Am I Piecing, or Pi$$ing in the wind???

[artista]

This does not seem like a plan for lasting changes. You'll have to put your foot down every few days. She has no fear in losing you because all she has to do is tweek this, manuever that, accommodate you in the slightest of ways, and you're satisfied for the time being... she is selfish... And yet, you rub her feet! And still, no back rub for you! If I were you, I would make an appointment for a massage, and NOT WITH HER!

[Clyde]

arista,

As frustrating and old as this is getting I find myself asking if I should be patient in this process, that's not to say I should compromise any of my boundaries. Nor do I want to constantly be restating my boundaries and needs.

Prior to what I feel is a MLC fueled by toxic influences, my W was extremely thoughtful, caring, and loving.

Since R, I have mentioned, showed my discontent with the intimacy issues, but never put my foot down like I did in our last convo, and in doing so that has not been a problem since (granted it is way to early to see if it will be a lasting change). As far as the massage goes, yeah I would like her to take the bull by the horns and just offer me one... yesterday I was having muscle spasms and told her about it/asked her to work on my neck/back. She was compassionate and said of course, do you want to do it right now, I said how about in 30 minutes, I need to make a few phone calls, unfortunately I had something come up on a job site and had to leave right away forfeiting my massage.

Anyhow back to my point... should I be more patient, and take note of the progress that has been made? She has come a long way in the last 6 months, and it is a 180 from her standpoint a year ago... not to mention it is the complete opposite of what her toxic friends are likely telling her to do, (thankfully her communications w/them has been minimal- to my delightful surprise). As mentioned, I did make the "road back home" too easy of a road, definitely a mistake for someone who acted in the way she did when tearing our M apart. But now that she is back, that work still needs to be done, I have detached even more since R, I know she has noticed and understands that I no longer fear our M ending. I am reading DB again, seeing what tips I can get, I re-read my entire thread which helped, (a lot of the great advice I got along the way makes even more sense now being further down the road and having the luxury of hindsight).

Like I mentioned previously, I feel like at times there is a block with her when it comes to me. I don't know if it her own passive aggressiveness, a feeling of resentment, power struggle, friends influences, or just plain selfishness, whatever the case it is not conducive for a healthy M, I don't know what the answer is other than to be clear and straight forward, the big question is how to respond when that gets violated/discounted.

I read the writings of "Al Turtle" per V's advice, It was very helpful... I would highly recommend it to all.

[Clyde]

The frustration continues to mount... the latest episode:

D13 has been grounded for close to 7 weeks, she has been acting out around the house - being disrespectful to W & I, verbally abusive to her younger brothers, pretty much doing everything she knows she should not do. The normal consequence for these actions would be no tv, early bed time, phone taken away, no internet etc... non of which seemed to have an effect, after months of these consequences not being effective W and I figured out why, D13 had a acess to internet, emails, etc. via a device hidden in her room, so when she would get in trouble it was no big deal to her, she would just go hide in her room and surf the net. This is bad enough as it is but is much worse in my D13's case... she has had several infractions when it comes to her internet use. First being about 18!months ago, she started to use chat rooms to communicate w/ her friends in order to avoid being monitored at school and home, upon finding this out I dug deeper to figure out what needed to be hidden, we were fairly lucky as much of it was innocent stuff most 7th graders go through... tall tales, trying to sound older than she was and so forth... I found one correspondence both amusing and relieving, she was telling a friend about a boy in class that has tried "both pot and weed". Moving forward from that incident D13 was no longer allowed on the internet w/out us in the room. This latest occurrence is the 3rd time since that we have found her sneaking on the internet via a device hidden I her room. To compound matters D13's BF just got busted for sending naked pictures of herself to guys, (W was told this by D13's BF's Mom). Prior to W and I separating we put D13 in counseling to help her deal w/ all that was going on at home, we also asked the C to discuss this w/ D13. When D13 turned 13 she got her first phone, however internet was disabled and all text were mirrored to my phone.

This being the 3rd time D13 has done this W and I agreed that the consequences needed to be severe... we told D13 she was grounded until her actions are consistently improved, we even went as far as taking the door off her room. D13 has had a heck of a time getting ungrounded, her behavior actually got worse. Given that, we have been trying different approaches. Both W and I have taken D13 out for 1 on 1 outings even though she is grounded, this had little effect on her attitude. A week ago I told her that if she could go 2 days with out getting in trouble she could get off being grounded, she blew that chance after her 5th warning the first night (bullying little brothers, lying, rolling eyes when being warned about it so forth). I know much of this goes with the territory of being a teenager, but there is a complete disregard for anything W and I say, and given that she is constantly gravitating to the internet, what her friends are doing while on the internet, I do not want to compromise any more than I already have on the terms of her restriction, W has been in complete agreement with me til the other day.

