As of now, her ex husband would take her back. They still do a lot together for the children. She got nervous once when he was dating someone. She cried and he said he would end it, i think he did end it and then she realized she didnt actually love him. So she continued on in her new relationship. But learned from this to be careful dating newly divorced guys, cause their ex wives might still have power over them. (She verbally acknowledged this line of thinking to me, im not being sarcastic here)
Isnt that the basis of these forums? To wait. To be the light house, lighting the path for your ex to eventually see the new 180'd you? Waiting for their fog of entitlement and lies to be lifted? Cause thats all it was. A scary fog that made them act that way. Its has nothing to do with who they really are. Its a fog that takes over when you suddenly enter midle age and perhaps prick your finger on a spinning wheel.
Isnt that the basis of these forums? To wait. To be the light house, lighting the path for your ex to eventually see the new 180'd you? Waiting for their fog of entitlement and lies to be lifted? Cause thats all it was. A scary fog that made them act that way. Its has nothing to do with who they really are. Its a fog that takes over when you suddenly enter middle age and perhaps prick your finger on a spinning wheel.
JujuB,
I think you're absolutely right!!! My own thoughts and opinions on the subject have evolved. In most cases I think the old adage applies, "Kick the bum out."
I've been trying to stay away from the newcomers forum because it hurts to see the unfortunate milquetoast partners of unscrupulous spouses get suckered into thinking that a second go-round is going to be better because they've become a better person. I like the self improvement aspect, but I think the end result of real self improvement is reinforcement of self respect, and that, I believe, leads to the conclusion that the kind of spousal betrayal we've suffered can't be allowed to continue. (I hope that wasn't too cryptic; I want to avoid disturbing the ardent followers of the DB doctrine. I'm fully sold on, "boot 'em out and move on." I don't have time for the BS.)
Wassock is still one of my new favourite words that I've been trying to remember to sprinkle into conversations.
In the train of this thread as it evolves - I firmly believe that my ex thought of me as her "property". Not sure of what she thinks now - not my problem. She was also during our marriage confident of her ability to manipulate me into doing whatever she wanted - up to certain limits.
Mind-reading a bit I expect that if someone does come into my life that it will hit her pretty hard. I went a bit out of my way this morning and drove by her apartment and yep - she's still there. Still alone. Perhaps wondering WTF happened to her life and her plans. It's now been 3 years since she started chasing after her guy and she seems to be getting farther and farther away from catching him - at least from the outside perspective. Generally there is complete radio silence about her and certainly from her.
From what I've read it's a major emotional event for most divorced couples when the other forms a new partnership. I like to think that my own feelings if my ex were finally able to cement the deal with her milk-man would be one of relief. No longer worrying about any residual duty or of her trying to come back to the pawn shop to reclaim her ticket. As they say on another forum I participate on under the nome de plume of a favourite piece of clothing "no take-backs!" (waves - I know that some others from here are there too)
This weekend coming will perhaps be a bit of a hit for her too. I'm having a yard sale. Getting rid of "her" stuff mostly that she abandoned but including things that she was very explicit that I not get rid of when we were married. Like a 50 year old threadbare chair that she used to pile her laundry on. Like the exercise equipment that got used twice and then put in the basement.
I had some entertainment and posted pictures online in the local Facebook buy/sell group and added creative captions to the photos in order to try to drive traffic. All the stuff is being offered for free. Quite a number of people have shown interest and have asked for stuff to be set aside for them which I've refused. None of the captions mention an ex-wife at all though. I felt that wouldn't be classy.
Even though I have her blocked I'm expect that she's seen the posting.
Yesterday since I was working from home, I was standing in the doorway between the kitchen and the enclosed side-porch listening to the wind-chimes that she had bought and loved tinkle in the gentle breeze and thought briefly - that she would have loved that moment - now gone for her forever.
Part of what prompted me to pass by her apartment yesterday was curiosity coming out of dinner last night. Being hot and because S23 had got me interested mentioning fish and chips recently we went out for dinner together (which is extremely rare for us) last night to the local fish and chip place. We had a pretty nice time although occasionally ran out of conversation topics. The waitress I remembered quite clearly from when my ex and I would go there regularly for breakfast on Sunday mornings. I mentioned as I was cashing out that they had done some great renovations since the last time I was there. I'm going to try to remember the dialogue because it was weird.
W - I thought I remembered you A - Yeah - I used to come here all the time for breakfast with my ex W - Oh - and how long has that been? A - About 2 years W - So where are you living? A - (Original village) W - And where's she living? A - (next village over) last I heard. I don't hear from or about her. W to S23 - So where are you living S23 - (Original village) W - Oh? S23 - I work out of there so it's handy A - But his mother "is" the better cook
we leave.
