One more update: My husband is here visiting today. He asked if we can go to a place that our daughter likes that's three hours away. He said we can stay in a hotel there. I told him nicely I can't go due to my work and being ill. Kind of like Jim's wife inviting herself to the movies - they want divorce and freedom yet they have no issue spending time with us when it's convenient for them I suppose.
So why can't he take her?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
He's never cared for her alone before. She's never slept away from me at night. I don't think it would be a good experience for my husband or daughter to go away alone together. I care more about my daughter's comfort and I know she'd be crying and my husband won't know what to do. It's sad but my husband was never engaged from the beginning.
He's never cared for her alone before. She's never slept away from me at night. I don't think it would be a good experience for my husband or daughter to go away alone together. I care more about my daughter's comfort and I know she'd be crying and my husband won't know what to do. It's sad but my husband was never engaged from the beginning.
Ah ok. You said he is Middle-Eastern I believe? Is that normal in his culture? I know that culture tends to adhere strictly to traditional gender roles.
Seems very unreasonable for him to expect you to just up and go like that. Might have been a bit of a temp check. I would have declined but been vague about why. That is my only suggestion.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yes he's Middle Eastern. There are plenty of Middle Eastern men who are Westernized and who help with their kids but my husband isn't one of them. Oddly enough he used to beg me to have kids the first few years of our marriage when I was working full-time and he was staying home studying. He said he'd stay home with the baby. When we actually finally had a child he said on the first or second day "men from my country don't change diapers." He made it clear I was on my own. I could have lived with that. I got an Au Pair for a while and did everything else myself. There are plenty of families where the mother does most of the child raising although my husband obviously had no idea what he was saying years earlier when he said he'd care for the child.
I think my husband expects me to be the same as always - ready to go out whenever he's available. I'm not sure if he realized yet the extent of the damage he's done. We haven't talked about the relationship now since January or early February as far as I can recall.
I probably shouldn't have given any reasons why I can't go although it's kind of obvious that I'm sick so he would have figured that out.
I'd be so happy to take my daughter on a trip with my husband to give her a fun time. I know she'd love it. She'd be so happy to have us all together, walking in the middle holding our hands and we pull her up in the air together like we used to do. I really wish to do that for her. It doesn't seem right at this time though. There's a high chance at some point I'll have tears in my eyes and my husband will get stressed and it won't turn out well.
Perhaps we can do something together nearby some other time.
Nicole - I am sorry to hear he's not as involved as a father. Coming from a culture with strict gender norms, there are tons of young men who are shedding that stereotype and being more involved fathers - from diapers to everything.
I came to post about something else that you said, and I guess it's open to other people as well. You mentioned that you would love to take your D to an activity, even with him, so that she could have fun.
I have really struggled with this - not that this is happening or I see it coming. But, what do you talk about with this person now? i feel like I don't know who my W is. Plus how do you go from separation with NC, except kids, to doing an activity and having a conversation? i just feel like I would have nothing to say to her outside of the kids. I have no desire to inquire about her life, work etc.
Anyways, I think about this a lot in case W ever invites me to do something. I am not initiating anything so I don't think that's going to change.
I can swallow my pride and emotions and be totally cool for the benefit of the kids, but I feel like I have lost how to interact with this person that isn't beyond just Hi or Hello.
Maybe I need to improve my social small talk skills. anyways, I am curious to know how you'd approach this, and others who are following your thread.
Maika, I think it would be tense but if my husband is in a good mood I think we'd just talk about whatever we see in front of us with our daughter. I'd otherwise stay quiet unless he asks something. We went to lunch together when we moved to our new place in April and my husband was in a terrible mood that day and looked down at his phone the whole time. I don't want that to happen again. But if he's acting nice and we have an easy exit strategy I think we could do it. For now I'll keep a distance, potentially for months, until I get a better sense of what's happening. At some point we'll have to talk about getting divorced or whatever our status is. For example if he wants to sell our house where he lives he'll need my involvement. Or if he moves to our current city I assume there'll be some incentive to talk about our finances and a new plan for him to see our daughter. I really have no idea, but a short excursion to make our daughter happy would be great whenever we can pull it off.
If your wife ever asks you to join a family activity and you go you can probably just kind of ignore her presence or smile politely when she speaks without engaging her. Perhaps you can ask Jim for advice too since he and his wife and daughter saw a movie together last week.
I have really struggled with this - not that this is happening or I see it coming. But, what do you talk about with this person now?
I have had the exact same problem and we still live under the same roof. At home you can try being in another room and busy yourself but with a kid's activity you both need to be engaged and it just became way too uncomfortable for me. Maybe when detachment is complete it will feel less awkward but it will always be a farce I think, doing it just for the sake of the kids because they want the parents involved. You have a good point Nicole, either they are 100% involved or not do it at all, half a$$ing shouldn't be allowed, being present both mentally and physically at the activity should be a pre-requisite. So until the day that estranged spouses can be ok in each other's presence I guess we fake it for the sake of the kids.
Arsh, in your case I don't think you can detach as fast as someone with no kids who has a partner that moves out. You have kids plus your partner is still there with you so there's only so much you can do. You almost have to turn to religion or meditation or something that you can integrate throughout your life because you can't really go many places or be alone long enough to detach. It sounds like you're trying though. You're doing the best you can do in your circumstances. Whenever you and your husband do live separately I bet it'll get easier for you quickly, although there are new challenges to living alone with kids. It would be great if you have family that can stay with you for a while.
For me it's hard to fake anything but I try to keep doing housework when my husband visits to stay occupied. It's so hard to hear his familiar voice, to see his handsome face, and to see him in front of me and yet he's no longer mine.
Thanks Nicole. Yeh, I have kinda struggled with this. But it's mostly theoretical as I don't think my W will initiate things either. I am good with that. If she wants anything, she'll have to initiate. I need that in a partner, whether it will be her or someone else.
Maika, you sound like a very decent, smart and fun guy. The fact that your wife hasn't yet regretted her decision is a big mystery. I'll have to post more on your thread about that.
All, I do feel there's been a small change in my husband. In addition to inviting us on an overnight trip today he later said his flight got in late last night so he wanted to sleep here but he didn't want to wake me up it the middle of the night. I was generally busy while he was here but he kept coming to ask me things wherever I was. Our daughter kept asking me to come and play with them so I went for a while and my husband and I talked. I told him how we're going to a nearby city in a few weeks where his brother's family lives and I asked his opinion about our daughter seeing her cousins (her only cousins who she loves). He said yes he will call his brother and he'll try to arrange to come that weekend too. He also stayed longer this time and at the end I said a slight goodbye without eye contact and he said "thank you so much for taking care of her. Thank you for everything." He was also asking if we need more money, said our apartment looks neat and clean, and asked about the antibiotics I was taking. There were other things as well....maybe it's just one of his good days but the multiple references to overnight / sleepover type arrangements never happened since he left last August.
When I mention no eye contact above it's due to me smiling at my husband back in April and he responded "don't smile at me. I don't like it." That's back when I posted about how he seemed to feel guilty. That's when things started to change a bit....right after we moved away.
I'm still not suggesting anything about reconciling but just another series of improved interactions. Tomorrow my husband will visit again in the afternoon. We'll see how that goes and what kind of mood he's in.
I don't want anyone to worry that I'll take my husband back easily or that there's even a chance he'd try to come back, but whatever is happening lately is at least on a positive trajectory. At minimum this is good for our daughter and gives me hope that my husband won't be the total monster that he was for a while forever. I feel it's important to write these updates for anyone who is currently dealing with an enraged defiant spouse.
I'll update again after my husband leaves tomorrow.