So the W's "sister" was having a b-day party for her nephew, W had to work (I have not seen the "sister" since she made the false call to the police about me) so the "sister" wanted to take my D13 for the night so she could go to the party. My response was no she is grounded, W disagreed w/ me, said that is family she should not miss it. I did not go into the fact that they are not family, only stuck to the fact that D13 was grounded. D13 then comes out to my shop and ask what she can do to get ungrounded so that she can go, (W obviously told her about the invite), I told D13 she had her chance a few days ago, its to late for tonight's outing but that she should start putting in the work so that she does not have to miss anything else fun. D13 continued to push it all day, debating w/ me why she should not be grounded, saying that "Mom says I've been good enough to go". Away from D13 I approached W, said "I don't know what is going on, I feel like D13 is trying to manipulate the situation/us. She says you think she should be able to go." W responds, "I do think she should be able to go". I pointed out the this is the first time D13 has shown any discontent w/ being grounded, maybe this will sink in and be the catalyst for her turning her behavior around, but more importantly... W and I need to be a united front when it comes to our stances, not doing so is going to create major problems. W told me "I'm not going to lie to her". I responded "I know that you know better, you took child development and child psychology classes back in the day!" This whole convo I kept an even keel, trying to stay on track. W starts gritting her teeth and raising her voice, tells me "I'm not going to talk about this right now, I'm going to get ready for work". I responded, "we have been on the same page about her restriction, I feel that this is yet another Instance were your "sister" comes into the picture and all logic and reason goes out the door. There is more than enough time to discuss this before work, you are just choosing not to, but if you are going to grit your teeth and raise your voice then I am done with this convo for now.

[Clyde]

It has been 6 days since the party my D13 missed... and low and behold her behavior improved dramatically, her restriction was lifted last night, and providing she keeps up the good behavior she will be able to get her phone back in a week. Clearly missing the party did have an impact on her attitude.

[Clyde]

Since the day of the party my wife and I have not communicated much, I spoke with her yesterday, mentioned that D13's behavior has been good and that I think it is a good time to lift the restriction... what were her thoughts? W agreed.

I then brought up the point that it is crucial that we are a united front when it comes to the kids. Her response was, "I agree, but when I feel that she is missing out on something she should not, then I am going to say something."

Me: "you just contradicted yourself, we are either a united front or we are not, there can not be exceptions."
W: "We'll they are family, she would be able to go... you would of let her go if it was your nephew!"

I again refrained from bringing up the obvious fact that these people are not family.

Me: "No, as a matter of fact I would not of let her go... if you, I and the rest of the kids were all going as a family unit it would be a whole different scenario. But you wanted her to go alone, to spend the whole day/night with your "sister" even though the party is only an hour or 2 long... D13 has proven we can not trust her at the moment, and if there is any where that her trust and decision making skills needs to be rock solid, it would be there, when she is hanging out w/ your "sister".

No Comment from the W

Me: "Back to the point now, we need to be a united front, no exceptions... would you agree?"
W: "I never told her that she should be able to go, when she asked me if her behavior was better I told her yes, but I never told her I thought she should be able to go, I told her to go talk to you."

W is lying, changing her story as she see's there is no way to be right on her previous stance.

Me: "Thats not what you said the other day, I came up to you and said "Whats going on, Is D13 trying to manipulate us?" If at that point you had answered like you just did, the convo would of went a whole lot different. But you didn't you told me that you were telling her she should be able to go."
W: "I never told her I thought she should be able to go!"
Me: "okay, well I know what I heard but arguing that at this point is only going to detract from the main point, we need to be united in our stance when it comes to the kids. Do you agree?"
W: " I agree"

At that point I had to go as I was in the school parking lot and my S7 had just gotten out of class. I was hoping we would continue the convo at home but it went no further, I felt like I should leave it in her hands to bring up, but she didn't. Instead we went on not saying much the rest of the day into today.

