WW in MLC affair and I need advice..

[Natash]

If you make plans on the Saturdays you know she'll have something........will it leave her stuck with the kids? See, this is what causes so much antagonisim. In her mind, she probably sees every other weekend as being "fair". However, it may be the only time she can see OM, or whatever, IDK. WW's don't usually care about fairness.......they care about what's best for them.

My point here is that if it falls on the weekend you know she'll have something planned, then you need to do one of two things. 1) GAL that includes the kids, or 2) be responsible for getting the babysitter. On "your free weekend", the same should apply for her.........and those are the weekends you don't have to take the kids. If you deliberately make GAL plans on her weekend, it appears as if you are trying to sabatosh her plans. Thus, her reason for having the resentment.

I believe OM has his daughter every other Saturday leaving the opposite available for my W. If I were to make plans on one of the Saturday's my wife would have plans I doubt she would get stuck with the kids as my MIL loves to watch them. However, take your advice and I will keep "her time" in mind and leave those weekends with GAL events with my girls. Then in the event that W and I both have plans, and I let her know ahead of time, we will be able to discuss it and arrange for a sitter.

[quote]When I wrote the response to AS I felt like I should not have left/kept my plans the day my daughter was sick as looking back it might have caused resentment. Since reading his response and yours I think it clarified alot for me and I will explain as I go.

Well, my point about the child being sick at her stomach, was that any mother worth her weight in salt should be able to handle it, without putting it all on the father.......the way she was doing, and has done, with you. You had nursed the child through the night, mopped up the vomit, etc. She appeared to be over it and sleeping peacefully. So, it wasn't as if you left her critically ill in the hands of an incompetent stranger! You are feeling guilty b/c AS asked if you left your sick child........and your W made you feel completely worthless. As a mother, I would not have thought anything bad toward my H leaving, after he had been up most the night with the child. If you had gone to work, it would have been the same thing.......but just b/c you took a break and did something for yourself......you're suppose to feel horrible? Sorry, I don't see anything wrong. Your W needs to act like a parent who can take care of a little girl's sick tummy without daddy being there around the clock. That's one of the issues in the MR, is that you've been the primary parent, while the mother did.......... whatever.

I like the work analogy, that has happened in the past and never was an issue.

I told my W tonight where I'm going, when I'm leaving and when I'll be back. She asked are you going with Ryan? I said yes and she told me she had some dinner plans with a friend next week that she needed to reschedule and wanted to do it for this Thursday.

Do you see anything noticeable in the quote above? The WW usually wants details about the H's GAL, but she doesn't offer up any of her own. You gave the day, the place, time of departure and time of arrival back home. But the one thing you left out......is the one thing a WW always wants to know. Who is going with you, or who will be there. All you know about her plans is that it's with some "friend". If you had told her a friend was going with you......how do you think she would have responded? It's just her sneaky way of making sure her position is still secure. Even if she is interested in being your W, she doesn't want you becoming interested in anyone else. Ironic, isn't it? It's a little thing called jealousy.

Yes it is very ironic and I knew she would want the details. Unfortunately I had to give her more than I typically would like to in our current situation because it is the smart thing do (when going into such a remote area for multiple days). I think had I answered with "a friend". She would have said "who", and then when I repeated she would have probably got pissy and stormed off irritated.

If it helps you to give her the dates and times, I think it's very considerate. I would not offer up extra details, without her digging for them. But then I never dreamed something so simple would give you such a personality or communication complex, either. It kind of defeats the purpose, if you ask me. IDK, guys like you just make me shake my head and wonder what you were like before M.

