Advice on my Scenario Pt. 17-Off Belay!

[NicoleR]

OrangeK, seems your wife hasn't matured or grown in any way. I'm curious to know if the conversation you had about OM is ok within the TRO? I hope so. It sounds like there's not much to gain by trying to talk to your wife although it sounds good to be clear about your disapproval of OM sleeping with your son. Your son will be proud and appreciate that you were looking out for him someday. Right now he's too young to defend himself but you're doing that for him. I think that's admirable and you're being a great father.

[SteveLW]

OK, I was on my phone with my initial response so here are some additional thoughts.

I get not liking your S3 sharing a bed with OM. That would infuriate me. I'd see if there is anything you can do legally. Of course she is playing coy about it so it is you and yours son's word against hers. But as Nicole said, some day your son will now the truth and you he will admire you for being the dad you are.

I think this conversation proves how attached you still are emotionally. I know there was a lot of pent up emotion from the TRO and NC for so long. But always keep the great goal in mind here: detachment. I think we LBHs often lose sight of the goal, especially in the moment.

As you rightfully detected, you didn't get straight answers from her. And likely you never will. Habitual liars never tell the truth. WASs hardly ever tell the truth. the combination of the two means you have as much chance of getting the truth from her as you would getting her to blow gold out of her nose. So the question then is: why bother?

Talking to her delays detachment. Talking to her doesn't get you the truth. Talking to her puts you in jeopardy of violating the TRO. (Remember, MiL already accused of you of violating the TRO, so it appears that they are out to get you on that.) So the question is, was there any value gained? You referred to it as a cheeseless tunnel yourself.

OK you know we are here for you. Can I suggest in the future to post here first asking if it is a good idea? Maybe discussing with the board what your goal with the discussion would be? Whether or not there is a chance you will achieve those goals?

You were so good in dealing with Nutcrac in his thread, yet you completely ignored your own advice. Remember, this conversation was pressure and pursuit. We don't like to view it that way but your STBXW came away from the conversation KNOWING you are still attached.

So hang in there man, this stuff is tough. Though you often post that as if you have this, I think admitting to yourself that you do not might go further. We are here to support you, to hit you with 2x4s, to encourage you, and to hopefully help you see the correct path to navigate through this.

P.S. See why we advised you against dating? There will be plenty of time for that post D. It is not to your advantage right now. I also question why you would use social media to "advertise" that you were dating. Was it to make sure she knew about it?

[OrangeK]

OK, I was on my phone with my initial response so here are some additional thoughts.

I get not liking your S3 sharing a bed with OM. That would infuriate me. I'd see if there is anything you can do legally. Of course she is playing coy about it so it is you and yours son's word against hers. But as Nicole said, some day your son will now the truth and you he will admire you for being the dad you are.

I think this conversation proves how attached you still are emotionally. I know there was a lot of pent up emotion from the TRO and NC for so long. But always keep the great goal in mind here: detachment. I think we LBHs often lose sight of the goal, especially in the moment.

I agree the NC and TRO had me pent up, that is what i released yesterday. It was the clot that was preventing detachment. I needed to hear from her, now that it has been months since we spoke about anything, that she still held the same delusional beliefs, like that i was emotionally abusive, or bitter and un-supportive. This is all projection and blameshifting on her part.

As you rightfully detected, you didn't get straight answers from her. And likely you never will. Habitual liars never tell the truth. WASs hardly ever tell the truth. the combination of the two means you have as much chance of getting the truth from her as you would getting her to blow gold out of her nose. So the question then is: why bother?

you are right, but the length of time with no discussion about it, after having been gas-lighted to believe that all of this was my fault. I presented one last opportunity for her to be honest, admit what happened and aknowladge that she left me for another man.
She denied all of this. It was the affirmation that she is not going to budge from her position of self implied innocence and guiltlessness.

Talking to her delays detachment. Talking to her doesn't get you the truth. Talking to her puts you in jeopardy of violating the TRO. (Remember, MiL already accused of you of violating the TRO, so it appears that they are out to get you on that.) So the question is, was there any value gained? You referred to it as a cheeseless tunnel yourself.

I very carefully worded my messages yesterday so that they were all still about S3, there could be no violation of TRO based off the messages i sent.
The value gained was confirmation and affirmation.
The way my mind works, i needed this confirmation of the situation before i truly dedicated 100% of my mental and emotional efforts on myself. The emphatic portion of me wouldn't let go of this "Shes sick and needs help, if you reach out she may respond. She is scared and confused" mentality. I needed to know that she wasnt just hiding her shame and embarrassment behind a veil of bravado.
She proved to me that she is not embarrassed, as she truly believes or at least projects viamently, the fact that she is totally innocent and I am to blame 100%. Which shouldnt have surprised me as that is the same story she sold me about her 2 previous EX's when her and I started dating.

OK you know we are here for you. Can I suggest in the future to post here first asking if it is a good idea? Maybe discussing with the board what your goal with the discussion would be? Whether or not there is a chance you will achieve those goals?

