Is It Too Late?

[WillD78]

Second women are logical but people in crisis are not

Thank you. You're right. I didn't intend to paint all women as illogical. Apologies to anyone who I may have offended. That was not my intention.

Remember actions speak a lot louder than words

She signed a lease but has not moved out

She says ILYBNILWY but has not filed for d

All good points that I need to remember. Thank you.

You should see a lawyer to know your rights re custody and finances

Do not initiate that discussion but you should be prepared for it

I spoke to an attorney last week. I have a roadmap for if/when she files. I don't like all of what the attorney told me, but I am very comfortable with executing the plan if I have to.

Now tell us what are you doing to improve you as a man for yourself first and hopefully down the road for a new relationship

More on this in my next post. Thanks so much.

[WillD78]

D78 - sorry you find yourself here - its an awful place to be; I hope you find comfort in the fact that you are not alone and your story is incredibly familiar.

The words and behaviours you see and hear are exactly the same; I could have written your story myself; seriously - every last detail. I can relate to every single aspect of what you have written, to the word.

Expect it to get a lot worse before it gets better; please don't blame yourself; you could never have predicted this was going to happen; its only human to desperately hold onto your life that you feel is slipping away from you.

I have been at this for over 18months - I think my marriage is over; she wants a divorce; I still think its not too late and neither should you; keep going; spend time with your kids, do things for yourself, leave your wife alone; you cant solve her crisis; and it is a crisis brought on by bereavement and miscarriage and a lack of coping strategy.

Its not a great place to be, but its about trying to weather the storm, not trying to fix it. Easier said than done sometimes.

Thanks so much for your words and support. I will keep this in mind.

[WillD78]

Thanks so much for your specific comments and advice.

All very damaging behavior. This just makes you look desperate and needy and that is VERY unattractive, especially to a WAS. I assume now that you've found DB'ing that this has stopped?

Yes. I am 100 percent done with this.

What are the boundaries and what are the consequences if she doesn't comply? A lot of new DB'ers get this totally wrong so It's important to discuss this ASAP.

Right now the only boundary I have set is that I will not let my W put me in an awkward place with my children. For instance, I went home for lunch on Friday. I know I shouldn't have, but my Ds asked me to come home, so I caved. When I got there, W said she needed to run to the store to pick up one item. She was gone for nearly 45 minutes -- the trip to the store and back should have taken 15 mins -- and my Ds were asking where she was. She didn't tell me so, but I had a suspicion that she went to her new place for some reason. I didn't know what to tell my Ds when they asked where mommy is. I told them she went to the store and they would have to ask mommy what she was doing when she got back.

When she finally returned, I was angry at her for lying to me. I later realized that I wasn't angry at the lies, but for the way she made me have to cover for her to our children. So that is my boundary. Later that evening I told my W that she doesn't need to tell me where she is going or what she is doing, but that I will not put up with her disappearing like that and not telling our girls. If it happens again, we will not sit at home and wait for her to return.

Good. Let her go. Separation will help you detach and help her realize that maybe you're not the source of all her problems after all. And quit asking for details. No R talk, EVER.

I'm over talking R. I will not ever initiate those talks. W showed emotion without me showing it first for the first time on Friday, nearly crying and telling me that she is doing her best. I wondered if she is having second thoughts. Perhaps so, perhaps not. I really wanted to say something like, "It's not too late. If you are having second thoughts, we can work this out. You don't have to move just because you signed the lease." But I was strong. I just looked at her and listened and said, "I know you're doing your best." It was hard for me, but I felt like I had accomplished something big for myself when the urge to comfort, help, and fix finally passed.

We have some absolutely brilliant, amazing women right here on these forums. Many of them have WAH's that have seemingly lost their minds. So this isn't a "woman" think, it's a walkaway spouse thing.

I didn't intend to paint all women as illogical. I apologize. W has always been more of an emotional decision maker. That is what meant to communicate here. I'm sorry to anyone who I may have offended by writing so carelessly.

