My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 2

[Surfer]

Ovr,

She is playing with you. A few points (some made buy others).

Start seeing the games (and don't engage) - accidental touching, flirty behaviour (including non-necessary convos). Let her be lonely in her new life.

I bought anniv presents. Buying creates guilt - remorse, but only do it if you respect the marriage and explain that. So do something small but preferably just leave a card and if she does not open it don't be upset. I was still 100% in pursuit mode and I'd probably tell myself not to get a thing. It's all opinion based.

She is putting the ring back on at work and asking you not to tell people as she knows what people will think - and they will!!!

I think at some points validation is good. But try validating not always in a caring way. Perhaps more plain speaking (i.e. not vindictive). Kind of ..sounds hard but I suppose those are the consequences for your actions..seems like you are going to have to deal with this.

In terms of talking to family. As I have said before, my take is only talk to those people you can trust not to get involved. You are telling people to help you cope. That is it. Don't throw her under the bus, but if she asks, say you talk to those who support you for you and you tell the truth. I think that is perhaps the best way to deal with it.

Keep the convos short. Like you are speaking to the neighbour who called about their cat, but you are busy. I used to find it best to say the following when she was in mid flow ...sorry I have to go, I will call later. Then keep repeating this and tell her and do put the phone down - then turn it off. Set up a standard response on your messaging to say ..cant talk at the moment.

You need to leave her to her own new life and see how she enjoys it. Not stay there with her - supporting her. I am telling you because I got it wrong too!!

Surfer.

[sandi2]

Do you really want to end all this b.s.? Do you want to know the secret of how to get your W back? Do you really? I can tell you in three little words. I don't think you'll do it, but I can tell the secret. Let her go.

You have had some of the board's finest members posting, and I have seen nothing in their advice that I really disagree. We will hang around and post back & forth, b/c this is what we do. I'm simply telling you what works with wayward W's. The trouble is the H. He puts up with all her nonsense and disrespect. He wants a solution, but he wants it candy-coated, like having a nice long talk about their MR and what each of them need. Those things are important, but they don't work as a solution when dealing with a WW. Those talks come later. Many H's want someone else to do the work for him, or get them to pressure her to stay with him. That's why some LBH's expose the A to OM's spouse, or turn to the WW's friends and parents. In fact, that is the reason you are so obsessed with keeping her folks informed, b/c you want them to apply emotional pressure that will make her stop her affair and shape up. I think most all LBH's feel this type of desperation when they fear they are losing their W. I can tell you something you might not know, this fear/desparation radiates from the H, and the WW can detect it. The more she detects your desperation to keep her, the bolder she becomes in her disrespect.

At the moment, your WW does not respect you as a man/husband and that's why she is playing around. Before you can find a solution to fix the M, you have to figure out why she doesn't respect you more. You see, whenever a woman stops feeling respect for her H, it kills the attraction. Just b/c she has given you sex recently, means nothing. It's pretty clear she uses sex as some type of manipulation, rather than an expression of love.

Waywardness begins in the heart when resentment has not been resolved or dissolved through forgiveness. When she can't settle it or work through it, she pushes it down and tries to just move forward. However, that resentment grows. In fact, it breeds. It eventually gives birth to disrespect. When she starts feeling disrespect, little actions will start to show signs. Her attitude, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. will cause the H to wonder what's up with her. He'll shrug it off as a "mood", and let it slide. Then she starts making little jabs at him in front of others. If he says anything about it, she'll claim she wasn't serious, or whatever. Eventually, she starts talking negatively about him with her friends and family. Signs of dissatisfaction, irratation, and a bad attitude, turns to anger, hatefulness, coldness, etc. The peaceful times get fewer and shorter lived. It seems as if she's in a bad mood most of the time. Actually, her feelings of disrespect are consuming her and changing her mindset.

Rebelliousness can be to any degree. Chatting on line to some guy, having an affair, or acting like girls gone wild is all her acting out the rebellion she feels toward her M and her H. In many cases, there are other issues in her life that she's rebelling against, as well.......but her anger is directed at her H. She blames him and the M for all her unhappiness.