I would post in the future, if i planned on ever discussing anything beyond S3 with her ever again. But i dont. If the fit takes me, i will check in here before corresponding with her, but i do not anticipate that happening.

You were so good in dealing with Nutcrac in his thread, yet you completely ignored your own advice. Remember, this conversation was pressure and pursuit. We don't like to view it that way but your STBXW came away from the conversation KNOWING you are still attached.

Guilty as charged, 100%. Strange how it seems to easy to give sound advice, but when it comes to your own sitch, that stuff flies right out the window!
Why would you say she came away thinking (knowing?) i am still attached?
I discussed having moved on, and that ive been dating other people. At which point she proceeded to lay down about 4 rules for me about dating, which i found terribly amusing as she followed none of them herself when dating OM.
Same about my living situation, she asked several questions about that too, as if she is the dictator of some unwritten rule book.

So hang in there man, this stuff is tough. Though you often post that as if you have this, I think admitting to yourself that you do not might go further. We are here to support you, to hit you with 2x4s, to encourage you, and to hopefully help you see the correct path to navigate through this.

I will admit that i DID NOT have it, i wont say that i do 100% now, but what i will say is, watch the next few weeks. saying I am all set is profitless, id rather just prove it.

P.S. See why we advised you against dating? There will be plenty of time for that post D. It is not to your advantage right now. I also question why you would use social media to "advertise" that you were dating. Was it to make sure she knew about it?

Amusingly, the photo from my Facebook she referred to about me dating was from a dinner i went to with my brother and his wife before a concert back in May.
When she asked about this she said "Would i be wrong in assuming that that photo is from when you were supposed to go to your parents with S3, and you said plans changed?"
I said "yes, you would be incorrect in assuming that"
WIFE: "So you didnt go on some date that night that you had said you were going with S3 to your parents?" (For the record i NEVER said i was going to my parents that week, she just made that assumption herself, and then got angry when I didnt do what she had assumed i would)
ME: "No WIFE, I did not. I went to dinner after dropping S3 with my parents"
WIFE: "So You arent dating anyone?"
ME: "I am, but it wasn't from that night"
WIFE: "Oh well im glad your dating, i hope that brings you some happiness and fulfillment in your life. I know you need that.
However i do hope that you arent putting S3 2nd to date, you need to think about the impact on him it might have"
ME: "I will, that is something we both need to consider"
WIFE: "I have considered that, and S3 is fine"
then we went back into the discussion about bed-sharing.
where i said "I havent even introduced S3 to who ive been seeing, let alone had a sleepover and CERTAINLY not sharing a bed. But i trust you will respect that boundary in the future. Goodbye"

[OrangeK]

Steve, here are some other points.

Clearly WIFE has been keeping tabs, if im sooooo awful, why? this is funny to me.

Same with the "Driving anxiety" from Saturday where she needed directions to meet up with my parents.
OM was driving, she had GPS, so why reach out if not to keep attached?

Here is the $1,000,000 question. Why, if the LBH is SO AWFUL AND DETESTABLE, does the WAW/WW/PDW insist on little actions to keep the LBH attached, but will shout how they need to get away from LBH and how awful they are from the rooftops?

Interesting that she has so many rules to lay out to me regarding dating, and living arrangements for me, that are all directly in violation of everything she has done since April of last year. the hypocrisy is astounding.

-----------------------------------

Steve, here is what feels so profoundly different than any other milestone or point ive reached in my separation from PDWife, for the first time, i truly DO NOT CARE what she thinks of me.
Up to this point previously, everything i did, said or thought was heavily to mildly spiced with "What will SHE think if i do this? what will she say if i say this? What will her reaction be if i post this or say that?"

Yesterday what i said and asked her was for ME. I realized during that conversation, I dont care what her reaction is anymore. Her reaction is always skewed, misinformed and bias, so why would i give a dusty fart what she thinks anymore?

The beauty of it all?
I dont.
It took way longer than it should have, but yesterday gave me one simple, solid realization.
She never cared, if she ever thought she did, she was fooling herself.
I dont want to R anymore, I embrace and look forward to finalizing D.
I am done, and I wont sit here sand say it feels great, or I am all hard charged with motivation.

This feels more, real, than other times ive ridden a "high".
this feels like cruise control, not going from flat tire to 120mph.
this feels natural. clean.

[OrangeK]

OrangeK, seems your wife hasn't matured or grown in any way. I'm curious to know if the conversation you had about OM is ok within the TRO? I hope so. It sounds like there's not much to gain by trying to talk to your wife although it sounds good to be clear about your disapproval of OM sleeping with your son. Your son will be proud and appreciate that you were looking out for him someday. Right now he's too young to defend himself but you're doing that for him. I think that's admirable and you're being a great father.

She has not. She never did really Nicole, she is emotionally stuck at age 8.
See my reply to Steve about the Convo and how it can relate to the TRO. I was careful to word my messages to always be about S3, but still got in my questions and info.
You are right, nothing to gain from speaking to her, and I am SO GLAD i did yesterday, but it provided all i needed. No need to approach her again.
I know S3 already sees who is there for him.
I know im a great dad, thank you.
Both He and I had no say in his conception or birth, but we are a team, and we will always have each other.

