Help...Confused Newbie Pt4

[ballast]

All sorry for my last point...I don't hate her nor do I plan to give up. I know I sound all over the place. What can I say just the pain inside me coming through. Hope you all can understand that.

[OrangeK]

All over the place is par for the course Ballast. Read through my thread, im like an emotional YoYo.

Think of it like you are a bouncy ball, and your WW leaving was her SLAMMING that bouncy ball onto concrete.

You will bounce several hundred times, but each time will be less, and less, and less high, with weaker and weaker impacts on the concrete.

Eventually you (and I) will lose all of our bouncing inertia, and roll idly down the driveway, calmly rolling away from WW.

We just have to make sure, if they ever pick up the bouncy ball again, it will be to bring it inside the house and keep it safe, not to slam it into the concrete again after shes had her fun playing with a tennis ball for a year instead.

Odd analogy, i hope it makes sense.

[AnotherStander]

And then if I do divorce, not to say that folks like your friend don't come around, but by then at what cost?

Yes this is something I touch on now and then, that by the time a WAS does come around then inevitably the LBS has moved on and no longer wants recon. The problem with our wanting recon after BD is not that we love our spouse that much, it's that we want to put everything back to normal and resume our life. That's really the crux of this. I was just as checked out of the M as my ex, in fact I had kicked around the idea of leaving her. In the end I decided not to because of the kids. But then when she BD'd me, suddenly I could think of nothing else but getting her back. It's a strange thing, probably chemical, that goes on in our brains. We don't want something we have until we don't have it anymore, then suddenly it consumes us.

There are too many men that I see who are married to loving women and in no way are those men alpha.

One thing I've learned from talking to a lot of people since my own BD- things are almost never as they appear. Many, MANY of those happy marriages you see are falling apart in secret. One of my coworkers has what appears to be an amazing 30 year marriage- their kids are grown and starting their own families, the man has an excellent income, the woman is now retired and has an incredible pension, they travel 4 to 6 times a year to exotic locales, they party and do everything together. I've known them 20 years and would have told you they were as happy a couple as I've ever seen. After BD I had some heart-to-heart convos with him about my sitch. Come to find out he had been thinking of leaving her for years. They have sex twice a year, if she is falling down drunk. He has had oral sex with her one time in 30 years. ONE TIME!! When he told me that it was all I could do to to refrain from telling him I had it the evening before and again that morning before work She never stops complaining and has tried to kick him out, and actually he did move out once for a while. They basically decided to stick together for financial reasons and for the kids/ grandkids but they live as roommates. But by all appearances they are madly in love and have a "perfect" marriage.

I just don't think humans are wired to be with one person for life, LOL!

[LH19]

[quote=ballast] I just don't think humans are wired to be with one person for life, LOL!

To add to this, I had it explained to me once that the institute of marriage goes back thousands of years. Up to 150 -200 years ago people would live to about 30-40. If you got married at 20 you were only married 10-20 years tops. Most marriage can make it to 10-20 years. Now that we live twice as long being with the same person for 20-40 years is another story.

[ballast]

Yes this is something I touch on now and then, that by the time a WAS does come around then inevitably the LBS has moved on and no longer wants recon.

See that is just straight tragic sad. How life goes I guess, but after two people have made a commitment before God, family and each other to then get themselves into such a state...

The problem with our wanting recon after BD is not that we love our spouse that much, it's that we want to put everything back to normal and resume our life.

See for me I feel I did love her that much. Sure there were times when those feelings went up/down and I know many times I did a terrible job at showing her I did, but I never had to question if I loved her. And I would be more than fine with creating a new MR with her and a new life. If one day she was seriously wanting to talk to me about our R, I'd agree with her that the old MR was not enough for either of us. I accept the old normal wasn't enough, sadly I don't think I'll get the chance with her to make a new improved future. You hear it said "ah if two people want to work at it, they can make a marriage stronger than what they had before"...it is again terribly sad that more couples can't/won't turn inwards towards each other, tell each other they are going to get through whatever together and make the changes necessary to fulfill each other.

We don't want something we have until we don't have it anymore, then suddenly it consumes us.

Eh...if I REALLY thought we were horrible for each other then I "think" I could let her go and not be consumed trying to get her back.

