Newbie looking for support and guidance

[AJS1285]

Thanks Steve. You might be right, just afraid at making mistakes and srtuggling with long temr and accceptable of a split/divroce.

[sandi2]

Hi AJS1285.......mind if I just call you AJS? . I use to respond quickly to a newcomer's first thread, but I've learned that they aren't always ready to hear what I have to say. Anyway, I have been trying to give you a little time. I will touch some places throughout your thread and respond. As far as I know, there are only two former wayward wives who are here trying to pay forward some help. The wayward wife is something that is very difficult for a H to understand. I mean, he doesn't really understand the mindset of a normal woman......how's he going to understand one that apparently flipped somewhere in mid stream? Who is this stranger and what has happened to the woman you married?

I have experienced being a WW (which was pretty tame compared to what I have read), and I have observed many couples IRL and have had D throughout my family. I have tried to study everything I can find about the wayward mindset. There is surprisingly a commonality in all wayward wives. Although every sitch may vary, and every woman is an individual.......the likeness in even the things they say look as if they all read from the same script. Occasionally, I may give just a tad different advice, especially if things start coming out later in the story that wasn't present at first.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as if I am an expert at this stuff, b/c I am not. I am just a former WW who has hung around to help, wherever I can. One thing you might consider, and expect, is that my viewpoint and the viewpoints of some other LBS may not always blend. So, take it for whatever you think it's worth. I will have to say, however, there are several H's in Newcomers that have caught on quickly to the wiles of a WW.

I first joined the board when I was still wayward and was trying to decide what I wanted to do. Although DR/DB seems more geared for the couples who want to save their M, I was very fortunate to received some wonderful mentoring that talked very straight to me......which I liked. My H and I are still together, thanks to that help I received. And before you start asking me what did my H do to get me to change my mind, I will tell you that it was not my H who came to the board. Whether you are the spouse that wants out of the M, or the one who wants to save it.......the spouse who comes to the board gets the advice for him/her. It wasn't about what my H did, b/c he wasn't here getting the tools he needed. It was about what I did. (Just thought I'd save a little time, there).

I'm sending this post on to you, b/c the next one will probably be quite long. I have a tendency to try to cover too much at a time,

[Nutcrac]

Thanks Steve. You might be right, just afraid at making mistakes and srtuggling with long temr and accceptable of a split/divroce.

There is no question of any struggle here. You need to start detachment ASAP..do LRT ignore your WW. Acceptance will fall itself in place as time goes by and you become emotionally stronger.

[sandi2]

We agree to take it day by day over the next week, healthy (no drinks after work) and spend time together. It falls apart Tuesday night - she says she needs space b/c she still has strong feelings for him. I refuse b/c we had JUST talked about taking it day by day together. The next day she says she is going to move out b/c she needs to find herself. I ask if she wants to see other ppl to which she replies "i don't know". She also says I shouldn't wait for her and focus on myself.

It would have been a different story if you had said, "I think we should date other people, while you are finding yourself". The WW doesn't consider that her H might actually dump her and find some woman that could make him happier. It doesn't matter what words come out of her mouth, she is very selfish and very jealous. She might not want you at the moment, but she doesn't want another woman replacing her, either. Anytime she tells you she "doesn't know", it is code for keeping you on the back burner. If you started dating today, she would instantly want to know everything. WW's are very territorial.

Then I feel she reached out, she was getting upset as she was seeing how life would be separated (not being able to see the dog as much, going to our cabin, not getting to go on the family trip in June, etc)

She wasn't reaching out to you. She was missing the dog, the nice cabin, and the nice vacation trips. These are benefits that came in the M.........but they aren't YOU. Big difference!

I said to be clear "I am not forcing you out, I am just respecting your decision to do so".

Good answer!

While I'm thinking about it, many H's have a need to reiterate something. It's usually something like how he doesn't want a D, or this is not what he wants, or how he wants to save the M, etc. Those are things he should never say twice to his WW. It is pursuit and applys emotional pressure, and I promise it turns her off faster than you could imagine.

