I'm a noobie here and still familiarizing myself with all the terms and such but I've read through a lot of the stickied material already but I'm still really unsure of what is exactly going on with my W. Anyways, this is going to be a long one but it' necessary to understand the situation so that hopefully some of you here can help me understand what is going on and more of the steps I should be taking to fix the situation the best I can.
As the title of my post states, I'm having trouble figuring out if my wife is simply a WAW or an early MLC'er or both, or even maybe a WW even though I don't fully expect that last one?
I'll start with the basics of us and our marriage. I'm 32 and she is 31. We've been together for 12 years as of this February and celebrated our Anniversary on April 15th. We have one son who is about 1 1/2. Our relationship has been generally good throughout, obviously there has been the rocky moments and even where the "D" word has come out in fights and in really bad moods or times but they've always just sort of smoothed over after at least a few days or so. There has never been any abuse toward either one of us either emotional or physical. There has definitely at times been disconnects but we've always been able to reconnect again, usually pretty quickly and the disconnects were usually stress or work related. There was also times where I being a typical man wouldn't notice things or do the little things that I should have been doing. After 12 years it can be tough at times to not be at least a little complacent. But overall, it's really been a pretty stable ride for the most part until about 2 weeks ago...but I'll get into that in a bit. Fist, a little more background info as I believe it's important to know as much about the situation as possible.
Our marital system is a little different from the norm although it is fast becoming more common in that for the last roughly 1.5 years since our son was born, I have actually been the one at home looking after him while she is out working. The reason for this is because of my profession and business, I can easily work from home and because of her business, she is needing to be there in person everyday. We both made the decision even before we decided to have a baby that in order to make it work I'd need to be the one looking out for him during the day at least as we had no close family nearby who would have been able to and we didn't want him in daycare so early in his life. So we had initially agreed upon at least a few years of this or so, maybe less depending on how things went. So for the last 1.5 years, I've been looking after him during the day and working through my business whenever I've been able which is pretty much only part time as it is extremely challenging to work and take of little one at the same time as I'm sure anyone who's ever raised kids knows. I've also been the one since day one that has pretty much done all of the banking and handled the accounts and such. She has always thought I was a little too controlling with the money. We've had credit card debt rack up over the years mostly due to business operations and the way she always wants new things for the business even though she hasn't sold the other stuff she wanted from before. Some of the purchases for the businesses have been gigantic and I have mostly been against them but in the end, she would always win. One of the reason I had been controlling in the past with money is to try to fight the spending on things we didn't need.
She is an extremely hard worker and has been since I've known her. She would always fill her days being busy doing things and if she wasn't, she would seem to get depressed or down (which is a key point for later I think) so I never really tried to get in the way of that even though I knew she would sometimes need to take breaks or just be with the family. We decided to open up a business for her in 2012 and it became really successful quite quickly, but in the end it only made her even more of a workaholic. She was always a very kind and loving person, short tempered at times but generally very good natured and with an extremely good moral upbringing. She has also always been more outgoing than me but not to an extreme. She has however also suffered from bouts of depression here and there which never really seemed to be triggered by anything. She also had a fairly traumatic childhood in some ways.
I've always been a decent worker as well although not to the extreme of my W. I definitely enjoy my down time as I've always found that balance is needed in life to truly enjoy it. I quit my long term job a few years into her business as that it was doing so well, we both figured it would be a good time for me to branch out into what I've always wanted to do. It started out slowly but started to gain steam. I had actually been using one of the spare rooms for my business in our commercial building that she uses for her business. I think she liked having me there as she always felt that if I was at home, I'd be slacking off or cheating on her or something. Which was definitely never something on my mind. This whole situation flipped once the baby came though.
