with appearances... of course they all know now about our troubles since that call. I will do my best to be the best person I am...
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I think your H is sensible in his desire for a childfree life. In 10 years time an 8 year old may be a problem for him.
I know you love your H, but it is likely to come to a decision of children or M. In 30 years time you are likely to be alone so think very carefully about your decision. If you decide to have a child by H and make that a unilateral decision then I believe he will walk anyway. He didn't think this through properly. His friends may think you tricked him into M which isnt the case, but it leaves you very isolated and unsupported. I hope you have a good friend IRL who can guide you a little.
Age gap M with the gap as large as yours have a less than 1% chance of survival. The odds are heavily stacked against you in this M. That's just stats though.
As long as you are here and wanting to DB your M then this is a good place to be.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 07/21/1803:15 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Vanilla - wow that was some straight talking and I totally respect and value what you have to say. I know that my case is unusual but I also know couples who have done it and it works. I am probably convincing myself because of my love for H. I don’t want to divorce ... I love him and want to be with him. None of us know What will happen in the next 5 minutes. I am aware that I am going against the odds and even if we end up having children together...I do face a high probability of them losing their father early in their lives. Yet this is the decision I have made in my wedding day ... and so did he or at least he told me so. I really don’t know what to do because I do want to save the marriage and have a family with my H.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
We actually ended up having a lovely evening in Dorset... chats and laughter and good food and wine , and he was funny, loving and attentive (he gave me kiss me infront of others )... I know that his friends are wary of me but a lot of them like me and everyone can see how much I love my H. Yes.. they did talk about era I don’t know and friends I haven’t met before.. but I still had fun and enjoyed the conversations . That’s ok, isn’t it?
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I just woke up as I couldn’t stop thinking about our issues... age gap etc. He says he doesn’t want children now not because his age but because our relationship is bad and he doesn’t want to bring a child into this world if we argue all the time. He comes from a divorced family and he doesn’t remember much of his childhood- so traumatic it was that he never committed until he met me. When I left him when we were dating as he said - I don’t want to be a father, after that he had z6 months to think about it .. I didn’t trick him in, I didn’t go on convincing, I left him alone. He obviously missed me so much that he can’t back and married me... he knew what I wanted and he said he wants children too. He is a responsible man , he had a lot of time to think about it and he would never do something he doesn’t want nor he would do that just to get me ... he could easily get a woman who doesn’t want children etc. I have been horrible to him after that car journey- crying, blaming, not talking - so I better do my best to show that I can change and I am the woman he married to... if then he doesn’t want children, I will be left with making a decision.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I decided to open up to my H so I asked whether or not this talking / conversation issue is an excuse for not having children as I said that I am afraid that it may be the case. I kept an easy/nonjudgmental tone. H replied that it is not an excuse and he would like to have children had our relationship been good. Then I also asked today about whether or not he is worried about his age- he said that it doesn't help that he is so old but it is not a problem...
Well... that gives me structure to try my best in saving the marriage first.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I have been reading the validation thread (my book hasn’t arrived yet) and thought to try it on my H in our conversations. It works! He seemed to be satisfied after our talks as I kept being emphatic and understanding him what he says and feels. H: “there has been so much damage created in the past year and what you did last Thursday was unacceptable “ ( we had an argument last Thursday and I lashed out at him) me:” I understand that you feel that there has been damage in our relationship and I am sorry about last Thursday- It wasnt good but I felt hurt too” etc etc well here is the skill I must learn and practice! My 180- something I haven’t done before. Happy Monday! X
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I decided to open up to my H so I asked whether or not this talking / conversation issue is an excuse for not having children as I said that I am afraid that it may be the case. I kept an easy/nonjudgmental tone. H replied that it is not an excuse and he would like to have children had our relationship been good. Then I also asked today about whether or not he is worried about his age- he said that it doesn't help that he is so old but it is not a problem...
Well... that gives me structure to try my best in saving the marriage first.
Remember, believe nothing they say only half of what they do.
Just take everything he says with a grain of salt. For instance, what IF he is purposely making your R bad do he has an excuse to not have children? It is amazing the lengths WASs will go in order to "not be at fault". He knows he is on the hook as saying he'd have children with you.....so it is easier to just have a crappy MR than to go back on his word.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thank you Steve85 - I take your view and I can only hope it may not be the case. Inside me I am allowing it some time... Let's say- i - if I aply these techniques from DB/DR for the next 6-12 months, and I make myself the best person I can be, I validate, am understanding, GAL, stop complaining ,begging, crying, grow up (he often said I behave like a child... which may or may not be true) and THEN he says he doesn't want children nor intimacy- I will be left with the deicision to make... but I know myself that I haven't been the best spouse and I probably overreacted and the last year we both have been miserable. The fact that his business suffered hasn't helped things either.
I would like to believe that the man I got married to is honest and ultimately he wants to have a family.
Yes, I have also thought that he makes our relationship bad in purpose... but looking deeper- I can also say that I have contributed to the damage as well.. and I can only stop that being the case from my part.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
One of my 180- is to initiate doing things together as up until now I let my H do all the planning... as I thought it is a man's job.. I have been quite passive and tradional in this... I don't want to be a pursuer either so I am not quite sure how to manage it. For example- I would like to go to see movie tomorrow, do I get the tickets and casually ask him if he wants to come along?
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
H is still very distant... when I ask him- are you alright? He says he is just sorting himself out. In those moments I want to screm- get a grip, I am hurting too. But I don't... I shut up.
We are going to the movie after all, I got the tickets- he seemed to be happy about my suggestion. I can't stop feeling like a pursuer though. Also- all the affection, cuddles, kisses, touches I seem to intiiate- he does enjoy it when I do yet I still feel that being intimate to my H is like million light years away- we haven't had it for the best part of the marriage and I miss it. I have considered having A, there have been a few opportunities... but then I know I better go for D than do this.