I

I sent the to her, asked her if she liked the apartments and reiterated that she doesn't have to leave, i don't want her to. She replied "thank you" but she feels she needs to move out.

Yep, there it is. ^^^^^^^^. Well, remember for next time, don't reiterate.

My main concern is to try and keep her from leaving as once a spouse lives the residence, chances to R drop to like 20% or something. I've been thinking of last resort, but seeing her hurting yesterday and saying "she isn't doing great" wants me to reach out and say something like "are you open to holding off on moving out temporarily?" Thoughts? I don't want to pursue, but i feel like she is looking for hope I haven't given up (since its been over a week since a last said it).

I'm with Steve, IDK where you are getting your stats, but the MR I've seen reconcile, have usually followed a physical separation. It's much better than an in-house. It may take a couple of years, but the quicker you let her go and move forward building your life without her.......that time gap stands a better chance of closing faster.

She is not looking for hope in a MR with you. I want you to understand something. When a W leaves her M to be with another man, she is done with that MR. She is not looking for hope or holding out that you will swoop in with your super hero cape and go off in the land of eternal happiness. She gave up on you a long time ago. What you imagine she thinks or feels is nothing more than your emotions wanting desperately to believe it's true. I'm sorry if I am harsher than you like, but the sooner you realize what you really have here, the faster you may actually start to turn things around.

You've been thinking of the LRT? You are in it, whether you know it or not. Whether or not you choose to be smart or stay stuck is up to you. No offense, but you can't go all melty-cheese when you see her looking like she's hurting. This is how a H gets messed up in his head, b/c he thinks she is hurting over him or she's having second thoughts. Wrong! She hurts for nobody but herself, which comes from selfishness, believing in a fantasy and not wanting to experience reality. Maybe it was beginning to feel too real for her. She doesn't want to have to choose between your dog---your cabin---your vacation trip and the OM. And, she's not going to give up OM. Yes, it would have been total pursuit. You cannot rescue her. This is her mess, she caused it, and she'll have to be the one to clean it up.

She is the type of person that runs from tough love (seriously, she ran everytime I applied it), that's why I am concerned about the proper DB.

LOL! Doesn't all waywards? They want to be spoiled, just like kids. When my mother would get a switch after me, I didn't exactly go running to meet her with a big smile. But it worked wonders in adjusting my attitude. She didn't enjoy it, by any means b/c she was sweet and a loving person. I'm so thankful she loved me enough to care how I turned out.

I'm not sure what your idea of tough love is. It is love. It is tough on the person who applies it. It is tough for the person receiving it, simply b/c they don't get to act out in a bad way. They have to take responsibility for their actions. They don't get away with disrespectful behavior. They don't get to act entitled, take advantage, manipulate, deceive, and a host of unattractive, unacceptable, negative behaviors. To me, it is looking past your own emotional pain and caring about your MR enough that you won't allow her to treat you disrespectfully. It doesn't matter if it is our spouse or some stranger, when we let people mistreat us, they won't love us. It is a fact about human nature. When it comes to women, it quad triples in nature, b/c her "in love" feelings (desire and attraction) is tied to her level of respect for her H. No respect = no attraction, no desire. Don't let the fact that she had sex with you, mess with your head. It had nothing to do with her love.

In order to get this woman back, you have to get her respect for you as a man. Being a wuss doesn't cut it. I mean, you didn't even get angry when she told you she was doing this other guy! Then she has sex with you, too. Then back with the other guy. How can you expect her to respect you when you are willing to just hug it out? It doesn't work that way with waywards. WW's respect one thing, and one thing only. The man that is stronger than she is. Instead of showing gentleness and tenderness, you need to toughen up, b/c she is going to take you on the roller coaster ride of your life!

I guess that one good sign is that 1) She isn't moving in with him and 2) She mentioned she is looking for apartments with dogs in case we reconcile. Brings me back to how she runs from tough love. How do I show her the door is open if she ends the affair through tough love.

