Dusty - that's awesome. Such a breakthrough to be able to be comfortable in your own skin around W. I know it's hard as I've been on the same journey. Kudos man!
Thanks for the author recommendation. I will check it out. I've had a realization lately about self-worth that I'd like to share. A while back I made a list of my failures in the MR, as W reported to me, and others that I considered failures. I then put all of them in context of how I was feeling during those times and what life circumstances were. I realized that for many of them I did the best I could with what I had. If I had sought help for my depression earlier on, I would've probably corrected many failures. But lesson learned and IC has been a savior.
On the other side, i also wrote down honestly what my good qualities were. And I was hella happy with what I believe are awesome things that I bring as a person. And I realized that those are things that are attractive to other people, and would be to women. So, I knew at that point that I could be a great friend, partner, father, etc etc.
Doing this exercise, coupled with having some fun harmless interactions with some women and other people, I realized that I wasn't imagining those good qualities about me, and that i truly had them.
So, I went from believing that I was worthy, to trusting myself that I was worthy. That simple distinction is huge. Working on believing meant that I had to constantly, even subconsciously, find evidence that my belief about myself was true. When I switched to trusting my self and that I was worthy, it took my self-worth and self-esteem to a different level. I am no longer trying to prove to others, but more importantly, to myself that I am worthy. I know that I am.
IC has helped me with vulnerability and shame and those are key issues to work through. I am glad your IC is doing that with you. But, try and move from belief to trust. It's like a burden just got off my shoulders. Also, it is giving me natural confidence and honestly, it's exhilarating. I no longer need other people to validate my beliefs about myself. I trust myself and am introspective enough to know that I am not fooling myself.
M.... My IC actually studied with this auther to learn how to apply her techniques in her practice, so a lot of what she preaches resonates with me. After BD I took a real hard look in the mirror to understand what the hell happened to my life and marriage, was there anything I could have done different, better, for some stupid reason my XW convinced me that it was all my fault including her A. It took me a couples months before I had an awakening of sorts, it was my IC who challenged me to create a list much like you did before I started to realize who I was and what I wanted to become.
The first step was becoming healthy physically, I now work out 5/6 days a week, lost almost 70lbs, and I feel amazing! Then the mental work started, I read a bunch of books including the DR, I feel I have some new tools to succeed on my own as a single awesome father! My kids will benefit my much needed change!
I went on a couple dates and I now know that I have a lot to offer, this is something I really questioned a year ago! This site, the DR book, and GAL truly is to save yourself, not your marriage. Without these things I have no idea where we would be at!!!
Keep up with your posts, the make a difference with me!
You summed it up nicely neffer. It is about loving ourselves and having that trust within us.
dusty - sounds like you've done a helluva lotta work man. Losing 70lbs, that's frikkin' awesome. The first that I noticed from the changes was how it had a direct positive impact on my kids and me also transitioning to this version of fatherhood.
I am warming up to the idea of dating and for the first time recently, I don't feel icky about it - I do feel like i am a single person now rather than the husband brain creeping up. I told myself that I would give myself one full year, which will be end of June, before I make any decisions on what's next. I needed that time with myself to figure out so many things and do a full autopsy of life and MR to give me a clear picture of what I should do next. I believe I am getting there now.
Just like your XW, everything wrong was thrown at my feet and W didn't take accountability for anything. It did take me a while to really parse through her complaints and realize that 80% of those were not my fault and it was her own undoing and challenges. The 20% where I went wrong, I owned up to it and started improving myself diligently. I know she hasn't done the same. I wish that she would, but it's not my issue.
I am super grateful to this community and the resources. I don't think I would've been at this place without it. I am looking forward to the Brown TED stuff and the books.
The physical work I have done obviously was jump started by the BD, I literally didn't eat an ounce of food for a month! Then I found this site and it changed my life! Not only has it become my new way of life(eating, working out) but the positive impact on my kids is really starting to pay off, they want to go with me whether it's biking, kayaking, walking, whatever, they want to be with me.
