Still treading water

[Gordie]

Sjohn

I have felt all those feelings

The wanting the situation to end

And someone to love me for who i am

Please stop prtetzeling yourself

It will not save your m

But it will suck your soul dry

I alsk hage the bad dreams

But those too will pass

So it is the end of school

And she really is moving out

One day at a time

Anything can happen tomorrow

Hiw are the kids

[sjohns6]

Thanks Gordie. Ive stopped doing the pretzel dance. It isnt worth it. I think the change in me happened when I finally accepted that she was moving out and that our marriage was over. That wasn't something that I could talk myself in to understanding, it just had happened. Now I dont need to bend over backwards because whats the point if its over. I realize I never actually needed to, and that the marriage may not actually be over, but that realization is more of a theoretical one, the feeling that I have is that I don't need to act that way and that it is over.

Kids are doing OK, but hard to tell sometimes. They are strong willed and it takes a lot to ruffle their feathers. What I am pretty sure is going on with them is that they dont like the fact that she is moving, they dont like how she acts, and they dont want to live in 2 places, but they roll with the flow. D acts out a bit towards wife, although not always. The relationship is strained but not broken. S doesnt really show any negative signs (other than the day she told them she was moving out) but when I am able to get him to open up a little, he doesnt like what she is doing either. I feel like the kids and I are a happy family and W is more like a cool aunt with them.

Sad and interesting thing came up a couple days ago. We were out having diner with Ws brother and his family (her family loves me and is totally on my side even though they support her decisions because they love her too) and W got a call that caused her to get up from the table teary eyed and go outside to continue the call. The call was from her other brother and he was calling after a memorial service for another family member out of state. In chatting with family, he had discovered that their father (who we still are close with-his lake house referenced above) had some sort of sexual relations with their cousin while she stayed with them when younger. I believe she was at least of age (not that it makes it much better) but it was not mutual desire. Her brother was upset and called W to see if their dad had ever done anything to W. W admitted that he would often have inappropriate intimate cuddling and touching, but it was never actually sexual. I believe more has come to the surface and the family is now up in arms about it all. W is in the process of trying to move out so I am not really privy to all the conversations, but this is family history that I did not know about.

Last night I was sitting on the back porch and W came out and sat too. After a while she asked if I was OK. I thought it a weird question as she does not ask this and I don't think I had done anything to indicate that there was anything wrong. I said I was good and then asked how she was (think she was fishing for me to ask). She explained about having a conversation with her mom about the stuff with her dad and meeting with her brother and cousin over the weekend to talk. Also said her dad had been calling her but that she had not answered or called back. I told her that I was sorry that she had to deal with that and it must be difficult. Tried to just listen, she was obviously distressed. I didnt try to solve anything or offer suggestions, just tried to listen and validate.

This conversation and the revelation of the stuff with her dad and childhood has really got me thinking. I still feel detached from her emotionally, but I find myself wondering if this is some of the stuff that helped cause her MLC to begin with...if this is maybe the childhood trauma that she needs to work through. Guess it doesnt matter that much as she has to work through what she has to work through and it may or may not mean anything in regards to our relationship, but I cant help but wonder.

Well, Ive written another book here. Maybe I should post more often so each one doesnt have to be a novel.

[Gordie]

Sjohn

Woah

Our w are going through similar stuff

Absolutely think it has everything to do with the situation

If you are close to her dad

I also think that complicated things for the both of you

You say she is done

But she still talks to you

I think that means she is not done despite what she says

This is a very hard road now

But moving out is not the end

Maybe it is the space you need for this part of the journey

Peace

[sjohns6]

Gordie, I thought the same thing after reading your updates, that we are going through some similar stuff.

When W discusses the whole moving out thing, she seems to position it as she is trying to separate herself from me to minimize the pain she is causing me. She doesnt seem to think it will necessarily make her happy (not that she says anyways). She even said recently that she worries that some point in the future she will see me with someone else and Ill be happy and it will be hard for her...and this is after telling me she cant change the way she feels about me. She also indicates she will miss living at our house. Such a weird thought process. She seems to be spiraling downwards. I realize that she isn't necessarily done with me, but I worry that this will have me done with her. I did not cause her sadness and depression, but she did cause mine.