I often feel that I am walking on eggshells- one wrong move and it will all end in tears- e.g. D. I know I have to be strong and patient.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I am feeling so hopeless in this, he said tonight that it is too late and there is too much damage and he is too hurt. I can keep apologising until cows go home but it is like against the wall. He refuses to see through our problems and just keeps saying how depressed he is. I can’t wait for a book to arrive ... now I am just crying in pillow. I love him and desperately want to save our marriage. He seemed to enjoy the movie together but at the moment I feel I can stand on my head but nothing is going to make my M better :(((
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
He is still in his negative state today and keeps saying how horrible our marriage and how depressed he is feeling. I keep validating him to my hearts content.
I went for an early morning walk with the dog and really thought everything through... and decided that the best I can do is to love him and show him that... but at the same time not being a doormat either. I liked what I found on this site- act as a caring neighbour or the lighthouse story.
Detaching or going dark- which I done last week -does not work, he just gets more distant and I am more frustrated. Being in my best persona I feel more control because now I don't give him any reason to leave me.
Still waiting for DR book to arrive....!
Last edited by MrsJLS; 07/25/1811:17 AM.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Still no progress.. patience is the key in this but sometimes when he leaves the room after saying - it doesn't work and we are not talking- no matter how chatty, cheerful, fun I am... I am left with tears in my eyes. I am starting to ask myself- here I am 34 yo blonde, tall, attractive, intelligent (did I mention modest) getting plenty of attention outside home but my own 61 yo husband is totally ignoring me. It just doesn't make sense. I try not to believe anything in what he says and half of what he does just as suggested... keep calm and carry on... with tears in my eyes.
What I can say that each night- at least I go to sleep knowing that I did the best I could do... and I really am the best person I could possibly be.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
What I can say that each night- at least I go to sleep knowing that I did the best I could do... and I really am the best person I could possibly be.
BINGO. This is the key. You can control you, not him. JLS I don't know what will happen with your and your H, but I do know that YOU will be fine. You will move forward. You have a lot of life ahead of you and a lot to give to someone that wants you and values you. That may be your H eventually, it may be someone new.
Stay strong. It always gets worse before it gets better, but it does get better!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
The DR book arrived yesterday so I spent almost all day reading it! So many useful tips and advice, and gives me great encouragement for a way forward.
We both went for a cycle ride around London today (my suggestion) - there is a big cycling event and the roads around the central area are closed. I kept being cheerful and upbeat throughout the ride, together we helped a lady who fell of her bike, had an icecream in Hydepark after the route and when at home he said that he enjoyed it. Maybe there is hope after all.
I wanted to put down my goals here: 1) H intitates intimacy and wants children (last time we ML was one year ago) small steps would be: -H kisses me ( so far hasn't) -H hugs me when we go to sleep - nothing yet -H says a compliment- nope -H initiates ML -H says he wants a family and does something about it
2) we have lovely/easy conversations and plan things/holidays together - we talk during the meal times and in between in an easy non pressured way, we never run out of the things to talk about - we go to movies once a month - occasional weekends away in the countryside -planning a romantic holiday - Italy/France in September (well, I can dream, can't I?) - making Christmas plans -sponatneous walks/coffee around the town -visiting a gallery/theatre/concert once a month
3) H is being happy about the future with me -he finds a way continuing doing his business which struggling at the moment - he visits a doctor/looks for a help/ talks to a friend for his depression - he stops being grumpy all the time!
That's about it. How does it look? Comments/suggestions?
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
MrsJLS I understand how you feel. You are a lovely caring person and your H is a fool not to value you. I live not all that far from you, I'm a bit older than you and have 2 young kids. My advice... if you want a great family life then both parents need to be ultra supportive because it's hard work (and can be the most fantastic rewarding thing ever in life). Your H doesn't sound like he wants to do that. If you do go on to have kids together and then the M fails... then I can assure you it is really tough, way more difficult than a couple splitting. I admire you for trying to save your M.
I pulled out my copy of DR to reread the goals chapter. The book says to pick goals that can be accomplished in a week or two. Yours seem much too ambitious.
Also, honestly the way MWD talks about goals is a bit different from how most people think about goals, and I think it is easy for LBSes to head down a bad path based on what they understand the book to be saying.
Personally, I think the only person you can have goals for is yourself. Everything else is a wish or a hope.
Based on that idea, only #2 comes close to being a goal, and even that is only half goal/half wish.
If your wish is that you and your husband have easy conversations, think about what in your behavior is making it difficult for you to have those conversations, and then identify 180s you can do in those areas. If you usually try to engage him as soon as he walks in the door and he seems unresponsive, give him space when he gets home and talk to him over dinner. If there's a topic that frequently leads to conflict, think about how you could change what you say and how you react in that conversation to diffuse the tension. Also identify some small signs that you are moving closer to those easy conversations. Is it that he asks you a question about your day? That he tells you something about his? That he chooses to stay in the same room as you?
Then, you implement the 180s in your behavior and look to see if there is any response from him that moves you closer to the wish of having better conversations.
You can change only yourself.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
The DR book arrived yesterday so I spent almost all day reading it! So many useful tips and advice, and gives me great encouragement for a way forward.
We both went for a cycle ride around London today (my suggestion) - there is a big cycling event and the roads around the central area are closed. I kept being cheerful and upbeat throughout the ride, together we helped a lady who fell of her bike, had an icecream in Hydepark after the route and when at home he said that he enjoyed it. Maybe there is hope after all.
I wanted to put down my goals here: 1) H intitates intimacy and wants children (last time we ML was one year ago) small steps would be: -H kisses me ( so far hasn't) -H hugs me when we go to sleep - nothing yet -H says a compliment- nope -H initiates ML -H says he wants a family and does something about it
2) we have lovely/easy conversations and plan things/holidays together - we talk during the meal times and in between in an easy non pressured way, we never run out of the things to talk about - we go to movies once a month - occasional weekends away in the countryside -planning a romantic holiday - Italy/France in September (well, I can dream, can't I?) - making Christmas plans -sponatneous walks/coffee around the town -visiting a gallery/theatre/concert once a month
3) H is being happy about the future with me -he finds a way continuing doing his business which struggling at the moment - he visits a doctor/looks for a help/ talks to a friend for his depression - he stops being grumpy all the time!