Yes try to do things with the girls and involve your W less. And try to do things on your own. Get out and GAL. Meet new people. Don't shirk your dad responsibilities, but do try to get out more.

I am beginning to do this. Started late last week and continued through this weekend.

Oh yes indeed. She is 100% done and can't stand to be in the same bed, room or even house as you right now. That doesn't mean she'll still feel that way in 6 months or a year or 2 years or whatever. She changed her mind about you, but what makes you think she can't change it back again?

This was difficult to read, but I needed to hear it.

Thank you so much for your wise words and support.

[WillD78]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read my sitch and offer comments. It's really appreciated.

This was an interesting and difficult yet enjoyable weekend.On Friday evening I told my wife that I was thinking about taking our Ds out to dinner, as we did not have plans or food to cook. She was quiet and reserved and I could see tears welling in her eyes. This is not normal for her. She has not shown much emotion around me since BD. I asked her if she was OK. She said yes, and looked away. That was that.

I got the girls ready for dinner and -- was this a mistake? -- I asked W if she was going to come with us. Thinking about the rules "... it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go." I thought this might have been OK. Anyway, she said, "I thought you were just taking the girls." I told her she was welcome to come. She asked me if I wanted her to go. I told her: "It's up to you. We're going." Ultimately she decided to join us. Did I handle this correctly?

That evening, after the girls were in bed, she left to go to her new place to do some cleaning. I settled in on the couch and started watching a movie. When she returned she said she was going to get ready for bed and then come back to the living room to have a drink and, presumably, join me on the couch and watch a movie. When she came back downstairs, I was tired and ready for bed. So I said goodnight and went to bed. This seemed to take her by surprise.

On Saturday, I got up early (I usually sleep in a bit on the weekends), got dressed in my new clothes, and told the girls I was going out for some daddy time and I would be back in an hour or so. I went to my favorite diner and had breakfast, then did some shopping for some things I need around the house, and went to a farmer's market. This is part of my 180. I would typically never do these things on my own and it set the stage for a nice day.

We spent some time together as a family and with friends at a local pool. As much as possible, I interacted with my kids and let my W initiate all interactions with me. That evening I cooked dinner for the family -- still pretending for kids' sake at this point -- and then had a buddy come over. He and I sat out back and had a couple of beers while my wife was inside with the girls.

That evening, she again went to her new place to continue preparing it for the move. I let this get the best of me, and it really made me mad. When she returned, I again excused myself to bed, but I couldn't sleep. When she came to bed about an hour later, I asked her why she was still here. Why is she sleeping in our bed. I told her to get out. I was rude. She slept on the couch. Perhaps this was a good thing, but the way I handled it was not good. I apologized in the morning, not for kicking her out, but for the way I did it. I slipped here and I admit it. Will get better.

On Sunday I began demo of our half bath, a rehab project that we have been putting off for about two years. I stayed busy and made some progress. I then took the girls shopping for new shoes and had a lunch date with them while W did some grocery shopping and housework. Given the poor night's rest the night before, I took a nap on the couch during the afternoon. Are DBers allowed to nap?

My folks invited us over for dinner last night. W knew I was going and taking the girls, but we had not discussed her attendance. Shortly before we left, I asked her if she was going to go. "I would like to, is that OK?" she said. "Yes," I replied. We had a lovely meal with my family and the girls enjoyed some playtime with their cousins. Nothing to report here, I suppose.

Another 180 I'm making is saying "yes" to friends and family. In the past, I would almost always turn down invitations for activities in favor of spending more time with my W and the kids. This weekend I was invited to go bike riding with two of my D7's friends' fathers. I initially wanted to turn down the invitation, but I accepted. Our plans were canceled due to weather, but it's on the agenda for this week. I'm also working to stay more active and doing things on my own. I have a round of golf scheduled for later this week as well. W is definitely curious about these new activities.