I find myself reevaluating our relationship recently. Im starting to wonder if she ever really loved me in a meaningful way. She seems to have always kept me at arms length. She has never been very affectionate and its always been me to initiate intimacy between us. When she first started up with her MLC script she talked about us drifting apart and not doing stuff together or being very affectionate towards each other. I took that to heart and tried to make it better, and of course that didnt work. What I didnt realize until recently is that she never did any of that. She never romances me or tried to bring a spark back. I know she cared for me, but I am not sure if she is even capable of loving me the way I loved her. I dont know, maybe Im starting to rewrite history to help me get through this, or maybe Im finally starting to see things from an outside perspective instead of from my own. I always loved her and was happy (despite her inability to open up much) and I just assumed she was too.

Today she told me she found a house so I guess she will finally be moving out soon. I have been spending time thinking about all the stuff I want to do with the house. Ive actually already started. Kind of getting excited about cleaning out all the clutter and decorating and rearranging the house to my liking. W isnt a slob, but she isnt near as tidy as I am. Looking forward to cleaning out all the clutter and getting things just the way I like them. D and I have been repainting her room to a color she picked out. We have been having a great time doing it.

I feel like I am slowly climbing my way out of my funk and depression despite W moving out, and she seems to be spiraling downwards. Her replay antics seem to be pretty much non existent these days. I think she might be in the depression/withdrawal stage. Not that where she is at means as much to me now since she is leaving, but hard not to notice. Mainly hard because it seems that if she is stopping all the crazy behavior and mainly just depressed that she wouldnt still be so adamant to leave, but I guess that is just rational thinking on my part...cant really expect that.

Onward and upwards...

[MarvinF]

@sjohns6 ultimately only you will know if you are done with her. But I can tell you that I have felt all the same things you say, and I alternate between caring and now. I think its all part of the process, just give yourself time and space and let it sort out. Honestly once you actually are separated out and don't interact with her you may gain more clarity.

As for love I have realized that my wife's definition of love is very different than mine. I do believe she loved and loves me, but she does not have a full mature grasp of what love is, or that in entails actual work and commitment, I think its just a feeling for her. Is this at all like your wife?

Keep you mind open that once and if she goes through the MLC process and matures she may offer a solid adult version of love. It then will be up to you whether you are still interested, but sometimes looking at the past makes us realize we have been deluding ourselves. But then again I think this is true of any relationship.

[sjohns6]

Marvin, thank you. I think what you described about your W is true for mine as well. She cant have spent 20 years with me without loving me. I think you are right, our definition of love is just different. I hope, for her sake if not for mine too, that after she finishes her journey through MLC land that she DOES have a more mature sense of what love is.

The only thing I know for sure is that I cant go back to the way things were before. If we reconcile at some point, things HAVE to be different in order for it to work for me. Her MLC has woken a dormant part of me. One that needs more out of a relationship than I was getting. I didnt even realize that I was missing anything before, but now that I do I cant dismiss it.

Ive read up on your sitch, Marvin. I dont think Ive posted to you before, but I typed something to you the other day but got distracted before having time to click Submit. Sorry about that. Think I'' head over to your thread now

[Gordie]

Sjohn6

We did not break them and despite our wishes we cannot fix them

The stuff with her dad would definitely mess up her sense of love and sexuality

How could it not

I have felt the same as you

That we are beyond the point of return

It is part of he process of letting go

Bht you never know what the future holds

And yes please make the home your home for you and the kids

Just the way you want it

Peace

[Coly23]

Hi sjohns, just dropping by to say thank you for commenting on my thread!

I was just catching up on your sitch and see that this is the second time your W is moving. This must be so tough on you and your kids. I know it was the worst time of my life.