Her pregnancy was actually pretty good. The problems started during the delivery, which was in November 2016. I think things have never been the same since with her, especially looking back. She ended up losing a lot of blood during the birth of our son and was needing transfusions. She didn't want the transfusions and decided to let her blood cells recover on their own which can take awhile. This is where her troubles begin I think as this is when the baby blues hit her HARD. I MEAN HARD. We were living with her parents during this time for about 2 months. It was a really dark time. She didn't seem to really form an unbreakable bond with our son due to this. During her initial recovery, we would go back and forth to the hospital for her to need reassurance she wasn't dying. She would lay there just looking in a daze. She would walk around like a zombie...this wasn't the person any of us knew. She would have anxiety attacks almost daily for the first 3 or 4 months after, probably longer but just not showing or telling me. She also had a few counselling sessions but didn't really keep up with them even though she should have. It took her going to work after a few months to start to at least somewhat become normal again. It's what she wanted to do. That's when I started to stay home and look after our son. I would say looking back at this, she may never have gotten over her postpartum depression completely.
Fast forward to about the beginning of this year. Looking back, the changes to her are obvious but at the time I guess you could say I noticed but didn't think anything of them. At the beginning of the year she started to become really obsessed with exercising. Like being in the bedroom doing a bunch of routines for like 2 hours straight. She was always saying she hated the bit of fat left after the baby that was still there as she was always a really naturally fit person. She also always thought I didn't like it either. She started hanging out with a lot more friends, most of which are younger and single or divorced. Her new "bestie" is a divorcee who preaches self empowerment on her website... Just different friends than she had hung out with before. She also started joining different female sports and just doing things that she would normally have never done. She started to become absolutely obsessed with her looks, like constantly checking herself out in the mirror, buying new clothes all the time, constantly checking on her "abs" in the mirror, spending a lot of time on her makeup, Always taking selfies of herself to post online, etc. She started working or taking clients way later than she normally would have in the past, but at least I could verify it due to the booking system at her business. Started to really seem to be more self centered in general and wouldn't really be concerned with spending much time with our son. Sex had been mostly regular between us even up to breaking point a few weeks ago but the only major difference I guess would have been in the fact that it seemed it was just lower on her priority list. She would still initiate it as much as me but sometimes it really seemed like I had to fight for it if I wanted it. The odd thing is, it had been the best sex of our relationship the last 6 months. She also hadn't been sleeping well the past few months as far as I could tell.
Now, the other thing about the last 6 months for us is that it had been extremely stressful. Stressful in terms of finances mostly. Many things contributed to it, but it just seemed that everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. One of our commercial buildings needed a new roof, rear window in our truck blew out for some, taxes were horrible this year for us, business was down due to economy in our location, you name it, it happened. I'm fairly sure she had been feeling a ton of pressure to work more which she did to help cover this. I'm also sure she resented me for staying at home with our son and only working part time even though I had actually been really busy with my business and had been contributing a lot lately even while taking care of our son full time.
Anyways, now to the moment this all happened, or rather the night before this all happened. She came home, even a later than usual, around 9pm. She seemed fine to me, we said hi and I asked how her day was. She said it was fine. Then she ate in the kitchen the supper I made for her. She then joined my son and I in the living room. Once she settled in with him, I decided to go take a break and just chill out on my pc. Everything seemed fine until we getting into bed. She seemed extremely distant and depressed. I asked her if she was ok, she said she was just tired. I took it at face value and then said my usual good night and I love you. I actually at this point cannot remember if she said it back or not. Anyways, the next morning she woke up still seemingly in a depressed mood, so I then asked her again if she was ok and she still said she was just tired. Again, I took that at face value and wished her a good day. A few hours later is when it all hit the fan.
A few hours after she left for work, I texted her to see if she was doing better. I got the response of "I'm not happy". I say what do you mean you're not happy? She responds with "I want a divorce. I'm not in love with you anymore." So of course I start the whole asking why, why, why and what is going on, etc etc. I start the pleading , crying and begging. Of course, as you all know that got me nowhere fast. When it happens so suddenly, it just seems like it's the only way a normal person would respond at the time. Deep down, I didn't believe she actually meant it. Not until she made it quite clear to me we are getting a divorce and there is nothing that is going to change her mind did I think she was serious. She also said she wasn't in love with me anymore and didn't want to be again. She said she felt like this for a very long time and questioned whether she ever loved me. I was absolutely devastated. How could the love of my life turn on me so quickly? Especially without even giving me an ultimatum to change or anything, just we're done and I'm not changing my mind, no chances. And the anger and coldness of her is something I had never seem from her. It's as if a switch was flipped in her head and she was a different person. It's then that I immediately that night started searching for how to handle the situation. I found a few different systems to work with but all seemed very similar but the DB one definitely caught my eye the most.