I wouldn't call it a personality complex, communication maybe but I am a very straight forward honest guy and I have a hard time doing something that feels fake or not genuine is all.It felt awkward to me at times but like I said as time goes on and activities and opportunities arrive, that will go away and become natural. This situation has been on my mind all the time and sometimes wears me down. I need to just step back and relax, enjoy life and forget about it for a minute or possibly a day. I overthink and analyze everything as it has been educated and formed into me through work. Every day the phone rings and a customer has a problem, how am I going to fix it? This is how I earn a living so when I am at home, I havent shut that mode off and am constantly trying to learn ways to help fix my own situation. But like I said, I think right now this trip will be the best thing for me. To get away with one good friend, a bunch of new people, and no electronic devices. I am perplexed about you wondering what i was like before marriage as I don't know if much has changed but maybe we can talk about that later.

Tomorrow is my birthday. My W texted me today "anything special you want for birthday meal?" I responded "let me think about it and get back to you" So then when I had a few minutes and was off the tower I had just climbed I texted her back "Are you referring to a meal you will make or purchase?" She responded "this is not a difficult question, I don't care" I thought "who is saying it's a difficult question...I'm not? My answer would depend on what was being offered so I responded "Ruby Tuesdays and the tone of the above text is not appreciated" She responded "it's a text and how you perceive it" I didn't respond and don't like going back and forth with texts when not necessary or worth it. Did I handle this correctly? I was want to make sure in the future if she gets sassy or disrespectful in texts I can put her in her place.

You are making these types of things too complicated, and that aggravates your W. You were not "saying" it was a difficult question. You acted as if it were. You could have just said, "Anything is fine with me"......or else, be precise about what you would like. Maybe it's just me, but it just seems as if you made it more complicated than necessary.
You need to relax about some of this stuff! You're going to have a heart attack.

Happy birthday today!

The problem with that convo was I was putting my wifes thoughts first, wondering if she wanted to cook a meal or go out but I should have said who cares, its my birthday. A one word text response of Ruby Tuesdays would have avoided it all.

Thank you for the birthday wish!

P.S-Sandi im going to need your help, I bought my bike as a birthday gift to myself as you know. I regret my choice keeping it a secret as my wife has not moved out when she said she was going to and would like to run a scenario by you in an upcoming post (this one is long enough).

Sure!

Thank you.


And to 44, thank you for the post and pointers. I do agree with you we are alot alike and are in similar situations. I look forward to being here for each other!

[Natash]

I have a quick question I'm looking for some advice on. Last night WW went out to eat from 4pm to 12:45am with "a friend who is getting done at work". This morning when preparing for the day, I was quiet and out of her way and didnt ask any questions. As I was getting to the fridge to get my lunch ready she hurried by me put her shoulder into me. I said "excuse you" without any attitude and D7 is in a nearby room and says "why are you guys acting like brothers and sisters all the time?" I did not know what to say to her. So I got thinking, should I be engaging with my WW when she returns from these outings,asking if she had a good time, etc? I haven't been as I saw it as a form of pursing (I don't mention anything, I act if nothing took place that I care about) but wondered if I am handling it the best way for me as well as my daughters?

On a different note, so looking forward to these next 7 days with new friends, wilderness, and good times but most of all a break from my WW, her actions, and lifestyle!

[joejoe1]

Natash,

Your W timeframe yesterday seems very suspicious. I would not start engaging with her more. You should detach more. IMO if you start to engage her more you are telling your W you are ok with her doing the things she is doing.

I think your W probably bumped into you because she felt guilty and wanted to see if your were upset about her being out the timeframe she was yesterday. She was testing you. Pull back, show her through actions that you are not ok with what she is doing.

GAL, get some new clothes. If you have lost weight, get clothes that fit, shirts that show off your chest and arms. Get a new haircut(change your hair style up). Get some new glasses if you wear them. Get some new smell good.

Your W is so enamored with what she is doing she don't see your improvements. But the more you change it up and detach she will start to take notice. Dont mention any of your changes to her. Just make the changes and keep going forward.

When or if she notice the first thing she will accuse you of is cheating, it's because it's what she is doing. Just look at her smile and keep going about your life. Your changes don't need an explanation to your WW. Let her wonder.