A bit invasive perhaps but friendly. It reminded me though about one of the "flags" that I've noticed with split couples. Who keeps the house and kids vs who "ran off" is a big indicator of fault and who was the wassock (see - I used it) in the events that occurred.
Since I was not in fact sure on whether my ex had moved in with OM or not - still a possibility - I drove by her place and now I know as much as I can know without asking. Which I won't do.
One of the things that I'm trying to figure out in part is what is up with S23 and his personality shift. Not that I'm complaining but that (sadly) I'm suspicious. It's unfortunate that what I've been through and all the reading that I've been doing makes me suspicious when people are acting out of character.
S23 is a "lot" like his mother in some of his poorer qualities. He can be very selfish, self-centered and very closed about sharing himself with others. I could perhaps describe him as a surly ungrateful son. I am, and perhaps he is, fully aware that he's taken advantage of my good nature for a very long time. It annoys me but I don't resent it if that makes sense.
From me I like to think that he has absorbed some compassion, a sense of duty and obligation to family and those who are less fortunate. But I think he has to put a conscious effort into it at times.
He, like his mother has a charm that he can turn on and off at will which allows him to be very engaging for many people. But, also like his mother he has an extremely limited number of good friends where on the surface you would think that he had lots.
Currently it feels as though he has his "charm channel" turned on me. It does feel a bit forced at times but perhaps he's just trying to be a better son / member of the family. It seems to ramp up after each visit to his mother.
I feel bad that I suspect his motives. He has been an active agent spying for his mother in the past. Much of me wants to accept this and I am, but I'm also being cautious and not too shocked when he reverts to normal and I get mono-syllabic S23 again.
Well - that's about all for now - probably far too much. Circling back one last time to the DB principles, what brought most of us here, why and how our ex spouses my be tempted to circle back, and why and how my own ex-spouse is still sitting in her little apartment. I think it just a classic case of sunk costs fallacy. What brought me here among other reasons was certainly the sunk costs of spending more than half of my life building a home and family. What has perhaps kept my ex chasing after OM (presuming she's not happy living above a liquor store with her elderly dog that urinates on the floor) could well be the sunk costs she herself has of abandoning her family and chasing after him for 3 years now. OM of course has few if any sunk costs.
Just my usual rambling disjointed thinking as usual.
It reminded me though about one of the "flags" that I've noticed with split couples. Who keeps the house and kids vs who "ran off" is a big indicator of fault and who was the wassock (see - I used it) in the events that occurred.
Maybe the DB forum could have a thread devoted to wassock flags. I think that'd be cool. It could be like the thread that provides the list of abbreviations except that wassock flags could be given a name as well as a numerical value, something like 1 to 5, that would provide a sense of how wassucky a particular wassock flag might be. You can add-up all of the wassock values to determine just how wassucky your wassock of an ex-spouse is.
Journaling - my life is not very exciting. Just some diary sort of stuff today.
A feeling lazy Sunday morning here with a big list in front of me. It's the first weekend of the month when I do a full clean of the house. I actually have been doing some of the "spring cleaning" tasks on other days giving the kitchen floor a good scrubbing last week.
Last Thursday S23 texted me asking if I could pick up Chinese food for him on the way home. It turned out to be about $50. I suspect that he ordered based on what we used to order as a family of 4. He gave me one of the fortune cookies which had some motivational phrase in it that I don't remember keeping the rest for himself. I did mention that I didn't want any because it undoubtedly had a very high sodium content. I mentioned to S23 that he could pay me back via electronic transfer. It took him until Saturday afternoon to do that, but I didn't do any reminding or nagging. He mentioned on Wednesday that he's wanting to be independent but I don't think he can see his path for that yet.
I'm at the point these days where I do wish that his mother would step up and do some of the parenting as well but she doesn't and I don't expect her to.
I'm annoyed at myself because in recent times I've been finding myself missing her. In part the "us" that we had but also her as a person. She was in a dream I had yet again last night and I could almost feel the weight of the rose coloured glasses I was looking at her through. I can't imagine her having the courage to put her feet on the path back to the home and family she had for more than half of her life. I in turn have gotten good at suppressing the urge to contact her. Other than when her parents died this past January and a stilted formal email about paperwork at the start of last month, I've not really contacted her outside of legal proceedings since I believe January 2017.
I don't know if she is keeping track of me or not. I do confess that I do occasionally post things on social media that show that I have a good life and how great my home, formerly our home is to show her what she's missing. I have her blocked on Facebook but it's easy enough to - like I do - find out in ways other than directly.