LOL, well that was clearly a backup plan, if I ever heard one.......and I've heard a lot. It should have made you angry, instead of you thinking, "at least she didn't move in with him". Did it occur to you that OM had his reasons for her not moving in with him? Look, you don't to see if and when her door is open. Get it? She has to be the one looking to see if your door is still opened for her, and if it is......then she'll probably not be interested. Again, it's part of the nature of a WW. She wants what she thinks she can't have. She has to work to get you back again. Not the other way around. The OM is not the real issue here. It is her waywardness. I have a feeling, you spoiled her rotten, and I haven't even read past the second page of your thread. Sad to say, that many wayward W started by being spoiled too much by their H (who had NGS). He thought that it would make her happy and would show how much he loved her. Instead, it ruins her, and she feels resentful toward him and their MR.

Forget everything you knew about your W previously, b/c she is a different woman now. She has a different mindset.

Well, I've barely got on page two of your thread, so I'll have to continue in the next post.

[sandi2]

She actually just called because she found an apartment, wanted to tell me about it and that she has missed me the past few days. She started talking about how she has been feeling, how we shouldn't of gotten married, timing was bad, we were looking too much to the future. That she doesn't think she can love me the way I want to be loved, and that she is worried I won't be able to make her happy.

She missed you? Really......which part? B/c what I see is a WW talking to her jilted H about her favorite subject.......herself! Her feelings! She tells you getting M was a mistake, and she can't love you the way you want to be loved (and deserve to be loved) and she is worried (for herself) that you would never be able to make her happy. Wow, that had to have a stung. Oh, it gets better.

Here is the kicker - She asked me to be the guarantor on the lease for her new apartment:

Look, I know I am using a sarcastic tone, b/c I want to you to get your eyes opened to the kind of woman she has become. However, I am really sorry for your pain. This had to have hurt you, and I have not read past this part, so I am holding my breath that you did not agree to co-sign for her. The WW selfishness is beyond anything I can think to compare, at the moment. There is nothing they won't stoop to do if they can benefit better from it. They think nothing of using the LBH for their advantage.

Me: I'm sorry, you are on your own.
W: Wow, I have to go (hangs up)

I text her: I'm sorry, but I am not going to help you leave me. Just have your parents sign.

YES! Great job!

At first, I felt like I did something wrong piss her off, I almost immediately questioned if I should back and agree, but I stood firm. I actually don't mind signing it (doesn't mean much in NYC), but it was more of principal here.

The principle of the matter is what counts from here on out. You must stand on your standards, morals, beliefs and values. Don't compromise your integrity, b/c you pay

Well I kinda of faltered....I called her back to ask if she was okay and that I was honestly worried about her as everything as been out of character (i think this breaks every DB rule), especially having an open affair while we work through things, it was not her moral fiber. Surprisingly, it somehow broke through to her.....she isn't sure how to cope with this, the too much damage has been done and she wanted to make it easier for me (I know I am not supposed to believe it, but it was the first time I heard her speak genuinely in weeks).

What?!

We re-hatched some of our past problems to which I 1) owned up to and 2) said that is in the past and we are both different people now and going forward. I loved her and always will, and will always have the what if because we never had a shot to heal from this and try to grow stronger (showed her the door).

That is when she said let me think on it and we can talk tomorrow.

I know this is all anti-DB, but I genuinely had a moment that hit me like a ton of bricks that I don't want to put the effort in and I was done and wanted to move on. I will let you know how tomorrow goes, but I expecting her not to change and that is fine by me.

Yeah, she needs time to think how she can wiggle a co-signature out of you.

I choose not to DB because I don't think she is worth it. I deserve better

You chose not to DB? Are you kidding me? What exactly do you think DB is? IMHO, you did exactly what you should have done.

**********************************************************

Okay, I read through the posts where you are mind playing with yourself. Now you are trying to believe she had a exit affair? Whatever helps you sleep better, but I have read nothing in your thread to make me think you've been so horrible to her that she had to find a guy to scr@w to get away from the M. Did you have an affair? Did I miss something?