Twice in the past week, since I started implementing the rules and DB strategies, my wife has told me that I look nice. She hasn't done that since BD, except when it was forced upon us by our MC over the winter. I know I shouldn't read into this, and I'm trying not to, but it is a curious development. Yesterday, she looked exceptionally beautiful, and I told her that. Is it OK to pay her compliments like this?

Thanks, again, for all of your help and support. I was moved to tears reading your feedback over the weekend.

[Eryam]

You are doing SO great! Those are all the right moves. Yes, you slipped up once, but you caught yourself, and you owned it. Keep doing what you're doing!

[Cadet]

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

[AnotherStander]

When she finally returned, I was angry at her for lying to me.

If I'm reading correctly then you really don't know if she lied or not. She said she was running to the store. Did she say it would take 15 minutes or did you just assume that? My W could never go in a store and buy one thing and walk out, too many distractions. 45 minutes doesn't sound that long to me. Here's the thing, if you are going to embrace DB'ing then you have got to quit letting little things like this get to you. DETACH. Give her TIME and SPACE. That means not concerning yourself with where she is every second of the day. She wants breathing room and you've got to give it to her. If she wants to take her time at the store then let her. You go about YOUR life and let her live hers.

Later that evening I told my W that she doesn't need to tell me where she is going or what she is doing, but that I will not put up with her disappearing like that and not telling our girls. If it happens again, we will not sit at home and wait for her to return.

But she was only gone for 45 minutes? I could understand if she said she was going to the store and disappeared for 6 hours, but I think you're making a big deal out of nothing in this case. She feels trapped in a M she doesn't want and you've got to "open the cage door". Telling her it's not acceptable to be gone for 45 minutes is just going to make her feel more caged-in, right?

I'm over talking R. I will not ever initiate those talks. W showed emotion without me showing it first for the first time on Friday, nearly crying and telling me that she is doing her best. I wondered if she is having second thoughts.

No, it's far too soon for that. You will see things like this now and then, it is NOT regret, simply some feelings of guilt and frustration. She still thinks she's justified in ending the M though. You've got to see this from her CURRENT point of view, her entire mindset has changed and you don't know this new W yet.

I really wanted to say something like, "It's not too late. If you are having second thoughts, we can work this out. You don't have to move just because you signed the lease." But I was strong.

Be patient and take a long-term view. Don't temperature check because you're never going to hear what you want to hear. It's going to be quite a while before she might start changing her mind about the M. Don't read meaning into her emotional moments.

This was an interesting and difficult yet enjoyable weekend.On Friday evening I told my wife that I was thinking about taking our Ds out to dinner, as we did not have plans or food to cook. She was quiet and reserved and I could see tears welling in her eyes. This is not normal for her. She has not shown much emotion around me since BD. I asked her if she was OK. She said yes, and looked away. That was that. I got the girls ready for dinner and -- was this a mistake? -- I asked W if she was going to come with us. Thinking about the rules "... it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go." I thought this might have been OK. Anyway, she said, "I thought you were just taking the girls." I told her she was welcome to come. She asked me if I wanted her to go. I told her: "It's up to you. We're going." Ultimately she decided to join us. Did I handle this correctly?

There are going to be awkward situations like this that come up. Try to remember that it took her months or even years to become a WAW and no one thing you do is going to bring her back or send her away for good. You've got to show her a different you consistently over a long period of time. So don't sweat little stuff like this too much as in the long run it doesn't really affect things. I think you handled it fine though. Most WAS's want to continue acting like a family right up until they move out, that's when things change quite a bit.

Yesterday, she looked exceptionally beautiful, and I told her that. Is it OK to pay her compliments like this?

Have you read the 7 Love Languages? A lot of women have WoA as their primary language, but even if she doesn't it's probably high on her list. Read that chapter for ideas on how to offer WoA without it being sexual. It needs to be specific as well, not just generic compliments. One example might be that if she's helping one of your daughters with homework you might mention how impressed you are at how patient she is with the girls, that sort of thing. While DB'ing you don't want to go too heavy on physical compliments, so look for ways to compliment her work skills, or crafts, cooking, etc.