In our case both of our parents have been married for 50+ years. We both at least I thought knew that getting married would be up and down and hard work. So when I married, I was come h*ll or high water I am NOT leaving you. I thought she was/would be the same, unfortunately, I could not have been more wrong. Folks just give up these days, it's too easy to believe the grass is greener, social media/Internet makes betrayal available right at your finger tips and having to work at a marriage when instead you can simply drop the problem person and pick up a new one makes no sense. I know I'm old fashioned on marriage/morals. You DO NOT make a commitment and then walk when it does not suit you. Sadly I think way more in my generation completely disagree with that sentiment. People today just do not count the blessings that they have and instead quickly cast them aside when any adversity comes about.

[OrangeK]

So when I married, I was come h*ll or high water I am NOT leaving you. I thought she was/would be the same, unfortunately, I could not have been more wrong. Folks just give up these days, it's too easy to believe the grass is greener, social media/Internet makes betrayal available right at your finger tips and having to work at a marriage when instead you can simply drop the problem person and pick up a new one makes no sense. I know I'm old fashioned on marriage/morals. You DO NOT make a commitment and then walk when it does not suit you. Sadly I think way more in my generation completely disagree with that sentiment. People today just do not count the blessings that they have and instead quickly cast them aside when any adversity comes about.

I agree it is a problem with our generation.
I too am old school, i only wanted 1 marraige, and I may stick to that. I have said before, if another woman wants to get married to me it will have to be a really convincing situation. Hard sell.

My parents have been together for 35 years. WW's parents have 4 divorces between them, and it will likely be 5 sometime soon (MIL and Step-FIL hate eachother)
She has said before "I come from divorced families and I am fine"
She isnt. So i know she has her own view of how "Ok" divorces are. I disagree. Of all my friends from un-divorced homes vs. those from divorced homes, i can say who i think ends up being more well rounded relationship partners.

Ballast, here is the thing. I have regretted many a rash decisions ive made in my life.
I think its safe to say the WW's out there, Mine and Yours, are going to rue those decisions later in life.

We be tortoises, they be hares. Let them run off after the green grass, touting their arrogance and superiority.
Thinking they have won the race, and being exhausted from all the effort it took to "win" by deception, they will one day wake from their pretentious nap, only to find we have crossed the finish line, to the elation of our peers, while they slink up to the finish line, alone and defeated, likely looking to bask in our victory.

[Accuray]

Hey Ballast, sorry to hear you are suffering and struggling. One thing I can read between the lines is that you are telling yourself stories, and then getting upset about those stories. That is far different than reacting to what actually happens.

Let's say you go into a store, buy something, hand the cashier your money, and put your hand out for the change. Instead of putting the change in your hand, the cashier puts the change on the counter.

You could tell yourself "the cashier did that because they hate me and are showing their disrespect" and you could then get mad about that and walk around fuming.

Alternately you could tell yourself "the cashier is tired and just puts everyone's change on the counter, it has nothing to do with me" and leave without thinking about it anymore.

--Or-- you could say "the cashier put the change on the counter" (which is the fact of what happened) and not ascribe meaning to it, or draw a relation to what that means about you. Does that make sense?

With me having D this weekend, first thing on Saturday W hit me up about needing some information for our car insurance to split up. For sure she knew by doing that, she would likely get me thinking about us and not having fun with D. I simply replied back with the requested answer and moved on to having a great time with my D. This whole "sorting out" if you say that's what it is, right now it seems like passive/aggressive (vindictiveness) from W.

Can you identify the story you're telling yourself, and how its different from the facts of what happened in the quote above?

W asked you a question about car insurance -- that's the fact, that's what happened.

You told yourself the story that she chose that time to ask the question because she was trying to derail your thoughts so you wouldn't enjoy your time with your daughter.

You went further and labeled her logistical question about insurance as passive aggressive and vindictive.

With the benefit of hindsight, does that conclusion seem like a stretch to you?

If she's trying to get out of the marriage, then why would she ever want you "thinking about us"? If you "think about us" and get sad, on some level she feels guilty, so she doesn't want you to "think about us".

Is it possible that because she didn't have D around, she was taking some time to work on her logistics, had "insurance" on her list, began working on the insurance situation, ran into a roadblock and reached out with a question?

If that's what happened, it had *nothing* to do with you, your thought process, your time with D, or being vindictive right?

It's a very important skill to develop to step back, and separate the FACTS of what happened, from the meaning you attached to it in the form of a story you told yourself. Your stories have far more to do with what you think of yourself than other people's motivations.

