First timer. My story - MLC/WAW

[Davide]

I just got off the phone with the W. That was rough. Really hard. That is the first time we have spoken since I went NC. The first time we have EVER spoken without talking about the R.

She started by asking how I was, and I gave her an upbeat, chipper "good" but nothing more. I asked her how she was doing and she said "so-so", and there was a wavering in her voice. I then dove right into the particulars and logistics. I need to borrow the car tomorrow (1st time since I left the house 6 weeks ago) and I just told her I was picking it up early in the morning and would return it late in the evening so she needed to make other plans to get to the gym (she always goes climbing on Tuesdays). No resistance.

The hardest part was talking to her about her buying a new car this summer. Spending 10 grand on a car seems like a sure sign that her head is still right out the door. But whatever. I also told her to make a list of things she wanted to take from the house. Finally I told her that I wanted the dog to stay in the house with me. I phrased it like that rather than framing it as better for the dog, or fair, or anything else - just straightforward what I wanted to happen. She didn't resist at all, but said that was what she figured.

I quickly wrapped up and asked her if she had any questions for me. She asked about a doctor's visit (which I cancelled) and I just told her it was all good. Then I said goodbye and hung up.

I feel like I did everything right, or damn close to it. But it was still painful as hell. We have only spoken 4 times in the 6 weeks since we separated. I can feel myself detaching, but conversations like this are still so hard. When talking about the car I realized that I still desperately didn't want her to buy one. That it just seemed like a symbolic step out of the relationship. When she mentioned that it would be easier for her to get an apartment without the dog, it stung as well. I wasn't reactive at all, totally in control of my outward emotions, but it was crushing inside.

She has yet to even say the D word out-loud to me. But it seems so clear that she is out on this relationship. I get how early in the process I am, but she is stubborn, the most stubborn person I know, and I have a hard time imagining her changing her mind. Perhaps when she is the one out of the house, out of her comfort zone, away from the beloved dog, she will have some sort of awakening. Who knows?

I realize that I need to focus on myself. And I am proud of myself for the way I handled the call. I was cheerful, to the point, and assertive.

I have an appointment tomorrow with the author of "The Solo Partner" who is an IC and MC. I don't know if he can give me any further insights, but I look forward to picking his brain after reading the book.

[LoneWlf]

Well done- I can assure you I have the same feelings when I talk with W. It is an ongoing process. Keep strong- Stay well!!

[Maika]

Sounds like you handled it well. The first few times will be nerve-wracking, but the more you stand you for yourself, be assertive, it will not only get easier and you'll feel better, but you'll realize how the hell did you live before and let people not treat you well. Not saying you're being walked over by people, but you're a massive conflict-avoider and my guess is that your conflict style is very passive and just taking $hit from people because you think standing up for yourself is too much confrontation.

Let us know how the IC session goes.

You're doing good!

[Ste7e]

You handled it very well
It is a good thing she didnt mention D
These things take time
Now let it go and focus on you again
Maybe start a research based hobby to distract your mind

[Davide]

So, the IC I saw last night was a major flop. I came in having already processed all the ideas from the book and knowing what I was doing in terms of DBing (GAL, 180s, NC, etc...) I told him that I wanted to explore the relationship dynamics (pursuit and distance) as they specifically applied to my case, especially mixed with the depression that both I and the W suffered from. He really didn't have much to add that I hadn't already gleaned from the book. He kept saying things like I was a good guy that wasn't into porn or alcohol. It was a little bizarre. By halfway through it became clear that we were operating on very different levels and that I wasn't getting much out of the session. Oh well. I'll eat the 50 dollar copay.

In terms of hobbies, yeah, I need to work on that. Basically all I do right now is exercise (bike, yoga, rock-climb, walk) read (lots of self-help, relationship stuff, but also fiction), socialize, and watch netflix. I might try writing a short "novel" for 2nd language learners. I have been meaning to to do that for a while.

Today I received and email from a pair of students who I coached over a decade ago. It was so sweet and thoughtful that I burst out in tears and had to leave the building to collect myself. It is strange how susceptible I am to kind gestures like that. I think it is a matter of having all of my emotions closer to the surface. I think it also a sign that I am starved for affection and compassion.

[LoneWlf]

Davide, It only goes to show you that you are valued in others peoples eyes. After the BD I often question my value and self worth but as you can see you have made other peoples lives better. Keep on going!!!Stay well!!

[Maika]

I second LoneWlf here, and add that if you dig deeper, you will find that your issues are about self-worth. This is common with people who are hard conflict-avoiders because they don't want to rock the boat about what other people think of them, which is to maintain the little self-worth that external validation can bring.

Here, you have a group of students that showed you that you have value as a person and you have a lot to offer. I used to react that way too back in the day because I felt that I didn't bring anything to the table really - it was on a subconscious level and so digging deep helped me figure that out. Your emotional response to this says so much and listen to it and see what you can glean from it.

Sorry about the IC. sounds terrible. I think DBing has put you on a good path of healing, but a good IC will help more with the introspection and uncovering hidden roots of your emotions and behaviors. We're not psychologists here so we can't help with that.

As someone who shared similar traits as you, I'll tell you what helped me and is still helping me:

1. Emotional regulation and intelligence: recognizing and naming the emotions I was feeling and taking a step back to really feel it and then try and understand where it's coming from.

