Moving past the WAW to a stronger me Pt. 2

[Benito]

Hello,

I have been away from the board for a while and have just had a catch up on your situation.

One thing that comes across in your posts, is how similar of a pattern these stages and interactions are after a breakup.

I could have used the words you are using myself.

So as someone who threw themselves into this process not so long ago myself, and was able to improve my life - which led to my wife returning.. I offer you this advice.

I have spoken many times to my wife about certain things we spoke about when she left. Such as, when she sent a message with a heart on or called me a pet name for example. For me at the time it was something to hang onto. In truth, by her own admission, romantically she was done for a months before she left, and her actions where to make the split easier by being smiley and friendly and saying she still loved me etc.. but in the end the outcome is same. Its over. And we convince ourselves it isn't.

Please do not read into every situation. Which it seems from your posts that is what you are doing. She is being nice to you and using pet names, more than likely because she feels guilty because she loves you. But in the long run the aim is let you down gradually.

Your nicely worded messages of thanks are pleasant at best, but will not have any bearing on the outcome of this situation.

The only thing that is going put you in the general direction of potentially resolving this situation is you stopping interacting with her in this manner, and to truly accept that some of your behaviour is to entice a reaction from her.

i.e. telling her you have learned a lot from the trip.. if you are honest with yourself - telling her that, is your true message of ... i have changed.

You hope she will think.. Maybe Davide has changed, maybe it can be different this time?

I understand how hard this is. The reason I am spending 30 mins of my time typing this is because (despite how unique you think your love with your wife was) its no different to 90% of the rest of us here.

At the end of all this I have no doubt things will be good for you - but at the moment despite your best efforts, I would advise to stop doing anything that is used either consciously or subconsciously to get a reaction from your wife.

It is only hurting you in the long run pal.

[Davide]

Benito,

First, thanks for responding and in such detail. I think you are spot on that I want her to see my changes because I feel they are real and positive. I am preparing myself for life without her and now know that I can handle that but I certainly dont want it. Nor do I want to be controlling in my words. However apart from learning a lot on the trip what else is objectionable? I want to validate and respond in a friendly manner. How can I do that without implicitly trying to get a reaction out of her? Not responding or responding totally business like sends it own message which I dont think I want either.

[Maika]

I would take Eric's advice on how to respond. He has already kinda framed your responses and use that and tweak it. Keep it pleasant and short. Validate her. I wouldn't 'thank' her for anything, but I like how Eric used the word 'grateful', which I think is more appropriate. I stopped thanking language a long time ago and it was really helpful.

I also wouldn't send her any pics. She can see on IG right? So, let that be.

Also, what Benito wrote is spot-on.

[Davide]

Benito,

Your message hit me like a sack of bricks.

Honestly, I have been feeling better over the past few days. I was spending time with friends on my trip and was really able to enjoy myself without so much anxiety or thinking about the R. It had been less and less present in my mind. Even after getting the message from the W - that shook me a bit, but I recovered quickly. I also thought that it was a positive step to acknowledge my emotions upon receiving it, rather than trying to lie to myself, repress them, and tell myself I am fully detached emotionally. In fact, on the 6 hours I spent driving this morning I was in a great mood. I was singing along whole-heartedly to music as I drove, even enjoying a good cry as I heard a Beatles song that spoke to me. It felt good.

And then I got your message and I felt like such a failure. It is not a critique of the message but its impact on me. It made me think and stew about it the rest of the day (I drove another 7 hours). I think that it really hurt me because I have been taking pride in the way that I have been handling things. I have given my W all the time and space she wants as I have almost never initiated contact in the last two months. I have worked long and hard on myself, both critically and compassionately. I have instituted 180s in my life (eliminating negative self talk is a big one), I have meditated, read voraciously, and worked hard with an IC. I have GALed more than I would have thought possible. I have gotten myself into the best physical condition of my life and embarked on the most ambitious trip of my life - reconnecting with friends and family along the way. And nearly everyone I speak with, from my parents, to my friends, to my therapist constantly remark on how well I am doing, how I am handling this so well.

And your message was not just a splash of cold water, but full-on submerging into the Arctic ocean. I felt clueless and lost, and like I have not learned anything over the past 2-3 months. Not because it was wrong, but because it cut deeply at what I thought I was doing well.

A few questions and comments:

One thing that comes across in your posts, is how similar of a pattern these stages and interactions are after a breakup.

Perhaps this is due to my own blinders, but I dont see this much on the forum, and it is one of the reasons I read up on your sitch. There is so much vitriol, resentment, anger, and craziness in most of the sitches, so I struggle at times to find parallels to my own.

Please do not read into every situation. Which it seems from your posts that is what you are doing. She is being nice to you and using pet names, more than likely because she feels guilty because she loves you. But in the long run the aim is let you down gradually.