You seem really confused. You don't know what real DBing is. You think if you get a D it will help the pain. And now you think she's had an A as her exit strategy. ((hugs)). I think getting away from the house/town for a few days might do you some good. Don't hang around when she shows up for her things. Get the heck out of Dodge and be around some people who actually love and appreciate you. Maybe you could plan to get away next weekend? It wouldn't be a disgrace to ask your doctor for sleeping meds, or even anti-depressants while going through this mess.

Honestly a lot there. Something clicked with me in a good way, that I am not sure I could ever take her back knowing she let herself develop feelings for another man just because she wasn't happy at home. Not that I am deciding anything, but I really did have this thought of "I am not sure I could be with somebody that acts like that".

Well, your emotions may experience a love-hate swing from day to day, or hour to hour. It's part of coming to terms with it. I've not been in your shoes, but I have learned a few things over the years from LBH's just like you. Please take good care of yourself, and be your own best friend.

((hugs))

[SteveLW]

AJS, you're very light lucky to gave sandi take an interest in your sitch. Pay heed to get advice!!

[AJS1285]

Sandi,

Thank you so much for your in depth analysis. I really do appreciate you taking the time to go through it in such detail.

I feel like you may cringe through........I saw her today for a few hours since last Sunday as we agreed to talk through the logistics of her move, separation, possible mediation, cabin upstate etc. I stay cordial, confident and strong MOST the time. Did have a few minutes in there that did qualify as pursuit when we began to re-hatch/review our marital history. She said simply that she was falling out of love with me the past few months (due to fighting - which was a problem in our MR) and happen to fall in love with her co-worker (EA then PA in Dec, March, April). I accepted how she felt, made sure not to downplay the connection, but said the affair was not justified and unacceptable.

We stopped talking about what happened and just started talking about how to handle the dog, what furniture she was taking etc. She was packing to go and before she left we did both at one point start crying and hugged each other when we both literally at the same time says "this [censored]". Smiled and said goodbye.

The second she left, I said to myself "ok, she is gone, time to GAL and 180/LRT". Maybe I am having slightly better days but I do feel stronger. I keep coming to this board because I know I need the support and I am getting it - THANK YOU ALL BTW - especially Steve85, Nutcrac and SANDI!

Two quick last questions:
1.) Literally going to read LRT/180 technique everyday, any advice for my specific situation? I won'y see her much if at all over the next 2-3 weeks.
2.) In preparing for a few months of DBing (hopefully she doesn't mediate/file right away), how have people handled family members (mom, dad, etc) pushing for me to mediate/file to as they put it "get this done and behind you"? I don't feel like example DBing to them, nor do I want to or should.

Thanks again all!!!

[AJS1285]

Oh btw - not sure if it is important, but a few times tonight she individually brought up and was visbly very upset/showed lots of remorse about what she was doing to me. She said she hasn't slept, has anxiety and can't eat (I know don't believe what she says, but she did show me her Fitbit - looked same to mine). That it kills her to be doing this, that she has gone back and forth of starting over with us and improving our MR and with the OM. She just said she is following her heart because her and the OM are very much alike and we are very different (which we always knew and she brought up multiple times during our MR). She doesn't want to take the chance one me to change my behvaiors only to regress weeks/months later (admitetly this is true - mostly around listening).

Not sure if it is relavent, but did read that Waywards usually don't show remorse.

[Nutcrac]

She is just trying to get sympathy from you by showing guilt and observe your reaction. Just dont show any emotions.instead be strong and validate her feelings. Somewhere deep down they do have a feelimg that they are doing something wrong. However its all covered by their outward behavior that they are showing. So dont fall into her games. Instead ignore abd do LRT and GAL

[AJS1285]

Thank Nutcrac. She actually texted me this morning asking "how I am today?"

Everything tells me to respond back "Good!" or something mysterious, but since my gut is the opposite of making things better, not going to respond at all.