Dating, I did meet someone and went out a few times recently, had a lot of fun but...... I realized that I am not ready. I am not ready to invest the time needed to build anything with anyone and I had to tell her this. She understood as she went through this a few years ago. I have too much stuff I want to do for myself. So tread lightly there.
The list... I have an actual list that my XW wrote out and gave me of all her complaints of my issues. I have kept this list, it's kind of a dear John letter, of course we know this is what they need to do to convince themselves of their decision. I too went through this "list" and worked my ass off on the things I agreed with. My XW has not put the work in, she saw an IC a couple times last year and that's it. So she must be cured?? lol
dusty - yeh I've done the same. First the weight loss was due to not being able to eat well and sleep either. But, it leveled out and I got in gear and started doing stuff for myself. I am quite sure that I am nowhere ready to invest in someone when I step out into the dating world. I just really miss the intimacy and physical connection as well.
My W still hasn't been to IC and I don't know if she ever will. I think it scares the bejeezus outta her. But, as that is my first requirement if she ever came around, she'll have to get over her fears. But honestly, I don't think it's turning around. I know that she has been in a depression coupled with some really drastic changes in her life in the last 2 years, I think she has classic signs of a MLC. But, it doesn't matter to me because it's not changing my game plan. And what I read from the MLC board, I don't have years to spare for her to go on her journey and come around. I am still young enough to find a partner that would be good to me and meet my needs. Unfortunately for her, the ship is very close to having set sail.
J9 - yeh, end of June/early July is the tentative timeline when either of us can file for D. I've had it on my mind for a while and I am more comfortable with the idea as each day goes by. In some way, I think I need it for taking my mental health and sanity to the next level. W still occupies more mental space than I want her to, and I need the D to feel whole again. I need her to officially be out of my life. I know it's a stupid piece of paper, but I feel that I won't reach my full healing potential until it's done. So, let's see. I haven't scoped out any lawyers yet, but I know a few in town and I might start putting out feelers in June and see. I believe that I am ready. I also don't know if I will fully be able to date and get out there if I am still technically married. Maybe I am just too old fashioned.
M - IMO having just gone through the process, the piece of paper helps more than you think and I did not even think about putting myself out there to date while being separated.
Early on I agree the paper won't help because processing the emotions still has to happen but for me, when she told me she was ready to move forward with the D I did feel a huge weight lifted off of me. I understand where you are coming from.
As far as dating goes, it was my personal preference to not because technically I was still married. So yeah probably old fashioned as well . I also didn't want to be in a situation where I had to explain myself, still married, but separated, blah blah.....I was too self-conscience. I still kind of am just about a month out from it being final.
I have a buddy that I play basketball with tell me that when he first started dating and ladies found out how recent he was from being D'd some of them told him that they were not interested because of where he was at or where they thought he was at mentally. I guess they were looking for something serious and thought he wouldn't be able to provide.
It's good to keep hearing of your progress! Does your wife know about your plan to file after year? I wonder how she'll react when you initiate the process? It'll be interesting to see if that's a wake-up call for her. It's too bad she's drifting along in life without seeking counseling for herself. At minimum you're a good role model for her and an awesome role model for your kids! That's amazing you went through depression because you'd never guess from all of your posts and how you're feeling now!
J9 - Thanks for the post-D perspective. Yeh, I think I am similar to you in that regard. Just won't feel comfortable until D is either in process or done. I understand your buddy's take on post-D dating and how women won't take you seriously. I don't plan on investing too much anyways, but we'll see how the scene is when I am ready. Not sure what's out there right now but I am a bit curious.
Nicole - W doesn't know that I am seriously considering filing. I will look at what are the options and see if we can do it in a way that is quick and clean and less costly. I don't know how she'll react to it, but she had brought up D once just after BD, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. Not sure if she'll initiate it - if she does, even better so that she owns that decision. But, I honestly don't care if she does it or I do it, I am going by what I believe is going to work for me.