I tried doing the traditional methods of getting her to forgive me for the first few days but when it was clear I was just getting nowhere fast with those, I really started to pay attention to the last resort. It seemed to make a lot of sense, whenever I chase, she just ran further away. So I really started to try and implement that immediately. I had tried to follow the rules as best I could but I found myself slipping a bunch, especially after jabbing or pushing from her. One thing that especially through me for a loop is the fact that she was just pushing so hard to get it over with, even after less than a week she already wanted me to contact my mom and tell her that we are separating. I was like, whoa, slow down, I haven't even had time to wrap my head around this and you want it announced already?? She immediately stopped wearing her very expensive new wedding ring we upgraded her to only about 4 months earlier. She started talking about getting a separation agreement in place about a week into the situation and made an appointment with a lawyer to sign it and go over it. She also let her family know about a week in as well which didn't go well for her. She ended up slamming the phone on them. She has had no patience for anyone in her family who was trying to talk sense into her. Not because I told them to but just because they can't figure out what the hell is going on. Always her saying to not meddle and then hanging up. She has as of yet, not spoken to her parents about this. She knows how they feel about it. She also stated that I need to get a job as she feels my business can't support the house bills as she wants to move out as soon as I was on my feet. I have no idea what her plans on moving out were or where she was going to go.
Now, with her charging full steam ahead with wanting a separation agreement, telling family, friends, clients, etc. she didn't really stop to think about how tough the divorce really would be. It turns out the way she and I agreed to divide assets wouldn't work for us and that her business would be on the table. I think that kind of took her aback a little at least. She kind of waivered and said something like "maybe we should just call off the separation and I'll just go back to being miserable ALL OF THE TIME" but she then quickly back peddled on that and said she didn't care what I went after because she is a hard worker and will be fine. I made sure to tell her that "I'm not going after anything, it's just how divorce works." She, at the time was still going forward with a lawyers appointment regardless. It wasn't until a few days later that we had our house assessed by a realtor that all talk of lawyers was called off. The market in our area has been terrible the last year and in case of our house, it's barely worth the mortgage we have on it, meaning if we were to have to sell now, we would get nothing. Obviously, this must have not been what she was expecting and quickly agreed to call off the lawyers but still insisted we are separated. The thinking is waiting on the market to pick up again I guess. I then suggested that instead of her moving out, why not just stay in the house and as soon as I get another job instead of my business we'll just split the bills. To my surprise, she immediately accepted. I'm thinking it must be because she feels she will save more money this way as well but I'm not sure.
It's been a few days since then and we haven't really seen each other much. I've been executing the "rules" to a T as far as I can tell with the exception of maybe not acting as cheerful as I should but thats a tough one and I'm working on it. Things have been generally peaceful and she hasn't seemed as angry as long as there are no talks of anything important when I do see her. I did notice the other day, that after I was doing things I wouldn't normally be doing, at the end of the day, I was in the basement lifting weights, she came downstairs and looked around the corner, she said she merely "saw the light on and came to check" even though she knew I was downstairs. Seemed to me like a very small ping of interest to see what I was doing but I don't know.
Last night was difficult in particular as she didn't come home till after midnight and was dropped off by one of her friends. I was really having a difficult time keeping it together. It's the hardest thing in the world seeing the woman you love going out with friends not wearing her wedding ring...I later snooped on her phone (even though I know I'm not supposed to) and found out it was just drinks with a few female friends at a "non looking for someone place" so that helped me sleep last night.