Guilty as charged. I struggle not to read into things, at the least I can recognize when I am doing it now. As far as her being out on the relationship for real. I get it. I dont fool myself there. I accept that it is over, but I also know that I do still long to share my journey with her. Do I need to completely let that go as well?

Your nicely worded messages of thanks are pleasant at best, but will not have any bearing on the outcome of this situation.

The only thing that is going put you in the general direction of potentially resolving this situation is you stopping interacting with her in this manner, and to truly accept that some of your behaviour is to entice a reaction from her.

I think this is the crux of the situation for me. I simply do not understand how I am supposed to interact with her. I get that I should not be trying to elicit a reaction from her. I get that I should not be trying to control the situation. I also get that I shouldnt be angry. I shouldnt be cold or distant. So for me the question is what is the manner that I should be interacting with her? I thought that I was doing a great job in my interactions previously, but it seems like that isnt the case so I am completely confused. I have consistently been positive, avoided R talk, validated her, listened and been friendly. I left our in-person interactions feeling very happy with them, but now I am left doubting everything.

The actual message that I sent out did not include the part about learning a lot on my trip. I told her that I was grateful for the message and her feelings and that I appreciated the pic of the dog. I validated about her getting an apt and not getting a car. I agreed that the dog escaping from the yard is a problem. She asked about the trip so I told her that it has been great meeting and reuniting with folks and it has been a unique experience.

At this point I am sure I f#cked that up somehow as well.

[Benito]

Morning Davide,

I am so glad you took the post in the way it was meant to be received.

From my personal experience it was the direct advice that initially hurt that was the most helpful. It stopped me kidding
myself and focused my attention on me rather than me/us/her.

With the added bonus of being able to speak to someone who has been a WAS, took ring off, solicitors called etc.. I have another insight into how a situation like this can play out and the inner workings etc..

The reason I am replying to you directly is because I see my situation in yours. We never really argued, had loads of great times, loving, supporting, etc.. so when the end came - even though I understood she had gone... my soul/spirit wouldn't allow it.

I was out with friends/reading/running, but my thoughts were with her - it was my self defense mechanism kicking in too save me from further pain - convincing me that my situation was different, and because she loved me - she would eventually see the truth and come home.

You say that you do not know how to interact with her. Just take a second to yourself and think about this comment. You are asking for advise on how to speak to your own wife. A person that you have been married to for 7 years. That says alot to me.

A confident, and mentally healthy male, who is strong in his own self worth - (you will get here at some point just not now) does NOT need to ask what to say. There is no game to be played. When you met did you play games? take advise on what to say? - Or like most relationships - did you just be yourself and she loved you for who you are?

Thats the reason why most people break up. As the years role by we all fall into different roles i.e. husband, money earner - (because society gives us an idea on how we SHOULD be) and we lose focus on the only truth we ever have. Being ourselves. And guess what happens? - the person you are with falls out of love with you because you are not the same person anymore - not because your a bad person, but because your focus was on what is perceived as a good relationship i.e. paying the bills, being faithful, etc.. rather than the actual truth... i.e. two people who can still be individuals but are their for each other when they need it.

You need to be in a situation were you are confident to say to your Wife, the world is yours - go and do want you want and you are emotional strong enough to know that if this love is true, she will come back. I honestly believe that in theory you believe you are doing this, and thats fine, but in reality I personally dont think you are there yet.

There is no point at this stage saying nice things and acting a certain way because its not your true authentic self she fell in love with, its plain for everyone to see, that its a desperate version of yourself trying to hang on - which isnt the most attractive thing in the world to a women.

You said above - but I also know that I do still long to share my journey with her. Do I need to completely let that go as well?

Im sorry pal but you need to smell the roses a little bit here. This situation has nothing to do with what you want. Your world at the moment is upside down. The operating system your brain is working on needs to be updated as it currently still convincing you that if you do something you will convince her to come back. She doesnt want to share this journey with you. I dont like to write that - but she doesnt - or she would still be with you.

Personally, I think you need to stop doing things to distract you from thinking about her. The reason I say this is because ignoring things do not address the problem. It is waiting for you when you return.

Your lifes goal at the moment is focused on getting her back. It now needs a hard reset.

This next bit sounds harsh but please understand my sentiment. You need to convince yourself she has died. She is no longer an option.

Sounds weird, but I promise you this is the only thing that you can focus on that will prepare you for what is to come. If she was no longer alive, I would bet my life your outlook and actions would have to change - because she is out of the picture. That is the only way you are going to move forward, by fully accepting that.

When you know there is only you left, you go into survival mode and your senses heighten. Its fight time. You need to survive. So you adapt your life to make yourself better. For you.

Its funny, because of my low self worth I always though that if I acted a certain way, or was polite and friendly more people would like me etc.. because the biggest fear for most people is being alone. its a trick because you never live a true life.