While you are doing this, you have to be positive. Read about positivity and how to achieve it such negativity and trying times. Smile and laugh more. At first it will seem fake, but after a while it will become natural. Find new friends to trade numbers with them. You have to make this time about YOU***** and your kids, NOT your WW.

[sandi2]

So I got thinking, should I be engaging with my WW when she returns from these outings,asking if she had a good time, etc? I haven't been as I saw it as a form of pursing (I don't mention anything, I act if nothing took place that I care about) but wondered if I am handling it the best way for me as well as my daughters?

No, don't engage. When you daughter ask a question you don't know how to answer, just say, "I don't know how to answer that one, sweetheart". Don't make things so complicated for yourself.

[Natash]

Natash,

Your W timeframe yesterday seems very suspicious. I would not start engaging with her more. You should detach more. IMO if you start to engage her more you are telling your W you are ok with her doing the things she is doing.

Makes sense, thank you. I am not ok with her actions and don't want to give that impression.

I think your W probably bumped into you because she felt guilty and wanted to see if your were upset about her being out the timeframe she was yesterday. She was testing you.

Interesting, I took it as her being pissy and irritated she was running late and she had the get out of my way attitude, you know, but she could have very well been testing me.

GAL, get some new clothes. If you have lost weight, get clothes that fit, shirts that show off your chest and arms. Get a new haircut(change your hair style up). Get some new glasses if you wear them. Get some new smell good.

Thank you for the tips. I recently went to a barber for a haircut, as my w has been cutting my hair for years. I also recently bought some new sunglasses, shoes, and three pairs of pants. I never shop for myself and usually get a pair or two of jeans at Christmas from the W. This year that didn't happen and it felt nice to have some new ones. I know the wife checked them out while they were in the shopping bag. I had set them done (hands full) and when I went back to pick the bag up it had been opened and moved.

Your W is so enamored with what she is doing she don't see your improvements. But the more you change it up and detach she will start to take notice. Dont mention any of your changes to her. Just make the changes and keep going forward. [Quote] Isn't the enamored part the truth!

[Quote]When or if she notice the first thing she will accuse you of is cheating, it's because it's what she is doing. Just look at her smile and keep going about your life. Your changes don't need an explanation to your WW. Let her wonder.

Ah man, this would have been a great response to the day she did acuse me of cheating on her!

While you are doing this, you have to be positive. Read about positivity and how to achieve it such negativity and trying times. Smile and laugh more. At first it will seem fake, but after a while it will become natural.

Thank you for the positivity reading recommendation as that is something I struggle with. I'm going to try to think of it as a game and she is not only the little old lady that is paying for room and board but she is crazy as well. You know, you wouldn't be mean to a little old crazy lady and at times would just have to laugh to not come off as being rude. I look forward to the day it starts to feel more natural so that is something I'll work on.

[Natash]

No, don't engage. When you daughter ask a question you don't know how to answer, just say, "I don't know how to answer that one, sweetheart". Don't make things so complicated for yourself.

Ok I wont. Sandi you make it seem so simple which is helpful because as you can tell I have made it more complex on myself at times.

On a quick tangent, I mentioned the bike before with you and how I should handle it. My thought was next Saturday morning I tell my wife in the morning " I've bought a motorcycle and am going to pick it up, I'll be back in a bit " There is a good chance she'll ask where I got it. I can be vague to appoint (like say *at the Honda Powersports place") but if she doesn't back off with questions do you think I should tell her the local dealership? I don't want to lie to her but I don't want her to know I've been keeping it at a buddies until she had moved out (and until now has not).

[arsh18]

Hi Natash, Just read up on your thread, we have more similarities than you pointed out, our birthdays are a day apart (happy birthday to us?) and I live in the NE area too. Not a good year for us I suppose. Anyway, with such veterans around I am a newbie and cant offer any advice but wanted to just show my support and let you know I will also be listening along with the others when you want to vent out.

