WAW, MLC, or Both? Or Maybe WW? Need Help With How

[Bewas]

Can anyone tell me the differences in how you treat or go about handling a WAW as opposed to a WW? I'm still not 100% sure my W is WW and would not want to harm things further in case she's not and I can know for sure.

Thanks!

[SteveLW]

Bewas keep DBing no matter what. If she is WW hopefully sandi will take an interest in your thread and guide you.

[hoosjim]

Hey Bewas.

We are of different generations (W and I are very early 50s) but y'all have been together long enough, and some of the things your wife is doing sound troublingly familiar, that i really think she might be a WW. Sandi2 and Artista are the real experts here, and I'm sure one or both will chime in as your sitch plays out if they agree, but... I worry. Maybe i tend to see affairs everywhere now since my own experience, but one thing i learned from everything that transpired for me is to trust my gut. Usually, and especially in a marriage where you know the other person so well, where there is smoke, there is fire. Phone gaurding was a MAJOR red flag with my WW. While I do not advise manic snooping in such instances, my own MC/IC was not adverse to performing reasonable "research" or "investigation" if you had reasonable grounds-- sometimes you just need to know. The key is to not become obsessive about it, and only you, for sure, know where that line is if once you start down that road. Having said this, i will second what another poster said on here previously which is that early-stage WWs tend to be VERY sloppy. They believe two things: 1) That everything will work out just perfectly for them and they will ride off into their happy little affair-having sunset and 2) That they are completely safe from discovery and at no risk from being caught. The problem is, both of these assumptions are dead wrong, especially since most, in the early stages, tend to be very sloppy.

As a result, if you decide to "look into" this, i will offer up the following: If your W uses an android phone and has google accounts, all you need to do is to sign into her google account on your home computer and check her account activity. Google, unless expressly told not to, records basically everything-- apps added, apps used, internet searches conducted, and, in many cases, everywhere the phone has travelled and sometimes even snippets of voice use of the phone. Yes, it records you and saves it. Sometimes. At any rate, this can tell you quite a lot. OTOH, you need to be careful and only sign on to her account on a computer or device that already previously signed on. Otherwise a warning email is generated that a new device accessed the account. Again, i do not advise for or against this course of action. However, if you do decide to "check up on her", it is relatively low risk way to do so.

Finally, i will offer this. If she IS a WW, she appears to be in very early stage. You say her demeanor changed almost overnight? It could very well be that she met someone, and that that meeting flipped some sort of switch for her... made her feel special, or sexy, or something... My own W had a similar trigger, although our problems had a much more profound and damaged basis (numerous years of neglect and fighting and anger) than your sitch does. Nonetheless, all A's start somewhere, and, IMO, when you discover there is an affair, the sooner it can be ended, the better. My own situation is unusual for a number of reasons, and may actually have worked out the only way it could have... MAYBE. However, when i first discovered my W's A, it was just getting started, was not much more than an inappropriately close friendship. But instead of walking out or taking other strong immediate action, i took a number of actions that effectively enabled the affair to continue... and as a result it was given time to grow and become MUCH stronger and much more involved. I can't say for sure what would have happened in my own sitch had I grown an instant backbone and kicked her out or walked out myself when i found out, so damaged had our MR already become, but i do know that by not acting stronger at that time, that the affair definitely grew and strengthened and that that other relationship become significantly harder for my W to leave behind.

The good news, of course, is that, miraculously almost it seems, my W did leave that other relationship behind , and we are currently happy and in the process of piecing. And it appears that you may have more of a happy foundation and basis for recovery, even significantly so, than i did. So do not despair.

But I personally think it would not hurt you to have a little more certainty about WON there is an affair (as i myself strongly suspect, at least in the early stages, from what you are telling me.)

Peace.

[mtb1981]

I would guess your W is already having an A. I think deep down you know, but you just do not want to believe it to be true. I was the same way. We believe what we want to. The Snapchat, lingerie, and wanting to move out as quickly as she can are big signs IMO. I believe it is Steve that has said Ws do not need a new place to work on themselves or the relationship. They need a new place so they can sleep with other people. My W did a lot of similar things at BD time. Getting in better shape, more time on make up and hair, hanging out with a younger crowd, going out more often. She had me believing nothing was going on. She was just trying to work on herself. I believed it for a long time until I found out the truth. I would guess she is a WW. Keep your guard up. And do not let her fool you. You will be surprised at a lot of things she says and does. Like they say, believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. Their fantasy is real and they will not give it up easily. I wish you luck luck, man....