2. Becoming more assertive: helped me with conflict management and also not putting my needs on the side and minimizing myself.

3. Making a list of my failures and successes and putting that into context of life circumstances. When I did that, I realized that my failures weren't due to just my flaws, but in the context that I was operating, I did the best I could.

4. That last point leads to this one - self compassion: I learned to be more compassionate towards myself and I stopped beating myself up for past failures and current failures. I accepted that I was not perfect and failures are a part of life. But instead of using the failures to berate myself, I turned it around to understand why it happened and how could I improve. I turned into a lessons learned kinda perspective. The only caution with self-compassion is that if you let it go too far it just justifies procrastination and not doing things. For example, if I missed a workout, in the past I would just punish myself and say that I was not a dedicated organized and motivated person and that I won't achieve my goals, and I Would give up working out for the rest of the week. Now, when I miss a workout, I think about why that happened and if I can change the situation to make it more conducive to working out. And then I revise my plan, and focus on the next workout instead of giving up. So, I am practicing self-compassion, but not letting it lead to failure and giving up.

I hope that helps!

[Davide]

Makia,

Great insights as always!

I am seeing an IC online already and plan on continuing it. This was a one-off visit to see if he could help me better understand the relationship dynamics. But you are right that effective counseling is very helpful. That said, to be honest, I have learned more here and on my own by reading extensively than I have from therapy.

I think your last point is extremely pertinent to my situation. I have struggled my entire life with self-compassion. I have a fierce inner critic and have insanely high standards for myself. It has led to depression and feelings of inferiority for much of my life. I am definitely working on strategies to counter that and am hopeful that I am making some progress. It is an issue that I have raised with my IC and I know we will be talking about it. Ultimately, I think that is at the root of most of the issues that I have with assertiveness, emotional regulation and the like - the feeling of perpetually not living up to one's standards is incredibly dispiriting and pernicious.

That said, I just finished a phone interview for a possible new job, and I nailed it. Who knows if I will get an offer, but I was confident, assertive, on-point, and answered all their questions with specific and pertinent examples. It was quite the rush when I got off the phone.

[Maika]

Ahh yes!! The fierce inner critic. You are speaking my language bro! I know EXACTLY what you mean.

The thing is, I didn't change my standards, but I changed how to approach and think about them. Back in the day, my inner critic would tell me that I was disorganized, unmotivated, and didn't have it in me to accomplish the goal. And that would totally deflate me because it would hit up against my self-worth. The other aspect was that I was secretly afraid of failing to reach my standards. But, if I didn't really try to meet them, I could still punish myself through my inner critic and keep the cycle of self-victimization going. Even though it was bad, it was actually comforting because I just fulfilled how I perceived myself and I could feel sorry for myself.

But, I changed all of that up.

I still have an inner fierce critic, but I changed what I did with that voice. Instead of focusing that critic on me, I focused it on the situation. So, taking the workout example again, I didn't berate myself for being disorganized or unmotivated, but asked myself why did this happen? Have I scheduled my workout during a time of day that doesn't work? Am I too tired during that time of day?

I also had in my head the idea that there is a 'perfect' way to do things. So, for example, according to my 'perfect' plan - you wake up early and workout and start your day. If you didn't do it that way, you couldn't do it. I didn't even explore the idea that maybe I could do it in a different time of the day.

So, I went into 'experimentation' mode. I gave myself full permission to try things out and see if it failed or succeeded. And then analyze it and see which contextual factors allowed the greatest degree of success. I also let myself go of the 'perfect' plan idea. My goal was to workout and get healthy, so it didn't matter if I did it in the morning, afternoon, or evening, as long as I was working out. If I did it in the evening, that wouldn't matter as it wasn't the 'perfect' plan, but I actually achieved my goal of working out which was more important than the 'perfect' plan.

So, I started working out in the evenings and I realized that I wasn't still consistent. So, I analyzed why. The reasons were - I was way too tired than I anticipated in the evening; I was rushing my evening time with the kids instead of spending more quality time with them - which was of higher priority; and I was pushing my bedtime to much later which affected my sleep schedule.

Instead of telling myself that I was a failure, I looked at the factors that were not enabling my habit, and also in conflict with my other priority - spending more time with the kids.

So, now I am back to trying the early morning workout routine. But I won't jump back into it right away. My first goal is to wake up at 5AM consistently for a week and get that down. And then I will start working out once I am able to wake up in that time. I gave myself a very low threshold of success - just waking up at 5AM. Not waking up at 5AM, meditating for 15 mins, working out, reading etc etc. Just waking up and getting that success under my belt. And then add another thing.

Turn your fierce inner critic from you, and move it towards the context. And then see which factors enable the best out of you and how you can tweak it. Go experiment.

Good on the phone interview for a new job! Best of luck.

[Davide]

Yeah, I can't do 5 a.m. I am up at 5:30 for 6 a.m. hot yoga 3 days a week and I am pretty happy with myself. without kids I have time to exercise in the afternoons as well. Plus I am biking 15 or so miles roundtrip to and from work. Good on you, though.

I actually already got a call back on the job interview. They want me to come in person tomorrow afternoon. I already had the day off, so it is perfect. It does mean I will have to interact with the W to borrow the car (again) at the last second. Tough [censored] for her.