Anyway, before the H can hope to gain his W's loving feelings, he has to gain her respect. Here's the thing about women. Their ability to feel love for their H, is tied to the level of their respect for him. Ain't that a kick in the head! Strangely enough.........or really, it's not strange at all when you realize how a woman is designed, the WW respects only one thing.......strength. Therefore, when she looks at her H, she doesn't want to see a wuss. She doesn't want some passive-aggressive, accommodating, nice guy. She doesn't want to see a mama's boy. She wants to see a real man........which simply means she sees a man who shows strength. She sees it in his interactions, decisions, actions, words, attitude, and his love. He doesn't tolerate her disrespectful behavior toward him and their M. He doesn't put up with her b.s. Even when she doesn't agree with him, and even if she gets angry.......she'll respect him for acting like a man with dignity and nner strength.

I read a statement by another poster about what he learned from his experience, and I'll amen it to the sky. "The LBH is never more attractive to his WW, as when he is walking away". So, my advice is to drop the emotional rope you have wrapped around her, and let her go. I think you'll see just how fast she grabs that rope, trying to lasso you and pull you back.

[Surfer]

Sandi, as per usual, is spot on.

Hard to do I know. But its about detachment and pursuit.

People in this sitch often only want to pursue what they think they cant have, that they have lost. Does she feel she has lost you when she is able to pull those strings? No. She still has the strings and they are firmly attached to your balls. Cut the strings and own (your own) balls.

Often we say we are detaching. But we trick ourselves. Dont fool yourself. Just move on or as MWD would say, act as if.....

Surfer.

Surfer.

[ovrrnbw]

Hey all, thanks for the posts, I just read them all. Some of what you're saying is actually converging with the conclusions I drew this week.

I'm thinking I'm going to "even us up" on the remaining funds in our joint account. She has been excessively spendy, and I'm going to rectify that. She knows how this works through her past (her father's business, and that neither her nor I tolerate getting screwed over). So she spent a few grand on clothes, shoes, etc since BD and I'm going to settle that up.

Those funds, along with my next check, are going into an account in only my name. She has been whining to me throughout this process about money bc she works for cash. Even though she makes $3,200 or so a month in unreported income, she can't get financing bc it's all under the table. Boohoo, not my problem.

I am going to tell her it is time for her to move out of the house. I don't want to live with and support an adulterous person. I can't make her move, but I'm tired of this. Her mom told me that if her husband was talking to her like I was talking to my WW, that she would have thrown his clothes out the next day. Well, I wanted to ask her what she'd do if he was having an affair...

That's the bad thing, I was not a great person before the BD and PA. I have plenty of bad, negative habits that weakened our relationship. So I'm a bit apprehensive about taking the tougher approach. I have come a long ways on taking care of my garbage attitudes and behaviors, as well as setting up support networks and checks for falling back into old habits.

I just don't see the point anymore of being there for her in any way. It's not doing me any good. I'm not sure when I'm going to do this, but in the next week or 2 is what I'm thinking. She's not home much anyways. I also am thinking about bringing her parents up to speed on this beforehand bc they are safe, supportive people.

I stayed away from this place the last few days bc of some new info on my situation. I'm going to list it out below. I was back to being a bit blue for a couple days, and wasn't sleeping much. WW is super spendy and got a new phone that she didn't need, left her old one laying around. I took a gander. So here's what was keeping me up:
-she googled what her dreams meant, here were the dreams:
-what does dream of sliding and falling down hills mean
-what does car accident dream mean
-what do cheating dreams mean
-sleep deprivation (not a dream, but she searched it)
-does being pregnant give you weird dreams
-18 days late, spotting
-21 days late, 3 weeks late
-swollen around opening of vagina
-large pink ball at opening of vagina
-text message about OBGYN appt, not sure if she actually went
-her sister is covering up and not telling her folks about anything
-OM has a group pic on FB of them on a party bus, WW is hiding but visible
-WW is around heavy drinkers and drug users now with OM plus one of her dumb friends
-WW hung at our neighborhood pool w/ some druggie looking idiot girl.

And before I get the "Don't snoop/ask questions about things you can't handle", I can handle this and I'd rather know than not know. Obviously this is a little crazy, hopefully somebody reads this and thinks "Wow, at least my situation isn't the F'ed up".

PS Mom if you read this don't kill me.

[ovrrnbw]

Oh I should state also that I don't think WW is preggers, my sister found a tampon in the bathroom trash. I think there was something in the search history about missing a period due to stress too.