An hour ago I asked her, "Anything you want to talk about"

W: "No"
Me: "So are we just going to continue to barely acknowledge one another? Seems to me like there are some things that need to be discussed."
W: "I don't have anything to talk about"

I did not pursue it any further, as much as I am hating the vibe around here, as much as I know that talking about it in a constructive matter could lead to resolve, I think it would be pursuing at this point, and not only do I have no desire to pursue her at this point, I have vivid memories what happened last time I tried to "talk things out" prior to separation. Not to mention, she is clearly showing that she will lie about things she previously said... whether it be an hour ago, a few days ago..., whenever, so whats the point! (she lied a few weeks ago saying she did not know what a teddy is 30 minutes after bringing up teddy parties, granted she apologized the next day).

Is the fact that she is having to lie about what she says resonating in her mind, is it making an impression to where she is going to think things through before saying them, will she start reflecting on her stances rather than having to be right all the time? Do I have the patience to find out? At what point is it a lost cause?

It is definitely a daily battle, I love this W. I tell myself recon is hard, buckle up! I laugh at one of my post previously made right after she moved back home... I was asking the forum if I should give her the DB book to read, and said something like "I hope my W will someday partake in this forum, sharing her thoughts and what her reasonings were through this process" (AS quickly set me straight on that idea - thanks), but anyway - I say I laugh because of how naive about this process, thinking my W sanity was instantaneously restored.

[Clyde]

Some more journaling.......

My work situation has been quite bleak... I had three big contracts get severely delayed do to permit issues. That instantly put me in a bind and left me scrambling. Mortgage is 2 1/2 months late, electricity got shut off 2 weeks ago as W made a payment arrangement (I did not know about) that she did not follow through on. At that point the electricity company demanded that he bill be brought completely current ($850) + they wanted another $300 deposit as our credit w/ them was no good in order to get the elec turned back on. I had no money to my name, asked the W what she had and she said only $400. I managed to get the bill payed by using that $400 and 5 different credit cards I have for my business, (they are all maxed out so I had to charge different portions on all 5 to make up the difference), W was right there when I was doing this. I'm currently rushing to get a small job completed so the I can pay at least 1 month of the mortgage (trying to avoid going 3 months late as foreclosure becomes a risk!). This is the first time I have ever been late on the mortgage.

Been pretty cold between W and I, quite aggravating as she was getting more talkative, looked like the last disagreement would be swept under the carpet only to rear its head again given there was no mutual resolve truly reached. This has been the classic way the W deals w/ things when it comes to the "sister"... argue, no attempt to see my point of view, leaving the door open for the same situation to unfold again another day.

W got into bad car accident sunday (luckily no serious injuries), I rushed to the scene and immediately hugged her upon arriving. I could not figure out if it was the accident or the actual hug that restarted affectionate touches between W and I, (since last disagreement there has been none), anyhow that night we cuddled and were affectionate as if all was ok. when we got home I immediately called the insurance company and dealt w/ all the details so that the W could lay down and rest as she was sore from the accident.

Next day the W had planned on taking D13 out to shop for 2 dresses for a school dance and 8th grade promotion (both are happening this week so delaying the shopping was not an option). When we had talked about that day the plan was that I was going to work, W would handle school runs and do the dress shopping in between them. I'm in the shop and she comes out to ask me if I could do the morning school run (kids are on transfers - school runs take about 45 min round trip). I didn't feel like I had the time but agreed anyhow. When I got home the W and D13 left to go shopping. I mean while got bombarded by calls from the insurance companies, rental car, etc. I was on the phone for close to 2 hours straight. At that point my work day was pretty much shot, as the insurance company was recommending that I get the W truck to the auto body shop right away as not doing so may cause us to miss out on the only 5 seater rental for the next 5 days. Body shop/rental shop was 35 minute drive one way.

I called the W to see how shopping was going (maybe if they were close to done W could deal w/ it so I could get back to work)... mind you it is 2 hours after she had left. W tells me the are just getting to the store, that they stopped to pick up her "sister". At that point I realized not only can she not deal w/ the drop off of her truck/ pick up rental, but that she wouldn't be able to do the afternoon school run as planned. I made arrangements to have S7 picked up and proceeded to take the truck to the shop. Since W was not available to pick me up from body shop, I had to wait close to an hour for the rental place to come get me.