That's about it. How does it look? Comments/suggestions?
These are not goals but wishes.
You can not set goals for another's behaviour or actions.
GOALS ARE ABOUT YOU NOT ABOUT YOUR H.
None of this is achievable because the goals are about your actions, things which are under your control.
If you even try actions like these you will come across as controlling.
So there is no way you can make H want children or initiate intamcy, stop trying to control H who he is, what he wants, thinks and does.
GOALS ARE ABOUT YOU.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
David Rose Vanilla- thank you, I am re reading the goal chapter and trying to get it right. And I am getting confused. From her examples in the book -the goals are about what the other person does. Am I missing something there? I realise that a lot of goals/wishes are longer term but how would I break down for example this one: H kisses me or H says ILY - as MWD states om her book the goals must describe the actual behaviour and be action-oriented/specific. She also encourages to look for the small positive signs of change in WAS to see if the goals are going in the positive direction.
As for the conversations- I have a real trouble with this and I am trying to be as objective as I can. I realise that in the past I shut down and didn't talk, and sulked... so my 180 now is talking about anything almost all the time, be open and fun- just like I was when we first met. I can put other 180s: Invite him along if I plan something, suggest to do things together Don't talk about R, especially when we go to sleep- we used to have hours and hours of conversations in bed... my initiative... Be independent abd confident- no clinginess, crying, neediness as before GAL- struggling with this at the moment Always smile when I see him
I need to work on GAL- it is Sunday and it's raining and we both are at home...
Looking at this... just makes me realise what a horrible wife I have been during the last year or so- after he said that he doesn't want children. Instead of trying to be calm and collected and think/discuss our problems rationally, I did like from the textbook everything that were truly damaging for the M, totally out of control.
As for the small positive changes- he seems to be a bit more relaxed and not as negative as a few days ago. Still no signs of affection though.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
It is confusing. Frankly, I think the examples in the goals chapter are really bad.
Your 180s sound good. Be careful about inviting him and suggesting plans, as that can feel like pursuit. Make plans for yourself, invite him, but if he doesn't go, make sure you go anyway.
Are you seeing an individual counselor? I highly recommend it. Among other things, you need to figure out if you still want to be married to him if he stays depressed and never wants children.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Yesterday we went for a drive and walk together (Again my suggestion). I must be careful with this as it does seem as pursuit, also I told him ILY to which he replied :that’s nice.... I guess I should stop saying that because it isn’t answered and only hurts me. Overall, I must adjust all pursuit behaviours to 180. My only worry is that it will push him further away and distance him even more. I am not seeing an individual councillor... maybe I should, I am not sure how exactly it would help me at this point though.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Have you read about the pursuit and distance dynamic? Were you ever pursued by someone you didn't like? The more they pursue, the less you want to spend time with them, until, if they don't stop, you become repulsed by them.
Not pursuing allows him to let his defenses down and enjoy your relationship a little bit on his terms. If he feels like engaging with you will lead to you asking him for more, he's less likely to engage at all.
On my first appointment with my counselor, I said, "My husband is going to divorce me, and I want to get through this without hating myself."
She helped me process things, and helped me feel like a worthwhile and lovable person while I was learning to self-validate. She also helped me break mental habits that lead to a lot of presumptive worry and stress.
And like I said, I think you could use a sounding board to decide if you want to be married to your husband as he is, or only if he stops being depressed and wants kids.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Rose- thanks a million, I really needed to hear that so I am now stopping all the pursuit behaviour as for this morning. My willingness to control and fix the situation hasn't served me well at all. I am taking a step back... I just need to trust myself that it is going to be alright.
I had a wobble yesterday and again was reduced to tears by my H's indifference... but I managed to hold in and smile and talk cheerfully. I felt so proud of myself afterwards that I took control over my emotions and detached. I really feel that I don't deserve to be treated with such indifference but I am trying to believe that it is only a phase we are going through.
It will be interesting this afternoon as a good friend of mine is popping in to visit me with a 2 months old baby...
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
So my friend with a baby (7 weeks) came to visit... we had a lovely chat and tea, and H came to say hello- he was very charming and funny... almost hisold self in public... also when he talks to his friends on the phone he doesn't sound depressed at all. He is only like that with me. After my friend left, my H didnt comment on anything... nor did I. I don't have many friends with small children, and all his friends have children who are teenagers or in their twenties...
But when I helt my friend's baby I just felt so much longing. I really hope to experience being a mother one day. But at what price? We have home and lifestyle to suit the child, we are both married, I love him...
My friend suggested to give it a deadline- time when I will leave if nothing works out, I am not sure if I should do that? Does anyone on here has a deadline on DB?
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I am sure that my W is taking money to hide in advance of issuing a D. Therefore I might have to D her by a deadline to help protect myself.
MrsJLS, I wish my W was more like you in trying to save M. About a week before W left I'd mentioned having another baby. I guess your deadline is your body clock minus the time to meet someone new (who would be a great father and H) and the time to get pregnant.
Thank you for your kind words DavidUK As for the children... I do want them but I am also considering that I might have a life without them... which would be awfully sad and, of course, I hope that I will have them. But I am not that desperate to be a single mother, take an artificial route for some egg or sperm donations etc, obviously I am also not that desperate to D my H because of that... just yet. I trust and hope that things will work out one way or another.
So yesterday I didn't kiss him or touch him once nor I said ILY... it was really strange for me as I am so used to giving and expressing love, perhaps that's how 180s must feel.. strange, out of my character. I am not even sure if H noticed because the distance is just the same... however I am going to carry on with this no pursuit- no touch or no ILY but friendly, chattu and cheerful. We are going to the movies tonight, my suggestion again and I got the tickets. I know it seemed like a pursuit, however it is my 180 too as I have never done it before. I told him that I want to see the new Tom Cruise movie and I am getting two tickets. If he were to say no, I would get my friend to come anyway.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
As MWD suggested I am noticing small positive changes. So I continued no pursuing today, confident, chatty and fun self and we went for a movie together... which I agree might look as pursuing but I really just thought I am going out with a friend not my H. There was a small wobble in our conversation during the day but I managed to get out of it nicely without causing further arguments. And H kissed me 3 times today ( yes, I am counting), hugged me once and held my hand a few times when crossing a road and came into our home office, when I was working, to have a chat! I am gobsmacked!!! Rose was right- I am giving him space to decide to lead the relationship... fingers crossed it continues.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Congrats JLS! This is very common. When you stop being he pursuer, you often become the pursuee. It takes time though and most LBSs get impatient with the wait-and-see approach and keep pressuring and pursuing because it feels more natural. Not pursuing requires effort and self-control.
