I am a newbie here as well, and I was struck by the similarities of our situations. I am 41, my wife 33. It looks like she is stuck in the throes of a MLC and is WAW. I left the house to give her space a month ago and am struggling with the exact same emotions as you are. I have only text/email communication with her for the most part, only met once in 4 weeks to talk. It is really hard. I don't know how much advice I can give you as I am living the same roller-coaster of pain as you are. For me it has been a revelation to realize that this is all about her MLC and the only thing I can do is try to hang on for the ride, give her the space she needs, make the changes to myself and hope that she realizes her mistake at some point.
Recopied from another thread because post was blank - Cadet
Last edited by Cadet; 05/08/1803:12 AM.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I am new here and wanted to share my story and ask for help. my wife and I have been married for seven years and together for eight. I am eight years older than her and she is thirty three. We were married in Colombia, where she was from and I was living there, there is no language barrier as we both speak Spanish and English fluently, and then shortly moved to the US where we have been living ever since. We have no children.
The first years of our marriage were good but my wife fell into a very deep depression. She was away from all of her friends and family in a new city where neither of us had any friends or family. She had no job and no direction in life. She had long planned to escape Colombia and move to Canada and had actually gotten a visa to live there but gave it up to live with me. Her desire for independence was always strong. She spent three months in Canada trying to get it out of her system during our first year in the states, and she traveled back to Colombia once a year or so for three to six weeks at a time without me, to spend time with family.
Despite the independent streak, which I supported in order for her to be happy, and the depression, we had a very positive relationship. We were kind and loving with one another and really made an attempt to make one another happy. It was hard during her depression because I realized that I couldnt make her happy, that she had to do that on her own, but I could be her rock, her support, holding her while she cried and lifting her spirits when I could.
In the last couple of years my wife had come out of her depression. She found a job that she could tolerate and more importantly began to construct a social network of friends in our city. At first it was just people who lived in the neighborhood who frequented our local bar, then we started rock climbing and she met more people there, and then we started doing group bicycle rides and she made some close friends there as well. It was great to see her come out of her shell and enjoy life again.
In August of 2017 I fell into a pretty bad depression bc of a traumatic incident at work that bothered me greatly. I never fully communicated with my wife about how traumatized I was but rather lost all motivation, gained 15 lgs and loafed on the couch much of the time. I was not great to be around, but at the same time I always expressed my love for her. In fact, I probably demanded more and more attention from her because I was depressed.
We took a trip to Italy in December and had a couple of huge fights, as well as some wonderful times, and we began to talk about going to couples counseling. We ended up putting it off as my wife was schedule to go back to Colombia for three weeks in late February to early March. Something about her trip motivated me to get off my butt and start exercising more. I remember that I cleaned the house from top to bottom before she came back. I waited at the airport for over an hour to pick her up at one a.m. and... what a let down. From the moment she came back she was cold and distant. Everything about her was pushing away from me. She was never hostile but it was clear that she didnt want to be around me. It broke my heart to watch her eyes light up when she saw a friend at the climbing gym for the first time after the trip. Her eyes never lit up when she saw me.
At that point, I completely changed my behaviour. I got off my ass and did the dishes at every opportunity, I took care of weeding, I collected all of my mess that I had strewn around the house, I mowed the lawn, etc. I also probably smothered her with attention and affection. I knew something was seriously wrong and I reacted out of desperation.
Shortly thereafter we started therapy over Skype with a counserlo in Colombia. But after just a few sessions it seemed clear to me that my W didn't want to use the therapy to strengthen the R but rather it was an oppportunity to tell me all the things that she was afraid to say, namely that she didnt want to be married anymore. She needed space, and since I am a teacher I offered to travel for the summer to give her some space.
The big BD was when I asked her out on a date. I had planned a whole surprise evening, going out on bikes, which she loved, taking the new light rail, and going to a restaurant she had never tried but would surely like. Of course she was completely closed down to me at that point and seethed throughout. That led to a teary conversation in which she said that she regretted ever getting married, that she didnt love me the way I loved her, and that there was absolutely nothing I could do to change her mind.
After more tearful conversations the following day, I moved out of the house. It was horrible. I had no place to be and no friends offering me a place to stay beyond the first night. I left the car with her, we only had one, and took off on my bicycle with as much clothing and personal items as I could carry in a backpack and a duffel bag. For the first few days she sent me texts telling me to take the car, or offering to move out herself, or even to try to coexist better. But she works from home and it would be very complicated for her to leave. At one point after a solo session with the therapist she suggested an 8 week plan to work through things while living separated. I expressed some skepticism because it seemed to come more from the therapist than from her, but at the end I said I would do it. At that point she want radio silent for nearly a week before saying that she couldnt start that type of process now because she couldnt enter into it with an open mind, she wanted the relationship to fail.
Over the following weeks I settled into a more stable housing situation until the end of the school year. I also started talking to a therapist on my own as well as reaching out to all of my friends and family. I realized that there is a lot of work that I could do on my own. W and I finally talked on the phone after two weeks for the first time. She was weeping throughout most of it. She is wracked with guilt and sure that my family and some of our common friends hate her. She also cares for me and my well being and hates that she is putting me through this. It was a relief to hear so conflicted. That said, I tried to assuage her guilt and help her work past that. I realized that guilt isnt going to get us back together.