So just to kind of summarize and point out some key details:
At this point I'm fairly sure she isn't seeing anybody as I haven't seen any proof of it across anything, her whereabouts are pretty much always accounted for and she swears she isn't (not that it matters what she says, but still I guess). The only two things I've seen that make me question at least something is the fact that sometimes she quickly turns her phone off if she thinks I'm looking which is I guess fine as it's hard to tell what she's doing on it, she could just simply be talking to someone about me or something. the other thing is one day about a week into this, after going out to a birthday party for her sister, she came back with some bags. I didn't see them but I heard them. She went outside to do some gardening so I went to see what that was. I didn't see anything but then went looking and it turns out she was trying to hide them. Thats when I found a victoria's secret bag with some sets of sexy new bra & panties. Now this in and of itself isn't necessarily out of behavior for her as she would from time to time get things like that for herself but I was just concerned about the hiding it. When I confronted her about it (I know, not supposed to but was angry) she swore again she's not seeing anybody and that the only reason she hid it is because she spent so much and knew I would be mad. She also mentioned that there were other clothing in there that she was hiding other than that which was true. At this point, I'm pretty sure she isn't seeing anybody as she has no male friends really in her friends circle, doesn't work with any or see any as clients and I can't find any real evidence of anything. She could be looking however even though she says she isn't. I'm not sure on this 100%
She has shown a lot of the characteristics of an early MLC'er to me. She started obsessing about her looks, doing way more with her business, started hanging out with younger single people, was talking about getting a new vehicle, generally starting to act like someone who didn't want the responsibility of having a family, and most of all making incredibly rash and irresponsible decisions that could ruin her family forever. However, could these just all also be the signs of a WAW as well? I have no idea.
In terms of her saying "she doesn't love me anymore", I've had a hard time believing that it has been that way for very long especially considering some of the things even in the month prior she would do or say. She may of course had ups and downs with that love feeling but we all do, I do all the time myself. I'm thinking she just hit a rock bottom depression one night coupled with the pressures and stress of the last 6 months and it just spiraled out of control into all this resentment towards me and now just seeing me as this lazy monster who doesn't help with anything or doesn't have a proper job, someone who she thinks all of the sudden has nothing in common with, etc. Not sure if this is something but this whole situation started right in the middle of her period. Only a few days prior to this happening, we were snuggling in the bedroom. She was just beaming at me ear to ear and hugging me a day before this as I finished building my sons first sandbox. She just seemed so proud of it with me. We were gardening together the weekend before this whole mess and having a great time. A week or two before this, she was asking me to have another baby with her. A month earlier, she wanted us to think about getting re-married and renewing our vows to which I agreed to at some point. Non of that seems to me like the actions of someone who doesn't feel ANY LOVE AT ALL towards someone. This whole situation has left my head just spinning.
I know for a fact there are things that I need to change about myself moving forward regardless of the outcome of this. I know I need to be out there working so she can see it. I need to be more assertive and stop procrastinating things. I need to make a point to be more outgoing and self confident. I need to stop having any control of the money or at least her money. I also need to work on just being a better husband and making her feel appreciated more...although I'm not sure if I'll ever get to do that again or not at this point. I also now know that we would HAVE TO make more time for ourselves even though we have a baby to take care of full time as I'm sure thats part of this as well.
So now what I really need help with is how I should go about this with her. I guess I really need to know if she a WAW or MLC or both or maybe a WW. My gut tells me she is a WAW but I'm not an expert. I also know you have to be doing 180's but what if one of the things I needed to change was showing her more attention, how can I do that without chasing? I usually did quite a bit of the house work, should I still be doing that? Should I still be doing her business accounting for her even if she asks? I'm just not sure how to proceed with a lot of this stuff.
So thank you for reading if you made it this far. I just hope that someone here will be able to help me figure out my situation and help me move forward with what to do. I'm sure there is a ton I'm forgetting to put in here but this seems to be the most important stuff.
Thanks!
W 31(WW) Me 32 Married 7 years together 12 1 kid - 1.5 yr old S BD 23/05/2018 Separated since BD I moved out 20/06/2018 for my own sanity OM or just fling? Not sure...
