A year after Retrouvaille, unsuccessful marriage counseling, 3 months of me out of the house and 3 months in-house separation, and I still need to slow down? My wife said she didn't want to be married to me over two years ago already.
Is giving an apology letter not part of DB at all, or is timing just important? Another friend I've been talking to has been recommending Lee Baucom's Save the Marriage system, which seems to have a few large differences with DB. An apology letter is an essential part of, as is building connection and consistency. I've also been learning and implementing a lot of good skills from the Gottman website about turning towards emotional bids, repair attempts, rituals. I read something about letter writing today in the DR book, too, but I'm still working through that book. I don't want to continue researching and researching while my marriage just slips away because I'm not taking any action. An apology letter is something I haven't done yet, and I think it is something that is missing.
The biggest things I feel the time pressure from is my wife's current job ending at the end of the month, my thesis being due mid-july, and no concrete job, housing, or divorce plans in place for myself or my wife.
I guess knowing it will take months or years to sort out is good to keep in mind, but I would hate for my decision to not move be the thing that makes my wife finally file for divorce. I keep wondering why she hasn't already.
I think I'll post again tonight about why I think I need to write an apology, hopefully that helps me with writing the actual apology. Right now I'm going out to GAL!
Me:30 W:31 S:4 M:7 T:12 PA: 5/6/18 - ? W moved out 7/18
I write about this all the time it is called the illusion of action. You feel you have do something to stop the D when in reality it is the exact opposite.
You need to take the focus off your W and solely place it on you and your son. You need to get to a place where you you have a great life for your son and you and if she wants to join you great, if she does not that is ok too.
A person who loves and values themselves is not going to tolerate a spouse having an A and telling them for two years they do not want to be married to them.
Writing apology letters. Building connection. Those things are great when you realize you need to be a better husband and your wife is still invested in the MR. Once she says she wants out, those things come across as desperate and pathetic.
Lots of marriage saving advice out there is for fixing your MR when you both still want it fixed. You have to be careful with those tactics for a WAS. MWD advocate DBing because those tactics work when your spouse has already checked out of the MR.
I would not write a letter. If you do I would not give it to her. Detachment, differentiation, 180ing, GAL and being the best you that you can be.
Pursuing, pressuring, trying to control doesn't work. And writing apology letters is pursuit and pressure and could een be controlling if you do it trying to get a particular reaction.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So I didn't write the apology letter. Not that I decided not to, but more because I am anxious about writing it and I typically don't follow through and complete tasks I am anxious about doing.
I did get a nice blank card and wrote her a note of appreciation for mother's day though. I left it on her pillow, but I don't think she even opened it last night.
This morning I was shaving and she stopped at the bathroom doorway to ask me if I had RSVP'd for one of my cousin's weddings coming up. My aunt just messaged my wife asking about it. I think she asked if I was going to go by myself, which probably was a question of if I was going to take our son with, but I asked if she wanted to go (duh, of course not). She said it would be weird for her to do things with my family when she wanted to separate. Then she asked when we could talk more about that, saying there were forms and schedules we had to work out. This was the first time she had brought up divorce in a calm way and not after a heated emotional conversation. So I calmly said we could talk about it this weekend. I have a consultation with a family law office this Thursday, but my wife doesn't know that.
Then we were both in the kitchen, she making her coffee and I my breakfast. She was making some trivial conversational statements: "My dad has a pour-over coffee maker that makes better coffee than my french press" Me: "uh-huh" Her at the sink: "We've got ants again, think I can wash him down the drain?" Me: ... Her: "Are you icing me out?" Me, after thinking what to say: "I'm just trying to protect myself." Her: "By icing me out?" I am really trying to stay calm here and not blow up on her about her trying to make light conversation after just making plans to work out a divorce with each other. I don't remember what else was said by each of us exactly, but she was upset as usual that I wasn't saying anything to her when I felt I couldn't talk to her. Usually my thoughts are racing with things I know I shouldn't say out loud or I think I can't say, and there's no room in my mind in the midst of that to stop and just say "I can't talk about this right now", or "I need some time to think, I can't talk to you right now or answer any of your questions."
She said all she's ever wanted was for me to tell her when I am upset. Well yeah I'm upset now because she wants a divorce and she's acting like it's no big deal! How am I supposed to tell her that? Like she's blaming me right now for not putting her or our relationship first. Really? Right NOW you're upset for me not putting YOU first!? WTF!? And that's why I'm silent, because it's taking all my concentration to stop myself from exploding on her with that. And I'm thinking she ought to be appreciating my restraint.