I have always said my son will be "A champion of the Human Race"
I aim to do all i can to provide what he needs to be that.

He is the real hero.

[SteveLW]

Why would you say she came away thinking (knowing?) i am still attached?
I discussed having moved on, and that ive been dating other people. At which point she proceeded to lay down about 4 rules for me about dating, which i found terribly amusing as she followed none of them herself when dating OM.
Same about my living situation, she asked several questions about that too, as if she is the dictator of some unwritten rule book.

I think you answered your own question. The fact she was "laying down the law" to you suggests that she feels she still holds sway over you. Kind of like you will just do it because she said it. Obviously you have detached enough to not feel obligated by her demands, but the fact that she had rules for you suggests she feels she still has you by the nose, and that you would take her back at the drop of the hat.

Note, this is the opposite of what you want her to believe. She should believe that even if she came crawling back to you on her hands and knees you'd tell her to kick rocks.

On dating, it just complicates things. I think a better answer to her question would have been: "That is none of your business." or "You are asking me questions as if you are still me W. You aren't."

Name. Rank. Serial number. Don't lie, but don't divulge things that aren't her business. I think you still are attached in the fact that I think you took great pleasure in answering her inquiry with a "yes". If you were properly detached then one of the answers of above would have sufficed. (Yes I know she THINKS she has a right to the answer based on S3, but she doesn't.)

OK, get back on that detachment horse! We all fall off. I was terrible at it for the first 2 1/2 months of my sitch. Thanks to the 2x4s and great advice from posters here I was finally able to get better at it.

[Ginger1]

I can take a good guess why she is keeping tabs.

because she is sneaky and wants to use something against you.

I would be super careful about what you post and how much business you decide to tell her. If you are dating and S3 is not involved, don't tell her. None of her business.

[OrangeK]

Ginger,

I am in full Batman mode now.

I took down my IG page. I havent posted on FB in about a week and dont plan to, about anything.

I have reduced my vocabulary to the following after yesterday.

"Where, When, How, S3 Bills, S3 School, Yes, No, We'll See and Ok"

I also blocked her Cell # and told her to use email moving forward.

[SteveLW]

Steve, here are some other points.

Clearly WIFE has been keeping tabs, if im sooooo awful, why? this is funny to me.

Same with the "Driving anxiety" from Saturday where she needed directions to meet up with my parents.
OM was driving, she had GPS, so why reach out if not to keep attached?

Here is the $1,000,000 question. Why, if the LBH is SO AWFUL AND DETESTABLE, does the WAW/WW/PDW insist on little actions to keep the LBH attached, but will shout how they need to get away from LBH and how awful they are from the rooftops?

Interesting that she has so many rules to lay out to me regarding dating, and living arrangements for me, that are all directly in violation of everything she has done since April of last year. the hypocrisy is astounding.

-----------------------------------

Steve, here is what feels so profoundly different than any other milestone or point ive reached in my separation from PDWife, for the first time, i truly DO NOT CARE what she thinks of me.
Up to this point previously, everything i did, said or thought was heavily to mildly spiced with "What will SHE think if i do this? what will she say if i say this? What will her reaction be if i post this or say that?"

Yesterday what i said and asked her was for ME. I realized during that conversation, I dont care what her reaction is anymore. Her reaction is always skewed, misinformed and bias, so why would i give a dusty fart what she thinks anymore?

The beauty of it all?
I dont.
It took way longer than it should have, but yesterday gave me one simple, solid realization.
She never cared, if she ever thought she did, she was fooling herself.
I dont want to R anymore, I embrace and look forward to finalizing D.
I am done, and I wont sit here sand say it feels great, or I am all hard charged with motivation.

This feels more, real, than other times ive ridden a "high".
this feels like cruise control, not going from flat tire to 120mph.
this feels natural. clean.

Just saw this OK.

On why she wants to keep you attached? Control. WASs are notorious for wanting to keep control of an attached LBS. Why? Lots of reasons but mainly because deep down humans like power, and control gives them that sense (of power).

There is also what Ginger said. Her and her mom have already showed that they are willing to trap you in order to get an advantage in custody proceedings. So be careful.

As far as you not caring anymore, that is a great sign! I would caution you on being too confident on that. You know the roller-coaster better than most. And your willingness to tell her yes on dating, as I stated above, is a red flag. But I hope this is real OK, that would be huge for you emotionally.

[TBSakaJ9]

OK - My EW was very chatty with me on Saturday at my daughters soccer game. She was talking about her and I opening up some drive through drug store together. Then she started joking around making sexual remarks. I believe mine does it as manipulation so when she needs me to be flexible with my schedule to assist with the kids I will be more available.

She has no desire to recon and I don't have any desire to recon with her just don't let your guard down as the other have suggested. Don't let her lull you into sleep and you end up making a wrong move. That is why it is so important early on to limit your interactions, don't poke the bear, and be on your best behavior especially with the RO still in place.