We talked a few more times though she seemed more cold and distant in those conversations, and finally we set up a time to talk in person. Shortly before the meeting I stumbled upon the LRT for the first time and it made perfect sense to me.
We spoke for over an hour and a half in a park. I went into the conversation with a strange sense of peace. I think that I felt that I was ready and okay with nearly any outcome. I was composed and joking and remarkably positive throughout. She brought our huskie mix and she freaked out when she saw me, running and jumping on me in elation. It was a great icebreaker and started things off positively. W was in tears before she even reached me and we exchanged a long hug, one of several in the evening. She was still wracked with guilt over the pain she is causing me. Much of the evening was spent with me consoling her as she wept. She even remarked how I seemed to have changed and grown over the past few weeks. Even my physical appearance shocked her. Biking every day combined with loss of appetite due to stress had led me to lose over 25 lbs.
After we talked about silly housekeeping things I launched into my speech about how I felt over the past eleven months starting from the incident at school up until that day. W listened and let me talk. She really lost it when I talked about the frustration that I felt after I had supported her through three years of depression. I also added on how while this was a simply horrendous situation that it had also been the impetus for me to make a number of changes for the positive in my life and it had helped me grow. It wasnt bullshit, in that moment it was true.
At the end W told me that she didnt think it was fair to blame it all on the depression as she had been thinking of leaving as early as last spring. But it was clear that the depression and difficulty in living with me played a role. I told her that I saw love in her eyes even as recently as this January and she didnt deny it but said that it was waning at that point.
She told me in no uncertain terms that she doesnt want to be married. That certainly didnt come as a shock at this stage of the game. Whether or not that is permanent is unknown. I simply told her that I respected that she felt that way now. I continued saying that I felt her love in the past and that it was real and that I struggled to understand how it could vanish forever and that I believed it was still in her even if she couldnt access it now. She reiterated that everything between us was real and of course she had truly loved me. She still says that she loves me, just not in the way I love her.
She told me that I needed to let her go. That was a realization that it had taken me a long time to come to but had already recognized beforehand. Holding her tight became counterproductive. If she wants to find her way back to me I need to give her the time and space to do that or not do it. I told her that if there comes a point of reconciliation that it would be to build a new relationship not to resume the old one. I was also clear that there were no expectations at this point. I think most likely the relationship wont survive but all I can do is work on improving myself so that I am in a better place whatever the result. She desperately wants to keep me in her life as a friend but obviously that is complicated.
At the end we talked a little about the logistics and she was confused about whether or not I wanted to return to the house at the end of the summer trip. I thought I had been clear but evidently not. She is definitely planning on moving out and renting another place. We talked a bit about money and keeping joint accounts for now. She talked about maybe needing to buy a car. When I talked about eventually selling the house she broke down and said it was too much too soon for her.
All in all she really couldnt have been much more negative about the relationship and thoughts of reconciliation but it barely dented my positivity. I certainly didnt walk away with unrealistic hopes but I did leave feeling like I was in a better place. I will always believe the very real love she felt for me simply cant vanish but at the same time I was feeling more capable than ever of carrying on on my own. I told her that I laughed more in this conversation than any other with her in the previous six months. And it felt genuine. On an emotional level it was touching to see how much she cared about me and my suffering in this process. It was also nice to be able to hold her in my arms and wipe away her tears. We both remarked about how much we missed the physical touch. Perhaps that is a bit of fools gold but I dont think I took it for anything more than what it was.
That was nearly a week ago, four and a half weeks into the separation. Since then we have exchanged a few texts and emails nearly always initiated by her. They are mundane stuff about the house or bills but they are all pleasant and friendly, and I have tried to respond as positive and breezily as I can. In the meantime I am taking care of myself. I am reading as much as I can and that is how I discovered the DR which I devoured in a single night, this forum other fora, as well as other books. I am still in a bit of a manic exercise mode but I think that is one of the healthiest ways that I can deal. I am biking everywhere, 190 miles last week. I have been doing 6 a.m. hot yoga three days a week and going to the climbing gym twice a week. Physically I feel in better shape than since before I met my wife. I struggle at times to sleep and have to resort to taking a couple of NyQuil on many nights. My sense of calm and serenity didnt last long as by two days after our meeting I was already struggling with anxiety and obsessive thoughts. I am still communicating both online and in weekly phone chats with my therapist.
I was really struggling with all the things I did wrong in the relationship, and while I was always loving, there were certainly things I could have done better. However, when I got to the chapter in the DR on MLC, my heart nearly stopped. It was describing my W nearly to a T. I began to do other research online and everything I read resonated with my experience, other than my wife not having an EA. She exhibits so many of the symptoms of MLC.