Meanwhile W is shopping, only text from her was asking if I was able to get a rental. I picked up my boys on my way home. got home and played some soccer w/ them, around 5 I call W to see if she was going to be home for dinner (we usually eat around 5 - 5:30). W says "no we ate, we are just leaving the last store, I have to drop my "sister" off, if you want I can pick you and the boys up something on the way home, there might be some left overs in the fridge too. I'll call you when I leave my "sisters" to see if you guys want anything". This was 5p.m.

I already know by the lack of communication between W and I that day and the fact that she is w? the "sister" that I should not count on her getting us dinner so I made us dinner.

7:15p.m. w/ and D13 pull up, no call to see if we want anything like she said she was going to do.

D13 walks in wearing high heels that are not appropriate for 13Y.O. I ask if she had fun, made no mention on the heels. I did not say anything to W as she walks in, she makes no effort to say anything to me. A few minutes later she approaches me in our room and ask why I am being stand offish. I replied "I am not, you could of initiated the hello. But since you are asking, I am annoyed at the lack of communication today, on top of that I had no idea dress shopping was going to be an all day outing. You know I need to get this job do done so that I can pay the mortgage, instead i was dealing w/ the truck/rental/ins companies picking the boys."

W: "We went all over the place looking for dresses, it was hard work!"
M: "Well you killed 2 hours going to the "sisters" first, but that is besides the point, it would of been nice to know if I was going to be able to get back to work at some point today, maybe planned dinner for boy's and I etc."
W: " f@%& you, you are so insecure.
M: "No, its called common courtesy, should of known it was going to go out the window when the "sister" got involved!
W: "f@%& you.

I walked off, no sense in continuing at that point.

[Clyde]

Back too our financial sitch... during the separation/custody agreement we made in court we agreed that the W would claim S7 as her dependent. Tax time rolled around after our Recon, we tells me she is going to get her taxes done...

M: "Are we doing them separate? We should have the accountant look at it to make sure we are getting the best outcome."
W: "No, I think we should do them separate, after all that is the court order."
M: "Ok, if thats how you want to do it - then so be it." You can still send them to my accountant and he can do them separately."
W: "No, thats ok.

W ends up doing them and has $5200 coming back to her. She got the return over a month ago, (I found an atm receipt in her truck yesterday")but she has told me otherwise. Meanwhile the elec got shut off, at which point she claimed to only have $400 to put to it, mortgage is late and so forth. I did not tell her I knew about the money being in her account.

This a.m. she tells me that if I am going to be insecure, then we are done.

M: "It has nothing to do w/ insecurity, but if you are willing to be done over it then so it is. How do you want to move forward from here?"
W: "It is to insecurity"
M: "I don't see what arguing is going to do at this point, why don'y you go ask someone neutral to our sitch what their opinion is."
W: "It is, you should go to counseling and get it figured out."
M: "I've been post separation, you have not, why don't you go?
W: "Sure, get the mortgage current then you can pay for my counseling"
M: " Why do I have to pay for it, why don't we take some of that tax return you should be getting any day and attend a retrouvaille weekend together?"
W: "That money is for school clothes and stuff"
M: "Thats a lot of school clothes, I bet we could get the school clothes, pay for retrouvaille, and bring the mortgage pretty damn close to current. As a matter of fact I found an IRS website that allows you to track your return, why don't we see when it is coming so that we can get some of this stuff figured out, it would be a big weight off my chest knowing we are not in danger of foreclosure."
W: "No, thats ok."
M: "Does that mean you do not want to help me w/ the mortgage?"
W: "No"
M: "you got it already didn't you?"
W: "Yeah, a few days ago."
M: "Thats a lie, I am certain about it, one of many."

I left for an hour or two, nothin has been said since.

[Clyde]

To be clear....

Above when I asked her if she was going to help w/ the mortgage, her answer was no, she is not going to help.

[joejoe1]

Clyde,

You W still seem WW. She is highly selfish. You are killing yourself to try and save your M. How about you start saving yourself to save the M.

Your M is late. Not having home not only affects your W but your whole family. Its time to start saving yourself and detaching. Your W is seeming very toxic at the moment. She wont help with any bills, she's not communicating, and she is not even trying to understand or care about the situation you'll are in. You told her how you felt about her sister and she don't care.

IMHO distance is what you need now.

[Clyde]

Thanks for the reply joejoe,

That is exactly my plan of action moving forward (to save myself). I'm exhausted, nothing left to give. She has told about 4 or 5 more lies this a.m. trying to cover for the tax return lie. There is nothing if there is not trust... there is nothing if she is constantly going to lie, all the other dynamics fall second to that.