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
A few other things I forgot to mention in the original post is she after only 2 weeks has already removed pretty much all the recent photos of me from her social media pages as well as set her relationship status to separated. She had posts up along the lines of "you don't know what you had until it's gone", etc, which were obviously aimed at me. I'm sure this is normal behavior in this situation but I'm not sure. She hasn't changed any of her passwords or locked her phone out or anything though at this point so I don't think she has anything to hide.
Also, she has been doing some odd things like about 3 times now since this started, she's brought me home food from when shes gone out. She's also brought me groceries a few times as well. Not sure if I'm looking to much into that or not. It just seems odd to me is all. Especially if you don't care about me at all supposedly.
I'll post more if I can think of anything I've missed.
W 31(WW) Me 32 Married 7 years together 12 1 kid - 1.5 yr old S BD 23/05/2018 Separated since BD I moved out 20/06/2018 for my own sanity OM or just fling? Not sure...
-LRT all the way. Stop pursuit & GAL. The sooner the better.
-don't try to make sense of everything she does. You won't be able to and you'll only stress out trying.
-with her worrying about looks, staying out late, hanging out with single/divorced "friends", you need to prepare for the affair that may be happening. The phone thing makes me think she is having an affair. She is dumb about hiding it, like most WW's are.
*don't believe anything she says and only half of what she DOES* Your wife is hurting and scared (that's almost verbatim from the book).
-no more "I love you's". Don't say it. Don't do it. Don't think about it.
-my WW was all talking about the future and family and houses less than a month before BD (bomb drop). Don't try to use logic to understand an emotional (illogical) thing.
-if you want to 180 on attention, just pay attention when she actually does talk. Think about what she says, maybe ask pertinent questions. Don't offer advice or to fix it, just try to understand it.
-don't worry about making her feel appreciated right now. She'll see that as pursuit.
-don't worry about what would "have to happen" for the relationship to get better. You need a relationship first.
-if she is complaining about the difficulty of divorce (like the house and business), just say "that [censored]" or "yea".
-don't use the word 'divorce', don't bring it up, don't help her accomplish 1 single step moving closer to that. If she wants it, she'll do the work.
Good luck.
Last edited by Cadet; 06/10/1811:53 PM. Reason: Combine posts
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Bewas, sorry you are here. First make sure to get DB/DR if you don't have it and read it. Also read all of cadet's links.
Obviously you know enough to detach, GAL, 180s and be the husband only a fool would leave.
You said you have been having trouble with the being cheerful, so you know to do a 180 and that. It helps me when I am feeling unhappy or angry or even sad to start whistling a happy tune. Or sing it. Or hum it. Do whatever you have to do to be cheerful.
Remember, you are happy, pleased, content, confident, present. But you do not start conversations. You only listen, respond and validate. You treat her like you would a cashier at the store. You are friendly, but not connected. YOu are respectful but not overly excited that she dare condescend to communicate with you.
Personally based on your story I think you are dealing with a WW that is involved in an EA at best (IE the secretive nature of your phone usage) or a PA at worst (lingerie). If I had to guess, she is in an EA that is moving toward PA, based on what you've said. That is why she was trying to fast track the separation and D (so she'd be free to move it to a physical relationship).
My WW had a lot of the similar behaviors. Suddenly concerned about her appearance. Rewriting the history of our relationship. My W and I are deeply religious. As she started coming to terms with our Christianity she even said something very similar to "I'll just go back to being miserable ALL OF THE TIME".
From reading a lot of sitches it is usually something that causes the waywardness. For my wife it was turning 50. For yours it sounds like motherhood triggered something. I know you mentioned MLC, but this is a common misconception with WWs since the symptoms seem so similar to a MLC. And maybe it is or is related, but the reasons aren't important. We LBHs often think if we can pinpoint the cause, we can manufacture a fix. You can't.
So worrying about the cause is meaningless because the answer is still to DB. Detach (please make sure you understand this because it is NOT "going dark". It is doing what I described above in the paragraph starting with "Remember".