[Vanilla]

I believe in INTEL not snooping. The difference is to know, possibly to be able to prove!

Once you know you can not unknown.

But if you haven't been tested for STDs go get it done and tell WW you are doing that. I got tested, your health is important ok.

This stuff can cause horrible damage and some of it is incurable when established. It's antibiotic resistant. Early treatment is vital.

V

[fmly1st]

Sandi,

This post makes a lot of sense to me. But since i still live with my wife and also have 3 kids here, how would i go about letting her go? I can sense in her everything you are saying. And im trying to not give off energy that suggests i need her around. But as i type this, shes back out tonight while i sit alone on my couch wondering what she is up to and whG time she will be home? Tomorrow morning im getting in the gym and hitting it hard. Ty

[ovrrnbw]

Do you really want to end all this b.s.? Do you want to know the secret of how to get your W back? Do you really? I can tell you in three little words. I don't think you'll do it, but I can tell the secret. Let her go.

I'm really just trying to figure out what this means to me. In what ways am I still holding on? I ask this for you and me to think about.

The trouble is the H. He puts up with all her nonsense and disrespect.

Same as before, I'm wondering in what ways I'm still doing this. Something for to go over with the board, my counselor, sister.

He wants a solution, but he wants it candy-coated, like having a nice long talk about their MR and what each of them need. Those things are important, but they don't work as a solution when dealing with a WW. Those talks come later. Many H's want someone else to do the work for him, or get them to pressure her to stay with him. That's why some LBH's expose the A to OM's spouse, or turn to the WW's friends and parents. In fact, that is the reason you are so obsessed with keeping her folks informed, b/c you want them to apply emotional pressure that will make her stop her affair and shape up. I think most all LBH's feel this type of desperation when they fear they are losing their W. I can tell you something you might not know, this fear/desparation radiates from the H, and the WW can detect it. The more she detects your desperation to keep her, the bolder she becomes in her disrespect.

At the moment, your WW does not respect you as a man/husband and that's why she is playing around. Before you can find a solution to fix the M, you have to figure out why she doesn't respect you more. You see, whenever a woman stops feeling respect for her H, it kills the attraction. Just b/c she has given you sex recently, means nothing. It's pretty clear she uses sex as some type of manipulation, rather than an expression of love.

She lost respect for me and started looking outside of our MR because she got tired of being treated poorly, us not having a regular sex life, us not having enough fun bc I was being cruel and nitpicky.

She has not given me sex recently, it's been 2.5 months. I would not have sex with her until she got tested.

Waywardness begins in the heart when resentment has not been resolved or dissolved through forgiveness. When she can't settle it or work through it, she pushes it down and tries to just move forward. However, that resentment grows. In fact, it breeds. It eventually gives birth to disrespect. When she starts feeling disrespect, little actions will start to show signs. Her attitude, facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. will cause the H to wonder what's up with her. He'll shrug it off as a "mood", and let it slide. Then she starts making little jabs at him in front of others. If he says anything about it, she'll claim she wasn't serious, or whatever. Eventually, she starts talking negatively about him with her friends and family. Signs of dissatisfaction, irratation, and a bad attitude, turns to anger, hatefulness, coldness, etc. The peaceful times get fewer and shorter lived. It seems as if she's in a bad mood most of the time. Actually, her feelings of disrespect are consuming her and changing her mindset.

Rebelliousness can be to any degree. Chatting on line to some guy, having an affair, or acting like girls gone wild is all her acting out the rebellion she feels toward her M and her H. In many cases, there are other issues in her life that she's rebelling against, as well.......but her anger is directed at her H. She blames him and the M for all her unhappiness.

Anyway, before the H can hope to gain his W's loving feelings, he has to gain her respect. Here's the thing about women. Their ability to feel love for their H, is tied to the level of their respect for him. Ain't that a kick in the head! Strangely enough.........or really, it's not strange at all when you realize how a woman is designed, the WW respects only one thing.......strength. Therefore, when she looks at her H, she doesn't want to see a wuss. She doesn't want some passive-aggressive, accommodating, nice guy. She doesn't want to see a mama's boy. She wants to see a real man........which simply means she sees a man who shows strength. She sees it in his interactions, decisions, actions, words, attitude, and his love. He doesn't tolerate her disrespectful behavior toward him and their M. He doesn't put up with her b.s. Even when she doesn't agree with him, and even if she gets angry.......she'll respect him for acting like a man with dignity and nner strength.