Well done. It is important to remain consistent because he could just be temp checking. Don't take the positives as a sign that he is now open to pursuit.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Great job JLS! The baby steps work. and then they don't, and then they may again. Issues I am working on is of course the patience and time. We all want it to be fixed now, back to our MR and a future. It just doesn't work that way. 1 step forward, 2 steps back. You will make mis steps. Recognize them quickly, adapt, even duck and cover if necessary. On my side, the other gender I mean, we look to be the fixer, to solve the issues quickly and move on. Not very patient and the LBH is fairly lost. I can only imagine what it feels like on your side as a LBW. My suggestion, FWIW, is to read through other's situations and see the similarities. EVERY sitch is "slightly" different. Ea/Pa, grown apart, your particular issues to overcome, so EVERYONE feels so isolated, alone and that their situation is so unique. If you pick away at the minutia (he likes dungeons and dragons and I am an athlete so we have nothing in common) anyone can justify S or D on its surface.
This board offers you the ability to read, reflect, comment on other situations and for also you to understand that although NONE are exactly the same, MOST are very similar so that gives us the ability to know that we are not alone. Many other couples experience this. Happiness and togetherness area choice.
Best advice from me IMO, be true to yourself. The introspective analysis into who you are, your personality, desires and future goals you have to be honest with. As far as MR, my personal view points is that outside of major issues (hard drugs, major abuse, infidelity, etc.) Happiness is a choice. I believe if you love someone, you will in some way love them forever. It is one of the strongest emotions we get to experience in our lives. It doesn't happen often (at least not for me. pushing 52 and only loved 3 women in my life. I would question one as more of puppy love as it was a long term high school romance, but it was true love. You can take the "life [censored]" approach. And many have been in and out of this realm very much from time to time
Somehow, our current spouses have the ability to close us out as they see the exit our of the MR as their "golden rainbow" to happiness.
Do you have to the time to DB, make it work and rekindle your MR?
No One Knows.
Me. together with my W for 21 years. She is still the sexiest, most attractive woman I have known. More importantly, outside of her health issues, she is a great mother. Hoping for the best in your situation!!!
Keep your head high!
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
Thank you so much for your kind words and encouragement. I am reading other posts and I am very well aware that I have to be very very patient and navigate through these changes very carefully and very slowly without any backsliding from my side. This forum has given me so much already- I don't feel alone in this and reading other experiences helps me enormously. I realise that I have to work out my own issues (insecurity, need to feel loved, GAL) first before asking something from my H.
Nothing much happened yesterday, I think he only touched my shoulder once but he appeared to be a bit more cheerful than before and he said a few jokes and generally was in a good mood. When he went out shopping yesterday he asked me if I would like anything and I jokingly said- "a chocolate please". H is on 5-2 diet and yesterday was his dieting day. H smiled and said- "that's not fair, I am on a diet!" Nevertheless, he came back with a big bar of chocolate, gave to me and said- "I can be nice to my girl sometimes"... I know I shouldn't assume anything but I thought that he enjoyed doing something nice to me.
Tomorrow we are travelling to stay with his friends' at their house in the middle of nowhere- it was planned some time ago- nothing romantic as we will sleep on the bunk beds but again I have a great opportunity to show myself from my very best. I really have been doing that since our last horrible evening 2 weeks ago and I notice changes... no pursuing seems to work as well and he hasn't mentioned D word for about a week now. I just need to remind myself to keep going- smile, be cheerful, confident and fun regardless of what I feel inside... and it remainds me that I was like this when we first met- very confident and hopeful for the future.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Ha... you were all so right- one step forward and two back... he is very cold and distant to me today. I half expected this to happen yet it does hurt. Of course, I am not showing that to him.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
You cannot analyze it at all. You can only be yourself. They make no sense. In my sitch, if my W feels like she is falling back into any sort of "comfortable zone" with me, she finds some way to try to pick a fight, antagonize or just becomes the cold and distant person you said your H is today.
It is not pleasant. I can tell you that their roller coaster is real. Do not board the ride! Be a lighthouse bystander. Detach. Validate when approached. Do not pursue. GAL and do your own thing!
JMHO.
M51 W44 T21 M18 D14 S11 BD date 9/17 W filed 02/18 W withdrew petition following week In house separation 03/18 In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18 W is moving out by mid Nov 2018 A drawing up paperwork 11/18
Ha... you were all so right- one step forward and two back... he is very cold and distant to me today. I half expected this to happen yet it does hurt. Of course, I am not showing that to him.
Its difficult sometimes on this board as you have so many contrasting views and very little or low success rates in achieving a long standing or permanent recon. I look at some peoples advise and its all nice and fluffy and sometimes I feel like the advise I give is less sugar coated than most - but at the end of the day, I have been through this process myself and have experienced the ridiculous highs and lows that accompany it.
However, as we sit here today I am in a favourable position and I know how disconnected from my W I got, in order to provide an environment that would allow her to leave, but have the ability to look back and think (what if I am wrong). We talk about it on a weekly basis so I am aware of what works and what doesn't from both sides.
I did mention yesterday that I believed the cinema trip was a bad idea. It might have been all friendly and innocent to you, however thats to you, not him. To him, it would more than likely still feel like pursuit and same old JLS in a way. By that I mean that it is obvious you still want him back. (I believe you even counted the number of times he kissed you) Which to me personally is the wrong signal to be giving out. Your are still available - which doesn't give the other person any danger signs that you might not actually want to be with him either! - seems counter intuitive but the best way forward without a shadow of a doubt is to create a healthy amount of distance and to act like they are not around anymore - like they have died - force yourself to go into the mode and you will find a part inside of you that will be more of a beacon to him - than any other technique or tips here will achieve. I promise you that.