In another example, you interpreted the fact that W didn't reach out to you on Father's Day to mean that she doesn't respect you. The fact is that she didn't reach out. The interpretation that this means she doesn't respect you is a story you're telling yourself.

Its also possible that she forgot it was Father's Day, or that she felt awkward about reaching out, or the thought of reaching out made her sad, or her friend got sick and Father's Day slipped her mind. You simply don't know the "why" you only know the "what".

If you've read up at all about NGS then you've read about "covert contracts". Covert contracts are when you do something for someone, and then build an expectation in your mind that you are entitled to get something back as a result, but you don't articulate that expectation. Then, when the "something" isn't delivered, you get mad and resentful.

In your story about Father's Day, you seem to imply that since you reached out to her on Mother's Day, you were entitled to have her reach out to you on Father's Day. That is a covert contract, and that is a dangerous practice to engage in because it doesn't end well.

If you want to reach out to her on Mother's Day, then do so, but learn to do it with no expectations that you are then due something in return. If you expect to be acknowledged on Father's Day, then let the people you'd like to hear from know in advance that this is your expectation. Otherwise your "contract" is covert. In this case, I don't recommend asking for something like that from W, but in the future if she asks you to take extra parenting nights so she can go do something, and you'd like to be able to ask her for the same thing in the future, make it clear to her that this is your expectation.

I have gotten ZERO from W since beyond high selfishness and desire to control whom I talk to within her family.

Well that is *her* family right? I had a great relationship with my exW's family. When she became a WAS, I read something here that said that this experience is super painful for the WAS even though they don't show you that. They need their support network just like you need yours.

If you stay in regular and proactive contact with her family, or worse yet campaign that "you are the good guy and don't want this", you're cutting a leg off of her support network and she will resent you for that.

She's their daughter, let her have her family for support, regardless of what she's done or how bad she's been. You have your family and friends to rely upon.

In the future you'll have plenty of opportunities to have a wonderful relationship with your ex-Inlaws, but for now push the pause button.

I told my exFil as much -- he was complaining about exW's choices and behavior to me. I said "Fil, I've really enjoyed our friendship, but right now your daughter needs you and I'd prefer that you support her than commisserate with me. We'll have time to do this in the future once we get through this" He respected that and I'm sure exW appreciated it very much.

On the topic of respect and Sandi's posts, you need to have "The Attitude" as we've discussed. No matter what happens, your toes are still tappin'. This is also called "fake it until you make it" and "Act as If" in the DB book.

If you're confident in who you are and establish healthy boundaries for how you will be treated, and treat others with respect and empathy, everyone will respect you, exW included. There is no reason to disrespect you in that scenario, and if someone did you wouldn't care. That's where you want to be.

Acc

[ballast]

ACC so bottom line up front, I need to CHILL THE H out! I completely see that instead of taking things at face value, I've blown them WAY out of proportion AND crafted them to make them as pessimistic as possible to feed my fear, anxiety and belief there is no hope. Totally guilty as charged.

I also for sure did expect a covert contract for Father's Day. As I had acknowledged her, I EXPECTED the same and then went off the deep end thinking "She must hate me like crazy, no chance, we're done, over, over, over". Again guilty as charged.

The thing with the in-laws is that she does not talk with them about our sitch nor seek support from them as she knows they do not agree with her choice at all. I do see what you mean and I'm sure she resents that fact. I really, really do not want nor like hearing anything like "I'm on your side"...to me there is no side, there's supporting a couple and hoping for an R/new MR vs divorce. I need to do a much better job on this topic, perhaps backing away may help to defuse/reduce some of the pressure/resentment in her.

Lastly appreciate your insight on the respect topic and reaffirming to me the Mike Damone way. Last last thing I'll say is SEE how you gave me "exW, exFil" even something that subtle triggers me to believe that even you think me and W are hopeless to save AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW US! Again I need to chill the H out...way out! Just being in the absence of control as you've told me about before. I will keep working at it...much much much time to go for me to get better in many ways.

Thank you ACC! Always appreciated!

[ballast]

"I" am my own worst enemy at this time. It is not what W is doing to me but rather what "I" am doing to and NOT doing for myself!

[ballast]

And just like that W hits me with an email referencing "the divorce" make it already sound to me like a certainty. Treat it as if and go on?