There's a fairly big lottery prize going on here right now. I rarely buy a ticket but have for the last 2 weeks. I laugh sadly to myself because I would have a high expectation that if I did win a big prize that that would indeed prompt my ex to knock on my door. There was a $1 million prize won with a ticket sold in the local city where OM lives. Perhaps it was my ex - she would play the lottery religiously every week. Checking her tickets when we would go out for our regular Sunday breakfasts in fact. We stopped attending church when the kids were little. It was always too stressful with everyone getting yelled at by my ex, us always being late after driving there too fast and sitting in the back because the service would be started. Since it was me getting people up and moving I unusually for me put down my foot and told her that if she wanted to go to church that she could feel free to but that I wasn't going to be part of the drama of getting there any more. That was the last time we went.
I'm not religious myself by my ex was at least superficially. She was very active in the church as a young girl and taught Sunday school. When we moved here we got involved in the local church and like what would often happen to her, my ex ended up sitting on the board. I used to help out peripherally and would visit our pastor from time to time and have a beer and talk politics with him in his kitchen.
In a pattern that I would see repeated over and over, my ex would get involved, get overwhelmed, get angry and then it would all blow up and there would be another group of people who she would avoid.
Yesterday was pretty good. I put out what is more or less the last of the stuff that I am purging from the house as part of the village community yard sale. I posted the items on Facebook earlier in the week hoping to drive traffic and lots of people commented that they wanted this item or that and asking me to set them aside for them. I said no - first come - first get. Well only slightly to my surprise most of the stuff is still there. Some I will put in with my recycling - the "collectable tins" but the bulk of it I will haul to the dump next week.
At the bank I had a nice visit as usual with the teller I'm fond of. She's feeling better but still no baking for me. She mentioned that she's going to make me some muffins or such with the pulp after she uses the juicer I gave her. I joked that she needed to just invite me over to dinner to which she replied "not yet". I was thinking later that in many ways we are having the typical "coffee date" thing already perhaps. Who knows. I certainly don't. Despite the opinions of everyone around me she could be just be being customer-service friendly. Keeping expectations at zero and enjoying the few minutes I get with a very nice lady.
I was surprised at the flower shop where the lady I like who works there was in as well. I had thought she was off on Saturdays for the month of June. Chatted with her as well and she told me about the large aquarium full of land snails she has which is to me odd. I did smile because as we were chatting another customer was there and sort of tried to do her purchase acting like she was feeling awkward and interrupting something. I smiled and excused myself so that the business of the shop wouldn't be interrupted.
While grocery shopping another cart banged into mine aggressively and when I looked up there was "20 something" who came over laughing at me and gave me a big hug. She seemed to be having a good day although she was complaining about the need to "adult". I think she's perhaps been putting on a bit of weight lately because the very small dress she was wearing was quite tight - in all the right places. Hey! I'm officially single - I can notice these things now Even if especially in her case I don't act.
After getting some of my wash out on the line I headed out to the old family farm for my nephew's 2nd birthday. I was a bit late but didn't miss anything. I haven't seen him or any others of my immediate family since perhaps the late fall. They were all very supportive and I saw them a lot when I was really struggling but things appear to have shifted back to the old patterns. I really liked how my nephew was not obliged to hug or kiss anyone that he didn't want to. I didn't get a hug but he did blow me a kiss when I left. Some nice pictures were taken that I posted online later. I did get hugs from both of my SIL though. I had a chance to visit with them and my brothers and cousins. My oldest brother made a point of telling me how he feels that my life without my ex will be so much better emotionally and financially. I did in fact get off reasonably well in the settlement even though things are currently tight. I also noticed that one of my cousins who had gone through a very difficult divorce a few years ago was there with a lady who I believe is his new partner.
Unlike some events at the farm this one seemed to not turn into a bigger party. I got out of there around 4:00 - got another load of laundry on the line, my grass cut etc. My appetite is still uncertain but since I'd had little through the day I broiled up a pork chop for dinner around 7:30 which is late for me. A couple of episodes of season 1 of Monty Python accompanied with an adult beverage or so and the day was done.
Well - as I write this, it's becoming overcast. I suppose I should put the stuff from the yard sale that can't take getting wet into the shed for now and get on with my day. The cleaning still needs to be done and looking around the cats are not helping.
I think I'll put on a pork loin into the slow cooker for Sunday supper and for lunch will go to the bake shop around the corner as usual. I believe that she has carrot and ginger soup today. One of my favourites.
Have a pleasant day all.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Actually Andrew it's not xWW you are missing it's the intimacy.
I think it's what you both desire and are searching for. I am confident you will find it. So confident.
Once you do then the longing you have will be satiety.