Benito I read your message several times and intuitively I know that you are absolutely right. My H has a history of on/off relationships in the past and with me.. he is a distance but I also remember him being a pursuer- he came back to me with a proposal when he knew he is losing me and he desperately wanted to get married as soon as possible. I know that now I have to show confidence and distance and somehow make him realise that he might lose me (but how? As we live together and sleep in the same MB albeit no touches, kisses never mind no ML) yet I am struggling with this concept because I want to show him that I am an amazing wife, the spouse only a fool would leave.., a lighthouse. And in my mind if I create distance I will only alienate him because he will not see how wonderful/fun I am. I guess it is a balancing act but I do wonder if anyone has experience with how to do it.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Benito I read your message several times and intuitively I know that you are absolutely right. My H has a history of on/off relationships in the past and with me.. he is a distance but I also remember him being a pursuer- he came back to me with a proposal when he knew he is losing me and he desperately wanted to get married as soon as possible. I know that now I have to show confidence and distance and somehow make him realise that he might lose me (but how? As we live together and sleep in the same MB albeit no touches, kisses never mind no ML) yet I am struggling with this concept because I want to show him that I am an amazing wife, the spouse only a fool would leave.., a lighthouse. And in my mind if I create distance I will only alienate him because he will not see how wonderful/fun I am. I guess it is a balancing act but I do wonder if anyone has experience with how to do it.
OK..
The question how do I make him realize, is part of the underlying issue in my opinion.
If any of your actions or behavior is to trigger a response that is outside of yourself then you are not being true to yourself.
At the start of any relationship, you dont have to convince or entice the other person in, generally you are enough just being yourself. Thats the excitement of it.
At this stage it seems counter intuitive but the more you focus on you and I mean that literally 100% focus on you and your wants - without any concern about the consequences is the only way to send an unconscious message that his power over you is no more and you are more interested in your life than convincing him he has to be part of it. Its so so hard and scary but the only way to ensure an authentic ending - which ever way it goes.
There is no magic trick to this. You have to truly let them go ... for them to be able to return.
It has been several days since I posted. H and I were away at his friends house in the middle of nowhere. It was interesting and lovely and we had a lot of laughs and fun together yet... there were misunderstandings too... and one morning I woke up in tears just being so torn apart by his lack of affection and constant rejection and my longing to have a happy marriage and a family . I have been thinking a lot about what Benito said about letting your spouse go... and if they return then it is much more solid than me trying to make this R and M work. The whole point of DB is to stop trying doing anything and get over your insecurities and be independent and confident and self sufficient. Intellectually I am aware of it but in my emotions I find this concept very challenging.
H is going away for boys holiday on Friday for a week with his mates ( I supported it) so we will have some valuable time apart...
I realise that this change of letting him go and fully accepting that my M might not work and be absolutely ok with that .. has to come from my heart. And I am putting that intention inside me. And be free myself and set him free. Sounds easy and romantic on writing but inside me I am shaken.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Apologies for being MIA, have been dealing with a personal issue, which is on my own thread in surviving.
Goals
OK goals are about your own actions, things you do.
Outcomes are the result of the goals and it's how you measure the goals are effective.
----------------------------------
Goals are:
Action orientated In the present tense Personal Measurable Capable of changing that is you do that which works. ----------------------------------
So a great goal might be:
I have activities that I enjoy and I go GAL three times a week.......... The goal is enjoyable GAL the measure is 3 times a week, the outcome is (dancing 3 times)
I am happily exercising, and I go to the gym 5 times a week go running etc The goal is exercise the measure is 5 times a week the outcome is being able to run 3 miles
Now
I am looking fabulous, I dress to the shoes every day, I wear perfume etc and H mentions how lovely I look and I feel amazing
The goal is looking fabulous the measure is every day the outcome is H says how lovely I look and to feel amazing
The goal isn't H says how lovely I look, you have no control over H or what he says
You are detached from H saying you look lovely, it's an outcome, great if he does and great if he doesn't because you feel amazing anyway.
-------------------------------------------------
I trust that explains.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 08/08/1809:56 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
MrsJLS, I wonder if your H is using his lack of affection as a way of controlling you.
Yesterday, I spoke to a councillor who asked me if I'd ever consider having a family with someone other than W. I hadn't seriously considered that before. I said I would. Having a family together really is so, so wonderful but unfortunately my W now only seems interested in her career and taking money planning for a D.
I have since lost more than 2 st in weight and now have women saying to me that I'm gorgeous and a great Dad. I am a confident person but it is a bit weird hearing compliments. A few weeks ago W said to me "Gosh you're tall" - it's like she had completely forgotten the 25 years together (more than half of our lives)... and then I realised that I'm walking tall. My posture is so much better than having to stoop down to her level...
Vanilla- thank you for clarifying this, that was a great help as I was really struggling with my goals and MWD book was a bit confusing.
So we are back in London and H is back in his negative state, keeps talking that he wants to D, saying how depressed he is, saying how hurt he is and how destructive I have been during the last year (by crying, blaming him for not giving me children and not being intimate). I validated, listened and continued saying that I want to work on M. Did it make me look like I am pursuing? He is going away tomorrow... I feel that he sees me as this terrible monster who has trapped him into the situation he never wanted to be in, who has hurt him, who has blamed him and made him feel guilty... it makes me feel terrible. I keep putting myself in shoes and trying to see what he sees and I am genuiely very sorry for all the crying I have done as I was so hurt as well and in million years I didn't want to hurt him and I didn't know that I did that. Now I know. I have told him that this morning- and he said: I had enough and it is too late, the damage is done. I feel the only thing he thinks now that the light at the end of the tunnel starts with D.
Oh well... and I thought I was doing quite well. I am feeling very sad now. He might well file after he comes back from his boys holiday... so here I am - a young blonde 34 yo trying to tell her 61 yo husband she wants to save their almost year 1.5 marriage. At one point during our conversation this morning I asked myself- have I really downgraded myself to such a low point...