[ovrrnbw]

AnotherStander,

I'm just going to clarify this, I know it was a mistake but I got a lot of lols out of it.

It's called 5 Love Languages.. . Teehee

I think it's OK to tell the wife you won't lie to cover for her (to your kids), but going to the store and being gone 45 minutes seems reasonable to me.

[WillD78]

If I'm reading correctly then you really don't know if she lied or not. She said she was running to the store. Did she say it would take 15 minutes or did you just assume that? My W could never go in a store and buy one thing and walk out, too many distractions. 45 minutes doesn't sound that long to me. Here's the thing, if you are going to embrace DB'ing then you have got to quit letting little things like this get to you. DETACH. Give her TIME and SPACE. That means not concerning yourself with where she is every second of the day. She wants breathing room and you've got to give it to her. If she wants to take her time at the store then let her. You go about YOUR life and let her live hers.

But she was only gone for 45 minutes? I could understand if she said she was going to the store and disappeared for 6 hours, but I think you're making a big deal out of nothing in this case. She feels trapped in a M she doesn't want and you've got to "open the cage door". Telling her it's not acceptable to be gone for 45 minutes is just going to make her feel more caged-in, right?

Fair points. I admit that I didn't handle this correctly. In my defense, though, I have an hour break from work for lunch. W knows this. It's routine that she will occasionally run out and get a coffee or make a quick trip to the store when I am home for lunch. It takes me 15 minutes to get home and 15 minutes to drive back to the office, which leaves me 30 minutes at home. If she had taken a longer trip out when getting back to work wasn't an issue, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. Looking back, I think I felt that she was taking advantage of my time and not respecting my schedule. Either way, if it happens again, I'll just let it slide. I see now that it did me no good to get upset over it.

Be patient and take a long-term view. Don't temperature check because you're never going to hear what you want to hear. It's going to be quite a while before she might start changing her mind about the M. Don't read meaning into her emotional moments.

Thanks for the reminder. I was pretty proud of myself for holding back in this scenario.

So don't sweat little stuff like this too much as in the long run it doesn't really affect things. I think you handled it fine though. Most WAS's want to continue acting like a family right up until they move out, that's when things change quite a bit.

Thanks for the affirmation. I would love for her to start feeling the consequences of separation before she moves out, but it is a tricky and delicate sitch with the children.

One example might be that if she's helping one of your daughters with homework you might mention how impressed you are at how patient she is with the girls, that sort of thing. While DB'ing you don't want to go too heavy on physical compliments, so look for ways to compliment her work skills, or crafts, cooking, etc.

This is great advice that I will implement. Thank you. I guess that's another book I'll have to read when I finish DR.

Appreciate your support and perspective!

[sandi2]

The most confusing part for me is that we get along great. We talk. We laugh. We enjoy each other's company. We don't fight. We are a team. We are friends. Why does she refuse to work on us? Is it cake-eating?

She friend-zoned you a long time ago. The two of you get along and work as a team, but she doesn't think of you as a lover. She doesn't feel the attraction. Once she moves out, she'll probably still expect to continue doing things as a family (yes, it's cake eating). She'll probably still turn to you as a friend (more cake). She just won't desire you as a man.

My folks invited us over for dinner last night. W knew I was going and taking the girls, but we had not discussed her attendance. Shortly before we left, I asked her if she was going to go. "I would like to, is that OK?" she said. "Yes," I replied. We had a lovely meal with my family and the girls enjoyed some playtime with their cousins. Nothing to report here, I suppose.

Do your folks, or anyone, know that she is leaving you? As long as you continue to include her in family events, nothing changes for her. She'll expect to be included in holiday celebrations, family traditions, etc. So, she will get all the benefits of being M to you, without any of the responsibilities. She can join in the part she likes and then go back to her place.