About depression, yeh, I have basically been in and out of that type of state for a very long time. I've had many traumatic events in my life since early childhood and I always figured out how to survive since I was 5 years old. Unfortunately, that encoded within me a very particular way to react to adversity and I didn't even recognize that my reactions were destructive for me personally. I minimized myself as much as possible, put my needs and wants aside for everyone else, tried to always play peace-maker, always sought validation from the outside, never believed I was worthy, and so on.
I never even recognized that I was depressed. I had developed the reaction that I was always a survivor and that I could just survive traumatic events by myself. I was also ashamed to ask for help and thought it was weak behavior.
BD brought that into perspective. I recognized that what I had gone through in life was truly traumatic and I had to seek help for it. It wasn't something I could just overcome through sheer will.
So, I started IC, which started helping me ask hard questions and started to unpack all my behaviors and reactions rooted in the trauma, and finding ways to practice actions to overcome them. I am not out of the woods yet, but I am so much more self-aware and I listen to my emotions and thoughts a lot more closely to understand what I am feeling and then maybe why I am feeling it. I process it and then not let it affect how I am reacting to things. Simple example is if I see that I am feeling annoyed at something my kids are doing, I pay attention to that feeling and see if I am actually annoyed at the kids or I am feeling tired, annoyed, upset about something else and just projecting it to what the kids are doing. That allows me to take a step back and self-reflect. Once I recognize that what the kids are doing is not actually annoying, but something else that happened in the day is affecting my mood, I relax and let it go.
Some other things that have helped me greatly is taking accountability for my life and my actions. I always blamed external things for why my life was crappy or why I wasn't getting ahead in life. And yes, there are external events I had no control over and I could just stay in a victim mindset, or recognize that I was a victim of it, but I can make different choices.
My IC told me a couplea things that really helped me. She said that when you're a kid, you have no control and are recipients of whatever is going around you and other adults. So, you should forgive yourself for that time of your life because you had no control. Even in adolescence, you had little control, and so forgive yourself. But, when you reached adulthood and were out in the world, you achieved that control and now can make decisions to positively impact your life. So, now you have to take accountability and stop blaming external events. You can view external stuff as constraints, but what can you do about it in relation to your goals and life.
Once I took that accountability on and started to forgive myself, it was a huge turning point.
The question that I ask myself now is - Not why is this happening to me but, what did I do to allow this to happen to me?
This shift in thinking has totally changed how i look at things. I am no longer a passive recipient of life, but I have agency and I can exercise it and not let people walk over my boundaries.
One other piece that really helped me with my goals and thinking was this article by Benjamin Hardy called 'Willpower doesn't work'. Google it. Very powerful article - he wrote a book about it and it is well researched. Changed the way I look at my goals and decisions.
So I attacked my depression head on and I asked for help. I put in the work for myself. I took responsibility for myself and held myself accountable - instead of me beating myself over and over again for my failures (which I did in the beginning of this process as that was my natural reaction), I slowly started feeling empowered. And with every decision I made I felt that power and control come back in a very positive way.
So, I stopped wallowing in my self-pity and victimhood and realized that I had a lot of power to change my circumstances and meet my goals. And that is precisely what I am doing now. I have my setbacks, but instead of giving up and feeling depressed about it, I let myself feel the failure and disappointment, and then I start planning how I am going to bounce back.
Last week, I had a huge emotional breakdown and I relapsed into smoking. I justified in my head as I am just going to have cheat week. But now I am in the second cheat week and I know that the addict is rearing it's ugly head back. So, I have planned to quit after tomorrow and restart the clock on the quit. The change now is that I believe in myself as I have done it before, but I am also determined to not a small failure control everything and ruin all my progress. I am just mentally stronger now and I know that I have it within me to succeed.
You will read this in the article I mentioned, but one thing stood out to me and I have it on my wall - a quote from Michael Jordan. He was asked how he could be so on top of his game for so many years and train hard.
He said - "I spent a lot of time thinking about what I wanted to do and why. But, after that, once I made the decision, I never thought about it again."
I read that every day and know that I am ready for that mindset.
. I also didn't want to be in a situation where I had to explain myself, still married, but separated, blah blah.....I was too self-conscience. I still kind of am just about a month out from it being final.