DavidUK- he might well use his lack of affection as a form of controlling... but from all these threads I realise that right now all I am doing is focusing on him. I must rewrite my goals and focus on myself. Just like you have done by losing the weight and putting the focus on yourself. It is amazing that you ar considering children with someone else other than your W.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
DavidUK- he might well use his lack of affection as a form of controlling... but from all these threads I realise that right now all I am doing is focusing on him. I must rewrite my goals and focus on myself. Just like you have done by losing the weight and putting the focus on yourself. It is amazing that you ar considering children with someone else other than your W.
I was amazed the councillor asked me that question. It took me by total surprise. I thought 'if I met someone genuine who didn't have a family but wanted one and who like me would be willing to work on any issues together that might ever arise, then yes I would'.
Before we split, I said to W about having another child. She said it was a "stupid" idea. Unbeknownst to me at the time she was taking money and planning D... whilst also sleeping with me and saying we were soul-mates.
I have never done drugs, don't gamble or smoke, good in all social situations, well-spoken, good sense of humour, affectionate, faithful, good at cooking, have done a great job raising my kids (top of the class by a mile) etc. However, W has taken it all for granted. She had never been in a serious relationship before meeting me so doesn't know how lucky she has been. It could take me a very long time to find someone who is compatible and appreciative.
The fact that you have been crying and upset shows to me that you care. Never be sorry for it, don't blame yourself. Your H should respect that you care enough to cry and to try, not see it as a negative.
DavidUK- thank you. It is amazing how you have put yourself together and are looking forward to the future. At the moment, I feel challenging to see that. But I hope that this is just a phase. I was driving earlier today and all of the sudden there was a song on a radio and this immense sadness came like a wave - for my marriage, for my husband.. and I just drove and cried. It lasted about 10 minutes, after that I put myself together and I am feeling much better now. Maybe I just need to let it feel these feelings and allow all these emotions out (without my H seeing them).
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Vanilla- thank you for clarifying this, that was a great help as I was really struggling with my goals and MWD book was a bit confusing.
So we are back in London and H is back in his negative state, keeps talking that he wants to D, saying how depressed he is, saying how hurt he is and how destructive I have been during the last year (by crying, blaming him for not giving me children and not being intimate). I validated, listened and continued saying that I want to work on M. Did it make me look like I am pursuing? He is going away tomorrow... I feel that he sees me as this terrible monster who has trapped him into the situation he never wanted to be in, who has hurt him, who has blamed him and made him feel guilty... it makes me feel terrible. I keep putting myself in shoes and trying to see what he sees and I am genuiely very sorry for all the crying I have done as I was so hurt as well and in million years I didn't want to hurt him and I didn't know that I did that. Now I know. I have told him that this morning- and he said: I had enough and it is too late, the damage is done. I feel the only thing he thinks now that the light at the end of the tunnel starts with D.
Oh well... and I thought I was doing quite well. I am feeling very sad now. He might well file after he comes back from his boys holiday... so here I am - a young blonde 34 yo trying to tell her 61 yo husband she wants to save their almost year 1.5 marriage. At one point during our conversation this morning I asked myself- have I really downgraded myself to such a low point...
DavidUK- he might well use his lack of affection as a form of controlling... but from all these threads I realise that right now all I am doing is focusing on him. I must rewrite my goals and focus on myself. Just like you have done by losing the weight and putting the focus on yourself. It is amazing that you ar considering children with someone else other than your W.
I find the wording of your third paragraph curious. You mention blond and 34 as if they are inherently good things that should make your husband want to stay married. I think your feelings about the age difference are worth exploring with a counselor. It’s good to feel self-confident, but no one wants to be with someone who thinks they should feel lucky to be with them.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
please don't apologize or feel guilty for crying! You have feelings, you are a human, and you are entitled to them. He's entitled to his feelings as well, and you are right to validate them.
When you said you're a young blond 34 year old my natural male instincts perked right up. I'm thinking "Hey, that sounds great!" and got curious about you. Plenty of men will do the same. The fact that he's older and you want to save it doesn't mean you're downgrading. If you are letting yourself bee talked down to or hurt, then it's a downgrade.
I've been there and done that when it comes to crying and worrying about hearing the wrong song. It's no fun, but it will pass. You'll get stronger, your demons will get weaker. Take care of yourself, work on your GAL, take back your respect, and introduce a little fun into your life - you are a young blond after all!
Now there may be something to what Rose said as well, but that's for you to consider.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Yes.. just to clarify- I didn't mean me being younger and with a lighter hair colour is by any means superior, although I realise that it might sound like that. I love being with someone older and the age difference has never bothered me, and I already done counselling many years ago with full realisation and conclusion that it is to do with my own father passing away suddenly when I was 9 yo. I will always keep looking for a father figure in my husband, and it something so deep ingrained in me, also it is alright with me as long as I am well aware of it and it hasn't disturbed my life (up to this time now). When I was thinking of the low point this morning it wasn't by me being better than him or thinking that he should be lucky with me, it didn't cross my mind at all- it was more to do with the realisation that I might be wasting my time and youth (yes, my ticking clock!) by trying to convince my husband to have children with me, whatever age my husband might be.. and downgrading by being the only one to blame for the issues in the marriage and trying to convince him to say married with me- age here doesn't matter at all. All this pursuing, apologising for crying and asking to stay and work in our marriage- that's a downgrade. I never ever thought myself to be in this position and here I am doing exactly that.
Yes, I do get male attention outside home, when I was dating there were a lot fo men wanting to go out with me but the only man I fell in love with was the man I am married to now... and my H knows that because of my absolute devotion and love for him, and that is his power.. up until now.
As I haven't had any intimacy for more than a year now, it has crossed my mind to have an A.... but I don't have guts to do it .. yet. But I can honestly say in this board that I do miss a good [censored].
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
As I haven't had any intimacy for more than a year now, it has crossed my mind to have an A.... but I don't have guts to do it .. yet. But I can honestly say in this board that I do miss a good [censored].