[Bewas]

Ok, so I was able to get into her Snapchat and low and behold, nothing much there to be honest. Her friends list is super small and of no concern to me. I couldn't find anything damning or even suspicious at all in there. I was really expecting something. I guess I'm happy I didn't find anything, but in a way at least I would have known for sure if I did. This being in limbo is horrible. At this point I believe she could possibly be in something but if she is, she is doing an amazing job of hiding it. I'll take the advice and keep my guard up for it in the future. It would be great to get Sandi's opinion on this and her recommendations. I'm hesitant to apply too much tough love right now in the absence of any real proof. I'd hate to deteriorate the situation any further. I'm assuming just sticking to the basic DB rules right now would be my best bet until the situation unfolds further.

The one thing about her turning her phone off around me (sometimes, not all the time) is that I've been able to kind of notice what she was looking at before she turns the screen off and I've been able to trace back what she was looking at a few times and it was actually nothing. Still not behavior I'm liking and is suspicious but it's worth noting I think.

Thanks for everyone's help/advice so far!

[Cadet]

Can anyone tell me the differences in how you treat or go about handling a WAW as opposed to a WW? I'm still not 100% sure my W is WW and would not want to harm things further in case she's not and I can know for sure.

Thanks!

There is no difference in what you DO!

Read my first post, do that.

[SteveLW]

Ok, so I was able to get into her Snapchat and low and behold, nothing much there to be honest. Her friends list is super small and of no concern to me. I couldn't find anything damning or even suspicious at all in there. I was really expecting something. I guess I'm happy I didn't find anything, but in a way at least I would have known for sure if I did. This being in limbo is horrible. At this point I believe she could possibly be in something but if she is, she is doing an amazing job of hiding it. I'll take the advice and keep my guard up for it in the future. It would be great to get Sandi's opinion on this and her recommendations. I'm hesitant to apply too much tough love right now in the absence of any real proof. I'd hate to deteriorate the situation any further. I'm assuming just sticking to the basic DB rules right now would be my best bet until the situation unfolds further.

The one thing about her turning her phone off around me (sometimes, not all the time) is that I've been able to kind of notice what she was looking at before she turns the screen off and I've been able to trace back what she was looking at a few times and it was actually nothing. Still not behavior I'm liking and is suspicious but it's worth noting I think.

Thanks for everyone's help/advice so far!

Bewas, again be careful. More savvy WW have ways of covering their tracks. Snapchat is very easy from what I understand to delete conversations.

When my wife was at the height of her waywardness she would install FB Messenger and the singing app she sings on before each usage. Then do an uninstall and cache and storage clear after each use. The only way I found this was by snooping on her PC using Google myactivity.

So just because she covers her tracks and you don't find anything doesn't mean much. Which is why it is suggested that you do not snoop!! Snooping almost always just leads to more questions. If you find something worrying, usually it doesn't tell the whole story. And just because you find nothing doesn't mean that there is nothing to find.

Yes, there are those that advocate "intelligence gathering". However, regardless of what you may or may not find the fact that she is suspicious with her phone activity around you is enough of a red flag.

[Cadet]

Ok, so I was able to get into her Snapchat and low and behold, nothing much there to be honest. Her friends list is super small and of no concern to me. I couldn't find anything damning or even suspicious at all in there. I was really expecting something. I guess I'm happy I didn't find anything, but in a way at least I would have known for sure if I did. This being in limbo is horrible. At this point I believe she could possibly be in something but if she is, she is doing an amazing job of hiding it. I'll take the advice and keep my guard up for it in the future. It would be great to get Sandi's opinion on this and her recommendations. I'm hesitant to apply too much tough love right now in the absence of any real proof. I'd hate to deteriorate the situation any further. I'm assuming just sticking to the basic DB rules right now would be my best bet until the situation unfolds further.

The one thing about her turning her phone off around me (sometimes, not all the time) is that I've been able to kind of notice what she was looking at before she turns the screen off and I've been able to trace back what she was looking at a few times and it was actually nothing. Still not behavior I'm liking and is suspicious but it's worth noting I think.

Thanks for everyone's help/advice so far!