[sandi2]

You don't have to be vague about where you bought the bike. What and how much you share is up to you. But the approach about telling her nonchalantly that you've purchased a bike and are going to pick it up, seems okay to me. If she gets angry, she would have anyway......regardless of how you told her. I doubt she'll be happy about it, b/c she'll see money being taken away from her & the kids, somehow. I think she'll accuse you of being very selfish. If she accuses you of keeping it a secret, you can explain how you thought the two of you would be separated by this time...........or not. That is up to you. The thing is, she is not your mother. You don't have to explain your actions to her. This is a fault some H's fall into when they have NGS......and when they have a demanding/overbearing W.

[Natash]

Well I'm back from my 7 day trip and it was amazing! 115 miles, record high water, snow still in places and saw 53 moose,otters,beavers,eagles,deer, two other paddlers and no clouds over the first 5 days! I did miss my daughters and on my drive back they called me to talk. Then the WW got on the phone and said we need to talk.

When I got home, the house was clean and everything of hers was gone. She told me she tried the under the same roof thing and anxiety meds but nothing's working and she was leaving and wanted my input about the talk with the girls. I told her that the girls had plans for bingo at school that night and a talk before that wouldnt be good. Neither would a talk at bedtime. I said she should get what she needs to stay the night and we would talk with the girls in the morning.She agreed and we gotta into a conversation. She mentioned in it we have both changed but I'm still selfish. We have a communication issue (my response was this is the first time in five months she initiated a conversation). She said she thought I was seeing someone else (because of my gal activities). I slipped and said absolutely not. She told me she is burnt out and nothing is working, not even the meds. Then continued it's time to stop putting the kids first and to put herself first. She has friends she wants to go out with but feels like she has to ask for permission first and that not right. She said she has regrets and needs time away from me. I had strong evidence EW had introduced my girls to OM and his D. I told my wife that I want it to be clear that the only men that need to be in our daughters lives are myself and their two grandfathrts. She said she respects my wish. Then she was going to her parents to grab some stuff for the night and she'd be back. I never heard the car start and she came back in balling. I asked her what the matter was and she said she should have never moved all of her stuff out like that and it was on impulse. I said I undrtstand, ive made some choices on impulse that i have regretted. I tried to stay strong but eyes did water at times. She grabbed some blankets and headed for the couch.In the morning we sat down with the girls and mom let them know she was moving out. They were heartbroken and wanted to know why we didn't talk it out and mom could stay. My W explained she needed time away from me and we will share them 50 percent. I lost it when I saw both my girls so visibly upset and I just handed then tissues and wrapped my arms around them both assuring them none if this is their fault and mom and dad love them so much. Around this same time I got confirmation that D5 told my mom that my W and two daughters had gone out to eat and mini golf with OM and his D. This is when I lost my calmness. I told her that I was done playing her game to leave our daughters out of this. She said "he's just a friend, it was innocent and is the reason I did not tell you". I said bullshit, you don't wait until your spouse goes our of town and go out to eat with another man PERIOD. It so happens to be the same guy you were texting and saying you loved him and lying to me about. I told you to stop the conversations and you lied about that. Now you're moving out and dating him and introducing the kids...so convenient. I told her stop thinking I'm ignorant and stupid I see what is happening. She swears they are not dating but I don't buy it. Is it right for me to ask my Daughters if they ever see him again? I know I can't control my WW but don't want the kids brought into this more than needed.

I'm at a different stage than I've ever been and looking for a few key pointers that have helped other separated folks?

[SteveLW]

So she moved all her stuff out. Then balled saying it was a mistake. Then followed through with crushing her girls by telling them the move was happening.

In the meantime she met OM with the girls and his daughter.

Wow. She is way way wayward. I am thinking LRT. With the only contact being regarding the logistics around the girls.

But I will let the experts weigh in. Sorry man, this is rough stuff. I think you've done a lot of good things here, with the GAL. She obviously noticed because she thought you were seeing someone else.