You already know this but it would solve nothing and only further complicate things. Rather go ahead and file for D, and then after you both have moved on, then find a new guy. I can understand what you are saying, and during my sitch when there was no sex (for months before, and months after BD), my baser impulses were definitely plaguing me. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it right.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
If you are looking for a father-figure husband and you don’t want to change that, I can’t give you any advice. I have no idea how to have a healthy marriage with that dynamic.
I’m so very sorry about your dad, and I wish you the best of luck.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
I must admit that after today’s “crying in the car” release, something inside me has shifted and I am feeling better with my sitch and generally, and also looking forward to some time off without my H as he leaves tomorrow for a week. Nothing much has changed from his side but I am not worrying as much as I used to about it. I am rewriting my goals now.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
DavidUK- thank you. It is amazing how you have put yourself together and are looking forward to the future. At the moment, I feel challenging to see that. But I hope that this is just a phase. I was driving earlier today and all of the sudden there was a song on a radio and this immense sadness came like a wave - for my marriage, for my husband.. and I just drove and cried. It lasted about 10 minutes, after that I put myself together and I am feeling much better now. Maybe I just need to let it feel these feelings and allow all these emotions out (without my H seeing them).
This morning I awoke to a radio alarm and Smile by The Supernaturals was playing. It helped. I'm 2 hours from Lon Liv St if you fancy meeting for lunch for some support?
So the journey continues although nothing much has happened this week as my H is away until Sunday. He sent me two emails with the photos to which I politely replied valdating him but I haven't done any pursuing or bothered him in any other way. I also have been busy entertaining as my mother's sister (I don't like calling her my aunt because she is only 10 years older than I am) with her new bf is visiting .. they have been together for 3 months having met online, so it is lovely to see new fresh love blossoming and lovely to see her so happy. Both of them are divorced and in their 40ies which just proves that there is a life and happiness after D.
I am reading this wonderful book about Stoicism Deren Brown 'Happy' and it gives some great advice about how to manage anger and hurt, practice detachement etc... and in one page it has this very simple chart which says what we can control and what not.
So things under our control: Our Thoughts Our Actions
Things not under our control: What people think What people think of us How people behave How well people do their jobs How rude people are Other people's habits Other people's success How well other people listen to us How much our partner behaves as we wish him/her to What our partner fears or finds stressful Everything else
This pretty much sums up MWD book too- that our thoughts and our actions are the only things we can work on.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
My H returned early Sunday morning and I did my act of kindness and picked him up from a station as he requested. I did my best to stay cheerful and happy yesterday, GAL- had a coffee with a friend in the park in the morning, then went out shopping and then in early evening I went to a local church service which is rather relaxed community event. My H was grumpy and tired all day but I didn't take the bait. Before going to the church I prepared the chicken and said that he can put in the oven and I will buy the vegetables on my way back. So I happened to be away a bit longer than I initially planned- I stayed over for a chat after with other members and was home 2 hours later. He didn't greet me at all instead said angrily that he hasnt eaten whole day and was looking forward to the chicken, and I just went off and disappeared, left him to make the chicken by himself. It sounded that I am dealing with a five year old!! I just felt so wronged that he could make such a fuss out of F***ing chicken, excuse my language. It made me feel that my only job is to serve him, cook for him and if I put a foot wrong I get this form of passive agressive emotional abuse. After we had supper- which he admitted was actually alright he left to watch Tv and I dd the washing up. Then I was reduced to tears... so I had a quiet cry on my own while doing the dishes. Then I went to take my dog for a walk where I rationalised that his moods are nothing to do with me but him. It is easy to say- not to focus on him but he is infront of my eyes every single day, I wake up with him, I go to sleep with him (where he shows me a cold shoulder to my friendly- goodnight). Yes and he complained that there are no porridge oats this morning! I have no idea why I am being treated like that but I am starting to realise that I am having enough of it.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
A funny event happened yesterday when I came home from my office in a good mood after a very successful meeting. My H asked: What's wrong, why are you so happy all the time? Then we both realised the ridiculousness of these words and started to laugh. It seems that because our M is off the tracks, there is no reason for me to be happy in my H eyes. Well I can't control his moods but I am certainly to start to feel in charge of my own emotions and finding my own reasons to be happy elsewhere- whether it is the work, or good weather, or a conversation with a friend. True character building... also I have realised it helps me to grow up and I am starting to overcome some real issues from the past. My mother's sister who hasn't seen since the wedding, told me that as well when she visited last week.
Now I have decided to put more focus on starting my own business while continuing to work, and I have also enrolled to a further professional development course and want to play the piano more so I am looking for a private tutor now. That's my GAL. And it helps to reframe and refocus my mind.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
A funny event happened yesterday when I came home from my office in a good mood after a very successful meeting. My H asked: What's wrong, why are you so happy all the time? Then we both realised the ridiculousness of these words and started to laugh. It seems that because our M is off the tracks, there is no reason for me to be happy in my H eyes. Well I can't control his moods but I am certainly to start to feel in charge of my own emotions and finding my own reasons to be happy elsewhere- whether it is the work, or good weather, or a conversation with a friend. True character building... also I have realised it helps me to grow up and I am starting to overcome some real issues from the past. My mother's sister who hasn't seen since the wedding, told me that as well when she visited last week.
Now I have decided to put more focus on starting my own business while continuing to work, and I have also enrolled to a further professional development course and want to play the piano more so I am looking for a private tutor now. That's my GAL. And it helps to reframe and refocus my mind.
Good for you! This reminds me of an incident where my W acknowledged one of my 180s. Prior to BD I had been an unhappy, miserable, curmudgeon.
One day (this is documented more accurately in my threads) we were in the car and she made a funny noise. Prior to BD this would have resulted in my passively-aggressively chiding her for being silly. But this time, my new upbeat attitude (which has become second nature to me!) caused me to laugh...and then mimick the sound. She looked at me in surprise and said "who are you?" I said "What do you mean?" She said: "You used to get so annoyed at my silliness!" I said: "Yeah, I used to be that way, but now I appreciate your silliness for being fun! You are a fun girl and that makes me want to be fun too." Something to that effect. I am going by memory here.