WWs are extremely selfish creatures so be surprised by NOTHING. DO not react to anything. When you feel like reacting take a deep breath and THINK and then respond appropriately. Reacting will kill you. WWs do things just to get a reaction.
READ SANDIs RULES. Learn them. Know them. Make sure they are top of mind at all times!!
Believe it or not you are in a fairly good spot. WWs have a perfect dream of a plan. As soon as that plan starts to erode, it starts to wake them up. That is what the "I'll just go back to being miserable ALL OF THE TIME" moment was about. They've convinced themselves that leaving is PERFECT and staying is HELL. That isn't reality and deep down they know this. But when the PERFECT starts to show it isn't so perfect then they start to come back to reality.
For my wife it was me selling the house and property (she didn't want that because of our daughter). When she started to realize that we weren't going to get a quickie online D for lots of reasons was another such moment. When she realized how devastating it would be to our daughter (they all have this illusion that it won't affect the kids) was yet another. WWs do not like moments of reality. This is why your wife reacted to her family the way she did, they started to give her reality. This is why her business being on the table caused her to lash out. Reality.
Your job is too help her see that reality even clearer. NOTE you do this not by breaking detachment, 180s, GAL and being the H only a fool would leave, you find other ways to do it. For me it was calling a lawyer (she wanted no lawyers). But I still tried to be detached.
So the fact that she has had doses of reality already is good.
As ovr said, BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES.
But also remember to get her back you have to let her go. No more snooping. No more R talks initiated by you. No more pressure or pursuit at all. When she leaves you ask nothing. Just say "bye". When she comes home you say "hi". Don't ask her anything about where she's been, etc.
You have a chance here if you do the right things. Because the key to all of the above is to BE CONSISTENT!! One slip up can eradicate weeks of progress. DO NOT SLIP UP.
Also, do what cadet will tell you in his next post: KEEP POSTING
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Bewas, I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through but it's great news that your wife discovered divorce wouldn't be so easy and she backed off. This is a great opportunity for you to buy time and hopefully your situation will be fixable. I'm not sure how to categorize your wife as I'm not such an expert here (don't even know if my husband is wayward or a walkaway) but I guess having a baby and postpartum depression caused her to go off the deep end. It's amazing that you care for your son! I've been the sole caretaker for my daughter and I also work-from-home. It's a challenge every single day. Babies and toddlers have no concept of their parents needing to get something done that doesn't involve them! Your child is fortunate to have you. You're doing great and I hope your wife can someday return-to-normal and appreciate what she has!
I'm still not 100% percent convinced she's WW but definitely bracing myself for it. I'm not sure if I'd even be able to continue the R if there is OM...
One thing that pushed me more to believing she's a WW is that I just discovered last night her Snapchat app is the only app on her phone that isn't automatically logged in and is always logged out even though it was in open apps, seemed strange to me. I then found that she had reset her password for the app the night before the BD. It seems like it's not just coincidence. Maybe I'm looking into things a little too much but it really bothers me. I know I'm not supposed to snoop but if I were to know, then at least I could decide whether or not to move on or continue DB.
One question I do have is, if she ISN'T WW, and is just WAW, how do I change my approach if any? Would a technique used on a WW backfire for a WAW?
Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks!
W 31(WW) Me 32 Married 7 years together 12 1 kid - 1.5 yr old S BD 23/05/2018 Separated since BD I moved out 20/06/2018 for my own sanity OM or just fling? Not sure...
Trying to post updates but they aren't being approved for some reason. Anyone have any insight as to why they wouldn't be showing up?
W 31(WW) Me 32 Married 7 years together 12 1 kid - 1.5 yr old S BD 23/05/2018 Separated since BD I moved out 20/06/2018 for my own sanity OM or just fling? Not sure...
Haha, sorry about that. I do absolutely need patience and to GAL right now...
W 31(WW) Me 32 Married 7 years together 12 1 kid - 1.5 yr old S BD 23/05/2018 Separated since BD I moved out 20/06/2018 for my own sanity OM or just fling? Not sure...