When I lived alone for 8 months, and focused on me and embraced the pain and learned about myself some more - gradually over time, my family relationship improved, my job improved, and my wife came back because she say it natural over a 9 months period. Not because i did these things to win people back, but because they wanted to be around someone like me who had the strength to change for me irrelevant of being alone or not. Its a attractive quality.

People are so eager to get to the destination (recon), that they forget the journey to get there - which is the most important part. Which is why so many people fail in my opinion. Dont avoid the pain, go through it - its the only way.

But you will be ok, but you need to get your head in the game.

[Rawpain]

Benito thats some really solid advice and really resonated with me and how I have been looking at it all wrong and lying to myself that I am doing things for me . When in fact it has all had an underlying goal to get a reaction from my W. The part about confidence and not knowing how to speak to my W rang true too and what you said makes so much sense.
I need to shake up and wake up and I think seeing my W as dead and this person I have to interact with as just a somebody I know approach will help. I still need to grieve for my W and my R.
Thanks.

[Benito]

Benito thats some really solid advice and really resonated with me and how I have been looking at it all wrong and lying to myself that I am doing things for me . When in fact it has all had an underlying goal to get a reaction from my W. The part about confidence and not knowing how to speak to my W rang true too and what you said makes so much sense.
I need to shake up and wake up and I think seeing my W as dead and this person I have to interact with as just a somebody I know approach will help. I still need to grieve for my W and my R.
Thanks.

Hello,

I agree.

We have all been there. We will lie to ourselves constantly to save ourselves pain. The correct path to follow is the most painful one, not the path of least resistance.

Once that pain has been faced (and its fu&&ing painful) it gets less and less until you can cope... and then you start to live again.

But its a common error by new starters to think that because they are going to gym, or GAL more than it is going to end in their partner coming back - like its a magic trick.

The truth is most people do these things with one eye open looking for a reaction.

The fact that you recognize this is a brilliant first step though. well done.

[LoneWlf]

Benito- thanks for the shot of reality- The truth hurts but also the truth helps! Please keep posting

[Davide]

Benito,

I want to respond now, even though I have just read your message because I am not sure if I will have any internet access over the next few days.

I hear you saying that your thoughts were with her, and I know that on your thread that you talked about "faking it til you make it" in terms of interactions. Perhaps I am still there. If I want to keep the lines of communication open, I need to fake it til I make it.

I admit that I am completely discombobulated in my interactions with her because I feel like everything I wanted to say in my original message was something that I would have said when we first met. At the same time I get your point about being my authentic self - I feel like I am much closer to that person now than I was pre-BD. However, my authentic self at this point does still want R, even if it is a distant and fading hope, and I cant show that authenticity.

You tell me that my W doesnt want to share the journey with me. Check. I hear that. It stings, but a lot less now that I have heard it a bunch of times from you and others, and from her on more than one occasion. Your operating assumption, which may be true, seems to be that I am in denial or simply distracting myself. I feel like I have been pretty open in dealing with my emotions as they arise, but I have tried to avoid wallowing in them. Your message reads to me that I need to wallow in my grief and soak it up more and more. I suppose I could do that, but I dont know that it will help me to become a better stronger person.

I feel like I can focus on me and be positive, even thinking and planning my future without the W, affirming myself, practicing self-compassion and living in the moment. Those things strengthen me. Or I can grieve and focus on the dead R and spend much of my time in misery, sadness, anger, and resentment. It is not that I deny those emotions as they come up every now and again, but I do choose to acknowledge them and let them pass. As I have spent more time on my trip I have thought less and less about the R and that future, and more about me. I thought that was a positive step, but now you have me questioning that.

Your final words sting a lot as well, that I need to "get my head in the game." It implies that I am not focused, or not focused on the right things. Honestly, it brings up anger, because as poorly or well as I am doing I have been putting more effort into this than anything I have ever done in my life.

[arsh18]

Benito, thanks for the posts, i actually read both of them a few times to not miss out on anything. I am guilty of most of the things you point out here as well and I am sure most LBSs are initially, how each of us lets go and detaches is all dependent again on our personalities I believe and I know the earlier we reach that stage the faster we heal.

But what I can pragmatically say in another person's sitch I fail to apply to my own. Emotions and desperation to keep the MR turn us into someone else.

I have asked people how to approach, what to say to WAH, a person I have spent 15 years and practically all my adult life with. BD gives them the power and makes us the weak spouse that grovels to save the MR. But every time I want to respond to WAH in my usual way I start thinking , the real me is who he has rejected so unless I try to appease and see his side he will not like me. It is weak I know but I have tried justifying that it is validation and 180 and so I see in Davide and most other sitches too. you read how DB is counter intuitive but you only know how much so when you actually start practicing it.