Bewas, again be careful. More savvy WW have ways of covering their tracks. Snapchat is very easy from what I understand to delete conversations.

When my wife was at the height of her waywardness she would install FB Messenger and the singing app she sings on before each usage. Then do an uninstall and cache and storage clear after each use. The only way I found this was by snooping on her PC using Google myactivity.

So just because she covers her tracks and you don't find anything doesn't mean much. Which is why it is suggested that you do not snoop!! Snooping almost always just leads to more questions. If you find something worrying, usually it doesn't tell the whole story. And just because you find nothing doesn't mean that there is nothing to find.

Yes, there are those that advocate "intelligence gathering". However, regardless of what you may or may not find the fact that she is suspicious with her phone activity around you is enough of a red flag.

I will give you a different example that tells you why you may never find out about the other person.

My ex-w used to read romance novels and I am fairly convinced she fell in love with the main characters, who I could not compete with.
SO in her head she was having an affair but their were no other signs externally that anyone would ever know about.

Until they decide that LOVE is a CHOICE and that they must CHOOSE to LOVE no one is going to convince them otherwise.

Let them have their crisis and you work on yourself.

[SteveLW]

Ok, so I was able to get into her Snapchat and low and behold, nothing much there to be honest. Her friends list is super small and of no concern to me. I couldn't find anything damning or even suspicious at all in there. I was really expecting something. I guess I'm happy I didn't find anything, but in a way at least I would have known for sure if I did. This being in limbo is horrible. At this point I believe she could possibly be in something but if she is, she is doing an amazing job of hiding it. I'll take the advice and keep my guard up for it in the future. It would be great to get Sandi's opinion on this and her recommendations. I'm hesitant to apply too much tough love right now in the absence of any real proof. I'd hate to deteriorate the situation any further. I'm assuming just sticking to the basic DB rules right now would be my best bet until the situation unfolds further.

The one thing about her turning her phone off around me (sometimes, not all the time) is that I've been able to kind of notice what she was looking at before she turns the screen off and I've been able to trace back what she was looking at a few times and it was actually nothing. Still not behavior I'm liking and is suspicious but it's worth noting I think.

Thanks for everyone's help/advice so far!

Bewas, again be careful. More savvy WW have ways of covering their tracks. Snapchat is very easy from what I understand to delete conversations.

When my wife was at the height of her waywardness she would install FB Messenger and the singing app she sings on before each usage. Then do an uninstall and cache and storage clear after each use. The only way I found this was by snooping on her PC using Google myactivity.

So just because she covers her tracks and you don't find anything doesn't mean much. Which is why it is suggested that you do not snoop!! Snooping almost always just leads to more questions. If you find something worrying, usually it doesn't tell the whole story. And just because you find nothing doesn't mean that there is nothing to find.

Yes, there are those that advocate "intelligence gathering". However, regardless of what you may or may not find the fact that she is suspicious with her phone activity around you is enough of a red flag.

I will give you a different example that tells you why you may never find out about the other person.

My ex-w used to read romance novels and I am fairly convinced she fell in love with the main characters, who I could not compete with.
SO in her head she was having an affair but their were no other signs externally that anyone would ever know about.

Until they decide that LOVE is a CHOICE and that they must CHOOSE to LOVE no one is going to convince them otherwise.

Let them have their crisis and you work on yourself.

Cadet, this is SUCH GOOD advice, because even if a W is in a PA, but certainly those in an EA, they have really fallen in love with an ideal, not reality. As you said, you couldn't live up to a fictional romance novel lover, but in reality NO ONE can. But for the WW she has that same fictional romance lover ideal set up in their head about their AP.

I love the line: "Let them have their crisis and you work on yourself." BRILLIANT!!

[Bewas]

A question about a WW. Do they ever snap out of it on their own even without a major loss or reality hitting? Also, Do loss and reality affect the WAW the same way?

Another question I have is about a few events coming up. First of all is her sisters graduation. I know for a fact that her parents and most of her siblings are incredibly upset and confused by her behaviour and have told me they want me to go regardless as I'm family to them. I'm not sure if I should go or not as if I go, she may not and then just resent me for it. On the other hand, it may be some reality her. How would you all proceed here?

Another event is her birthday this month. I'm assuming I do nothing and not even acknowledge it? Even though it's one of the things I probably needed to 180 on? I guess it would be chasing though... Some thoughts?

Thanks!