She also said "I don't think you understand what is happening here," which I think she meant about the reality of her wanting a divorce and there being nothing I can do to stop it or change her mind. I think then is when I told her "I need you to end this conversation right now" because apparently she hadn't understood that herself. She sighed, annoyed, the way I used to when she used to ask me the same thing and she was emotionally flooded during an argument/discussion/conversation/whatever. I wanted to tell her I understand a lot more than she thinks I do, and she's the one who doesn't understand how wrong of a "solution" divorce is to our problems right now. And that I understand she's had(having?) an affair and that she doesn't understand how much of a betrayal that is. So yeah, I think I get to be silent right now and she can be the one to "deal with it".
Now that I'm a bit more cooled off and have written this down, I wonder if I should go talk to her about what happened. I still don't want to tell her what I was really thinking. And actually I'm not sure if I am all that cooled off. Writing down my angry thoughts has made me a bit more angry at the moment.
I want nothing more than to talk to my wife about my feelings, but all my feelings lately are anger and sadness and fear about her giving up on our marriage and having an affair. And she says things like all she's ever wanted was for me to talk to her about my feelings more. I don't think I can do that with her if she is constantly reminding me she wants a divorce. Feels like a trap, like she's asking me to share my feelings and then she's still going to use that to tell me it's too late or not good enough.
Me:30 W:31 S:4 M:7 T:12 PA: 5/6/18 - ? W moved out 7/18
The last thing you need to do right now is talk to your W about your feelings. She doesn't care about your feelings right now. She might want to convince you that she does, but she doesn't. You really need to read Sandi's rules and other threads. They will help you more than you know right now...
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
Do as mtb says. And concentrate on the detachment and validation threads. You were very passive-aggressive in your interactions with her in the kitchen. That is not loving detachment. Nor validation.
Should have:
"My dad has a pour-over coffee maker that makes better coffee than my french press" Me: "Oh yeah, I've heard are really good especially if you grind your own beans."
Her at the sink: "We've got ants again, think I can wash him down the drain?" Me: "Yes, torch that little sucker with hot water and wash him away!"
She also said "I don't think you understand what is happening here," which I think she meant about the reality of her wanting a divorce and there being nothing I can do to stop it or change her mind. I think then is when I told her "I completely understand. You want a divorce. There is nothing I can do to prevent you from doing that if it is what you want. It takes two to make a marriage but only one to make a divorce. So while I disagree with the decision, I have to let you go."
Those would have been a lot more productive. Detachment is not being mean, or silent, or "icing out". Read the link. And then study the validation link.
Otherwise, you might as well just go file for D yourself.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I write about this all the time it is called the illusion of action. You feel you have do something to stop the D when in reality it is the exact opposite.
You need to take the focus off your W and solely place it on you and your son. You need to get to a place where you you have a great life for your son and you and if she wants to join you great, if she does not that is ok too.
A person who loves and values themselves is not going to tolerate a spouse having an A and telling them for two years they do not want to be married to them.
Something to think about.
ABSOLUTELY NAILED IT!!!!! WHne I did this it canged the entire dynamic of the situation.
Me: 39 W: 38 S: 15 D: 12 D: 6 BD 8/15 NEED SPACE S 2/16 Divorced 4/17 and loving it, waw came back 12/17.....I declined
I want nothing more than to talk to my wife about my feelings, but all my feelings lately are anger and sadness and fear about her giving up on our marriage and having an affair.
DO NOT DO THAT OR YOU WILL REGRET IT BIG TIME.
Right now you cant make your sitch better but you can make it worse.
Time and Distance along with strong actions is the only thing that will turn this ship around.
Steve85, I think you are right and I wish I said the things you wrote. I also probably should have recognized that I would be unable to speak with my wife like that and just stayed out of the kitchen entirely. The fact that she said those things at all caught me by surprise because I expected her to continue being cold and distant to me as she has increasingly been the last two weeks. The entire interaction I think just got added to her "this is why I want a divorce" mental log.
I think my withdrawal in the interaction was also influenced by some other thoughts I was having or feeling when she said those things. She had just bought the french press a month ago, and has been complaining about it recently saying the coffee was weak. So when she says she saw something better, I think "There she goes again, nothing's ever good enough for her and she wants to go buy something else new", which brings up feelings of how I think she feels about our entire relationship. And when she said there were ants, I felt defensive, expecting criticism or blame for there being ants in the house. So yeah, I think and feel a lot of things and blow opportunities for positive interaction.
Me:30 W:31 S:4 M:7 T:12 PA: 5/6/18 - ? W moved out 7/18