I also agree about seeing things in your marriage that should you reconcile, you would not want to go back to. I guess that is the reason why some posters who do reconcile say that their marriage is much stronger now.

Hugs (((sjohns)))

[sjohns6]

Hey guys. Decided I needed to journal a little. I find myself having to take time off the boards on occasion.

Coly, thanks for stopping by and taking the time to catch up with me. Yeah, this is Ws 2nd time moving out. The first time was a trial separation where we were working on our relationship. This time she is just moving out. Not sure where it will lead. I think you are right about people describing the relationship being better than ever for those that successfully reconcile. It would have to be to even want to reconcile.

Gordie, I agree about the stuff with her dad. How could it not affect her. She even admitted in recent conversation that she though that she had intimacy issues and problems with getting close to people. The hard part about that realization now is that I am at that point where that doesnt matter to me. I know its part of letting go but it almost feels like too much to deal with. I see that those issues are most likely the crux of her issues, but in her state I dont see how she is ever going to work her way through that, and based on how I feel now it doesnt seem to be my issue to worry about anyways. I guess it was never my issue to worry about anyways except that I am conditioned to care about her well being. I know I dont have a crystal ball and dont know what the future holds. I know that it is possible that once we are apart for a length of time, and if she ever came to me with an earnest desire to fix things and is remorseful for her treatment of me that I might feel differently. The idea of that happening just seems like such a fantasy that its hard to imagine it.

W is still moving out. She is taking such a long time doing this it is like torture. She found a place, signed a lease, got the keys, and began moving. She made the decision to move almost 2 months ago and is ALMOST to a point where she can live there. Im ready for her to be moved out. Her slowly moving things from place to place while still being around everyday is very difficult. Not difficult in the sense that her actions are causing me emotional distress, but difficult in the sense that I accepted the idea of her moving weeks ago and am now having to live daily with her still there while slowly moving out. I cant really even start reorganizing the house the way I want until she is gone. I am STILL in limbo. On top of that, I know that I am about to lose my kids 50% of the time. So for now, I really want to be with them as much as I can. To the extent that I dont really want to go do anything while I know they are home. Ive kind of put my GAL activities on hold until she moves out, but I thought that would be done by now. I mainly figured that very soon Ill have a lot of free time and I would do all my personal stuff then.

I am hoping that by this weekend she will be moved out to the degree that she can stay there. Im tired of her sleeping on the couch. I never asked her to sleep on the couch, she does that by choice. I swear, half the stuff she does and decisions she makes I just dont understand. I know her moving out wont solve all my problems, but I spend lots of time with the kids. When we are hanging out and she isnt around, things are easier. I think that Ill be able to move on faster once shes actually out, although I know there will be a hard part at first to get past. I am already anxious to be on the other side of that part and it hasnt even started yet.

[Gerda]

Gosh, sjohn, I am so sorry you are going through this. And BELIEVE ME, I understand. I am living with a waffler for five years now.

If you have a chance to read my post on DnJ's thread from just now, i was talking about the confusion that seems so obvious in his W's behavior. I see the exact same thing here. I would see her waffling and inability to actually take the action she wants to take as a good thing, if you want restoration, because it's seems obvious that she is in a battle with herself. If all of her wanted to leave, she would not stay in such an awkward and horrible and uncomfortable situation, nor leave her kids in such an agonizing limbo.

Sometimes when I am tempted to want to D, I think about my kids having to be with my H without me and then I feel thankful that he has not left. I think your feelings on that front are spot on.

The only thing I would encourage, just so you can heal, is to take a very short time each day to disappear and do something you enjoy. Not at all to have any reaction on her but to give yourself a little time of space and healing every day. I do this in prayer; if you pray, make sure to make time for that, preferably in a sacred space or nature. But also it could be something like getting up an hour early to go for a bike ride on the river or sit in a favorite cafe reading a favorite book or magazine, just to find something to do each day that is all your own and will give you a chance to breathe without watching her playing head games with her two selves.

Sending lots of compassion and understanding your way.