While there was a lot more on that road trip, I honestly believe that was a turning point and went a long way towards her feeling safe to be herself around me after years of walking on eggshells! So keep it up! It takes a rare kind of person not to be influenced by the infectious nature of happiness!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Today is 3 years since I met my H... we met online, he wrote me first, he called me and we arranged a date at a local cafe, I only had 30 minutes times as I was rushing to the work. I remember it was raining, I walked in and immediately found him attractive.. we had a chat , a laugh and the rest is the history. I am feeling a bit sentimental today but trying not to let it take over. We have a dinner party today- some friends are coming over. Nothing much has changed apart from the fact that he hasn't mentioned D and seems to be in a bit better mood. I am being kind, upbeat and not making any demands, and working on GAL and keeping myself busy. Taking it one day at a time.
I remember a few months before the wedding I asked an old lady who has been married for about 40 years- what's her secret of a long and happy marriage? And she replied- patience, lots and lots of patience. I really need to live off her advice right now.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I am struggling a bit these days... still no progress, I know that patience is the key and I am not giving up yet... yesterday we went for a long walk together in the countryside with the dog, we also did that on Saturday- both things he suggested and I agreed. We had a lovely time but on the way back in the car he started to talk again about how depressed he is and how upset he is about the past. I didn't validate but I told him that he is sulking about some old stuff and it takes two to be in the relationship. He got defensive.. so overall it wasn't a god conversation and I am trying my best not to kick myself for that but learn from it and move on.
I do wonder if I need this R like it is now... and sometimes I do wonder if it is better to be on my own and be with someone who wants and desires me not sulks all the time. I am torn apart with these thoughts and really don't know what to do now. I dont want to do something I later might regret and some part of me still believes that it will be fine.... but my goodness... why does it need to be so hard.
Last edited by MrsJLS; 08/28/1806:23 AM.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
I have read here that this process is like one step backwards and two forward, and sometimes it feels like two steps back and one forward. I know there needs to be more detaching from him and on refocusing on other things/areas in my life. Some days are better than others however I do feel more in control of my own emotions than a bit more than a month ago when I started this thread. I haven't cried, I have been avoiding R talk, I have been more positive. I also know that I should put zero pursuing (no cinema trips anymore) and get out of the house more. I am going out on Friday with my single girlfriends! I wonder what else I can do to make myself feel better..
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
JLS, I usually say 1 step forward 1 step back, or 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Especially with each "slip" we make. Your first post above is why we say just listen and validate. Once you get in a tit-for-tat they will start to get defensive, start justifying. The worst part about that is it reminds them of why they want out of the R to begin with. Your goal should be to make them forget that. When they talk about the R, listen and validate. That 180 right there will make them go "Hmmmm, something is different." I know it is hard, because when they start talking about things that happened in the past YOU get defensive. But remember, each time you have a chance to react it you need to take a breath, think about what you are about to say, and ask "is this going to help me or hurt me in goals".
But yes do not beat yourself up. The key takeaway from it is to be prepared for R talks at all time with ready to LISTEN and VALIDATE. Have validation statements at the ready. One of my favorites is "You know, I never thought about it that way before, thanks for that perspective." Notice, validation statements are not agreeing or disagreeing with what they are saying, but merely showing them you empathize. The beauty of this is that there is no back-and-forth, he said, she said. Just a "I understand how you feel." And then move on. They feel like they were heard and you've done no damage to the R.
Hang in there, keep GAL and 180ing. And detach.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve85 - thank you so much for your kind words. I am literally hanging on there. I have been looking for some inspiration outside this website and found some youtube clips by Brian Nox- it applies more to the dating world but can be used for the marriage too. The biggest takeaway for me was this- "the person who needs less intimacy is the one who controls the relationship". He talks in a very straightforward language and says that if the other person ignores us, it simply means- they don't care for us. So therefore we don't need to go or do anything to make them need me more. Instead the best thing is spend time with people who appreciate me more than they do. So far I let my H control the relationship so I have to detach, disconnect from needing him, make him to be on his own and create sufficient space between us... so I don't need the validation from him to be my own person. Once this mindset will sink in, I believe that I will be on the right path for my own good.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
That is very true. I've always heard it put "the one that loves least controls the relationship" but is is a similar concept.
And you are on the right track! I love seeing someone switch from "I am DBing to get my S back" to "I am DBing to get myself back!" Your last paragraph shows you are headed there. Well done.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Well, that didn't take long. I am noticing some changes already... Yesterday I had a celebration (not a birthday) and he gave me a card- on the envelope was written- Mrs..., and in the card- My Wife... signed- All Love xxx .... He also took me out to a concert and gave me flowers, kiss etc. Funny things happen when you least expect it. Now I dont want to give my love and attention at all despite this stuff he did yesterday... but I am nice and friendly, and busy.
These are some quotes I found from the guy I mentioned yesterday, it might help some other 'LBW' out there. Maybe some of these apply to the guys as well.: "When a woman turns her entire life around her guy, it gives him some form of claustrophobia." "He should always be the one chasing you and showing his interest in you, not the other way around." "Always be prepared to walk away when the relationship is not giving you what you want or deserve. That said, try to have realistic expectations." "And this is not just linked to men. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to stay with a guy who continuously needs to be reassured that you still love him, like him, are fond of him, etc." "You simply ignore him. You become less available, take longer to return his phone calls, have more important things to do than be available all the time. (You never should be available all the time anyway.)" "Men will always treat you the way you allow them to. They cannot respect a woman more than she respects herself."
And probably the most important: "Don’t request or expect something from him that he doesn’t want to give you on his own."
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Nothing to record as such... I have calmed down a great deal and really GAL so being very busy. No big changes in M but I am feeling very good about myself and my life.
W34 H61 M1 T3 June-H said he wants divorce but hasn't filed. Living and sleeping in the same bed, no intimacy from H side for last 12 months.
Nothing to record as such... I have calmed down a great deal and really GAL so being very busy. No big changes in M but I am feeling very good about myself and my life.
You are well on your way! Well done.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