All good info to help understand, and to focus on doing what works or at least not doing what doesn't work.

I read a statement by another poster about what he learned from his experience, and I'll amen it to the sky. "The LBH is never more attractive to his WW, as when he is walking away". So, my advice is to drop the emotional rope you have wrapped around her, and let her go. I think you'll see just how fast she grabs that rope, trying to lasso you and pull you back.

How do I walk away? Right now I'm considering opening a separate account and asking her to move out (I can't make her move).

I'm not going to date anyone, or commit adultery myself. That's not a solution for me.

[Gordie]

How are you doing?

[ovrrnbw]

Not bad. Friday I called WW to meet and talk. We needed to get some documents signed by her for the spec home mortgage and my counselor had wanted to me to "drop a nugget" on some other issues.

We were going to meet at a park, but WW wanted sushi. I had already eaten and told her this. Then the rain came, so we went to get sushi. I expressed to her that she hurt me by crossing the boundary on our anniversary. She to tried split hairs on that, and I reinforced that she knew what I had told her, and it was hurtful.

I addressed what "trying" is to me, in response to her saying "she tried on our anniversary (about a week ago), and was going to come home if it went well". I also told her that if she was expecting things to be amazing and to just pick right up, that there was too much pain and awkwardness for that.

She brings up how great she is feeling, I say fantastic I'm happy for you. But I know her search history (dreams, sleep deprivation, I posted it earlier). She states she isn't doing anything wrong, how if we were BF/GF then it would be over...

I brought up money and how she is not contributing to the joint account, but is still spending out of it. She says that she is doing that bc she is afraid I will do something crazy to her in this regard. I let her know that I am struggling to pay the bills (not financially), maintaining the home and taking care of "our" life.

I brought up our vehicle that she drives everyday. It is a luxury SUV, but WW has not contributing to the joint account since 4/9.

I let her know both of these things need to change, she assured me that she was merely "protecting herself". I say "OK", and realize words won't change this. I'm struggling to figure out if it is controlling if I simply take the vehicle that she is no longer financially responsible for and let her drive her truck. She'll expect she should drive my car, but I'd rather her not use my or our vehicles to commit adultery, especially when she isn't paying.

I told her that I am happy to provide, but that I want to provide for my wife, not somebody else's mistress. She didn't like the sound of that, and stated such. I told her that the words mean what she is at this point. She told me to "take the dictionary and go F$%* yourself". Not wanting to tolerate this disrespect, I gave her the paper to sign and then told her I was leaving. She pleaded/asked me not to leave her alone, and I had to tell her a couple of times that I'm not going to sit there for her disrespect. She didn't think she was disrespectful, so I reminded her what she said and walked out of the restaurant.

I was debating getting an Uber, but 10 minutes or so later, I got in the car with her and went back to my car. She brings up her infidelity and how more people would support what she is doing than me being an [censored]. So I ask her "then why hide it?". She states that she has support from people in her affair, so I asked "Who supports you, your parents?" WW was always huge on going to her parents for right and wrong of situations. She says that I am trying to shame her into R with me. I paused for about a minute, then responded that I am not shaming her, but that she promised it to me. She started bawling at that.

After a couple minutes, she decided to argue about money. How she's paying for my counseling (guess she forgot she isn't contributing to the joint account). I didn't engage, and as I got out of the car told her I'd have to make some changes. I'm taking what's left of the joint account tomorrow and opening my own.

Fast forward to today, my sister and I are in the garage working on stuff and talking. WW and MIL drive by in our car and quickly both face forward and drive right by the house. Inlaws house is 35 minutes away, so WW obviously wanted something from our house, but decided to cruise right by. Weirdo.

Doing OK overall. I had a dream about WW this morning. Her and I were getting close in the dream, physically and emotionally. That scared me and I woke up. Called my 24/7 counselor (work benefit, EAP) and talked for an hour and felt a little better.

I'm debating on whether or not it is controlling for me to take her/our car that she drives every day. I'd like some feedback on this.

I also don't feel it's right for me to give her my car either. She'll want to drive my car (which is only in my name) bc it's nicer than her truck (which is only in her name). At this point she is not paying her part for any of our bills and is paying for her expenses out of the joint account. She has been doing so since 4/9.