And xWW will be like an old burnt burger because you will be enjoying best filet steak. Even an old burnt burger looks like great food when you are hungry.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Hi to you too DnJ! Thanks for the visit. I'm glad I made you smile.
I had an interesting to me thought this morning about our separate situations. Even though our kids are older, I believe that their thoughts and opinions are still being formed.
S23 moved out to go to university when he was 18. He would come home for holidays but generally stayed in Oshawa. One of the plants I visit for my work is over towards Kingston so I would pick up a pie and stop in to visit on my way home. I'd also do the 3 hour rush hour drive from my office in Mississauga at least once a month to have dinner with him and visit.
When we were together his mother never went on her own to visit her son but only saw him when he came to her. S23 hates talking on the phone or even texting (which caused cursing by his mother) so they rarely talked.
After bomb-day I know that she went to see him for dinner shortly after she moved out but it was probably rare after that. He's been home for a bit over a year now and I believe that they have only seen each other a handful of times despite her literally being within (long) walking distance. He could get there in about 1/2 hour on his bicycle if he wanted to.
D25 (soon to be 26) hasn't seen her mother I believe since she and I visited her in Upstate New York for American thanksgiving in 2015. I didn't visit in 2016 in part because my brain wasn't working and in part to keep the traditional visiting day open for her mother to visit with OM. She didn't. That was a time when they were on temporary hiatus. They've moved farther away to Norfolk VA and I've visted them there 3 times and will be planning another visit when D25 calls me this morning as I drive in to work.
So the reality is that for nearly the last 5 years for S23 and for his sister, I've been the parent. I've been the one who calls, visits, writes. Their mother may call her daughter from time to time but the times she told me about it, the conversations she said were "superficial".
The key thing I think is that the "normal" especially for S23 is the life we are living right now. One where there is respect. One where he sees me living my life and managing along reasonably well as a single guy. We have a "shabby but neat" house that I think we both have a fair amount of pride in. It's a safe place. It's home. His mother isn't a factor in his day-to-day life at all but I am. He probably remembers the confused dirty place that this used to be but this is now his "normal".
I do my best to be a good example but my halo is crooked and tarnished but still intact. I've not lied and cheated. Things he knows his mother has done. Living with me was the easy and obvious choice, but he could have and still could change his mind fairly easily.
It makes me feel good that my children have chosen me. Perhaps they have also separately chosen their mother. I don't know.
Growing up, my own mother was the hub around which the entire family revolved. She kept in contact with us all. My dad was more distant. I miss them both. They've been gone for about 10 years or so. I automatically slotted my own wife into that role which in hind-sight she didn't fill.
I did some reading and writing yesterday on cognitive dissonance and infidelity and thinking about how it applies in my own situation. Interesting stuff. It does perhaps explain how my ex was able to live with her choices. I think my own thinking has become more integrated as I rebuild my sense of self.
Next Sunday is the annual family reunion for my ex's family. In 2016 while we were still in in-house separation and everything was a deep secret was the last time I attended. S23 skipped it although it was usually a "must attend" event. My ex (then WW) used to be one of the organizers but with a certain amount of drama dropped the ball much to the explicit annoyance of her relatives. The kids and I would be the ones working behind the scenes with others. Doing the setup in the park, tear down and being generally useful appliances.
Last year my ex went I believe and by herself. Her relationship with OM is now public knowledge to her family and despite whatever stories she's telling, they probably know the circumstances. Her siblings do and they love to gossip especially if it's juicy. I was a reliable fixture there as well and my absence and/or replacement would be noticed. I'm not sure if S23 will go or not. He hasn't for the last 2 years now for various reasons that are none of my concern. His mother hated the gossip or so I believed. She'll certainly not be happy about being the subject of it.
As my own life continues on a generally upward trend, I can't help but be sorry for her and the imagined difficulties she is having. It's not my role to smooth her path anywhere though. She has chosen her own path through the woods where I am already on the Far Shore.
Well - enough rambling nonsense for this morning. Breakfast is done and I have to get ready for work and for my call with my daughter.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Next Sunday is the annual family reunion for my ex's family. In 2016 while we were still in in-house separation and everything was a deep secret was the last time I attended. S23 skipped it although it was usually a "must attend" event. My ex (then WW) used to be one of the organizers but with a certain amount of drama dropped the ball much to the explicit annoyance of her relatives. The kids and I would be the ones working behind the scenes with others. Doing the setup in the park, tear down and being generally useful appliances.
Andrew,
You're lucky. There's so much inbreeding in my family that divorce doesn't have any impact on the family reunions. We're all related and we all have the same last name.
Even if especially in her case I don't act.