She is unhappy in the marriage but cant say way. She told me in repeated conversations that it is her not me, that it isnt about anything I did or am doing. She starts going out with single friends more. Absolutely. Going back months she started going out more and more with the biking crew and now the climbers. She would stay out till two or three a.m without texting me and wonder why I was annoyed. She tells me that she loves me but is not in love with me. She never used those exact words, but it is exactly what she meant. Cut off in intimacy. We had sex two or at max three times since January until the separation, three months, and only once after her trip to Colombia. She says that she regrets getting married in the first place and implies that she got married too young. She is working out more and more. She wants out of the marriage and pushed for the separation. She is not willing to work on the marriage. She is heavily involved in new social groups. She is discontent with her life in general. She came back from Colombia and started a completely new diet or cleanse, all raw food and plant based with no meat, alcohol, or processed food. She is scared of getting old and wants to stay young. Even before things got bad she made remarks about not being able to accept the aging process. I kind of laughed and said it was an early MLC but I obviously underestimated the severity of her feelings.
I am currently using the LTR and trying to live it the best I can. I am working on myself, being social, not initiating contact and responding as positively as I can to her. The detachment part is clearly the hardest part for me. It is easy to fake some of the other things but truly living the detachment element is tough. Realizing now that she is the throes of a MLC that it isnt my fault, and that I just have to try to wait it out and be as positive as possible has helped a bit shift the burden away from constantly questioning what I did wrong or how unfair she is being. Patience is also extremely hard. I know that I am making positive changes in my life. I know how I will treat her when I see her but it is frustrating bc she isnt in my life to see the changes. How can I give her the space she needs while still letting her know that my outlook has completely shifted?
I have a couple of practical questions that I think people on here could really help with as well. The first is a small one. I am scheduled to get a colonoscopy in two weeks and I had to ask someone to pick me up and W gladly accepted. Now I am wondering if that is a bad idea. I could probably ask a coworker but I would really like to see her. I am also worried because I will be coming out of sedation and I am not sure how well i will be able to control my emotions. That said, she is fine with it and I would really like to see her if only to show my progress.
The second issue is much thornier for me and I have been struggling with it recently. When we last spoke the agreement was that she would give me the car for the summer so I could road trip. Also when the summer is over, my plan was to move back into the house either with her there or not. She made it clear that she would definitely not be there and would be looking to rent something for six months or a year, not monthly like I have been doing. She really wants to be fair to me and while both of our names are on the mortgage I have been the primary salary and the person who put up the down payment. She feels like it my home.
However my therapist suggested that maybe I should not return to the house. He thinks it may be a trigger for me and could be unhealthy, and I dont necessarily disagree. Moving back into the house with all the memories of our relationship, she still has our pictures up, but without her there would be really hard for me. That, coupled with the trauma of returning for another school year could be too much for me all at once, according to him. I am torn. I desperately want to be back in my house, but I recognize that it could be unhealthy. I am also happier to take a month to month lease or six month lease rather than have my W make a more permanent decision to move out.
I know that I need to base this decision based on what is best for me but I also cant help but think about the effect on my wife. When I broached the subject of selling the house in the future she couldnt deal with the finality of that. Would moving out and giving up the life there be a positive step, one that she needs to take in order to realize she is making a mistake? Or is it better for her to stay in the house with all of its memories and maintain some sort of pyschic connection with our relationship? If it is clear to me that the relationship is over for good then I will certainly sell the house, but I want to push that off as far as possible.
So the situation as it stands is that I am scheduled to move back into the house in early August and she has three months to find an apartment, but I am leaning towards asking her to talk and saying that I am not ready to live in the house without her and asking her to stay while I make other arrangements. I am struggling with how to do that while still following the LTR. Does that sound like a mis step or am I thinking soundly here? We have lots of other connections and entanglements as well from our dog whom we both love dearly to our shared bank account, shared credit cards, shared cell phone plan, shared gym membership, etc. She has taken no steps to sever any of these and I dont want to either. We both trust one another not to take advantage of the other financially.
If you have read this far, thanks so much. I appreciate all the advice and support I have read so far.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thanks. Since I posted so much above I wanted to highlight one question. I am scheduled to move back into my house at the start of the next school year in august and my wife is moving out. However my therapist thinks that might not be healthy for me and I am beginning to think he is right. Any opinions here? I am leaning towards calling my W and asking her to stay, which I think is her preference anyway. I suggested the idea of me moving back in and she went along. But I feel like I need to move quickly before she makes other plans.
Any thoughts?
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Davide Originally when my W wanted a break I had suggested that I move out of the house. I didn't follow through on that and I will tell you now that I really wish I had. I assume that other DB's will tell you to kick her out and move back into your own house and there is wisdom in that. Also in some states if you move out the other person can get the house in a D.
Your situation does sound alot like mine I wish you luck. Stay detached and focus on making yourself happy.
M 40 W 34 Together 7 Married 2 No Kids BD 1/18 need space Moved out 2/18 ILYBNILWY & Asked for D 3/18 W filed for D 6/18 D final 10/18
Just wondering if the advice to take back the house is more legal than psychological? I know that the W isn't out for the house or any money. That isn't the case here. But is there a psychological benefit to retaking the house or in asking her to leave? I just think it will be so much harder for me.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
