And still struggling

[SteveLW]

Not much to say about the lawyer visit. He answered some questions I had, changed things in her proposal that I asked him to change, agreed that some things her lawyer put in didn't really make sense, and will change those passages.... He wants me to come up with current values of assets, so that will take a few days to get together.

All in all, I think this is going to cost us at least twice as much as if she would have agreed to use a mediator. Not that it's contentious, there are just a lot of pieces that could have easily been worked out between us, rather than going back and forth between our lawyers. Oh, well, it's only money.

Your last paragraph reminded me of a scene from When Harry Met Sally:

Harry Burns: Right now everything is great, everyone is happy, everyone is in love and that is wonderful. But you gotta know that sooner or later you're gonna be screaming at each other about who's gonna get this dish. This eight dollar dish will cost you a thousand dollars in phone calls to the legal firm of That's Mine, This Is Yours.

Sally: Harry.

Harry Burns: Please, Jess, Marie. Do me a favor, for your own good, put your name in your books right now before they get mixed up and you won't know whose is whose. 'Cause someday, believe it or not, you'll go 15 rounds over who's gonna get this coffee table. This stupid wagon wheel ROY ROGERS GARAGE SALE COFFEE TABLE!

[Jim1234]

It's been a while since I've updated this, but I haven't really had anything to talk about. Just kind of gettin' on gettin' on.

Had a really good weekend with the kids. I took them to see Infinity War on Friday night. D16 and I had planned to go for weeks, and S18 wasn't sure he wanted to go with us, or was going with friends. I went to buy tickets early in the afternoon, and texted him to see whether I should buy 2 or 3 tickets. He was at Ws, but didn't get back to me, so I texted her to ask him for a response and threw in an invitation for her as well. She declined to eat dinner with us beforehand, but joined us for the movie. No pressure, we got on well, and had a nice time.

Saturday, I took the kids to meet my brother and his kids at Hershey Park for the day. Everyone had a blast. Sunday was just kind of spent recovering.

I asked W a little while ago to go over her proposal and see if we could work it out among ourselves so we could keep the lawyer's fees down. We made a lunch appointment, but she wasn't feeling well, so we talked over the phone on Friday instead. The discussion was fairly productive; it got heated for a few minutes, but we calmed down and got the conversation back on track. But it wasn't working well, because I couldn't really retype the document, or cut and paste what we liked and agreed to. There were some contentious issues, but things went pretty smoothly, so I suggested we meet with a mediator, and she agreed. We have an appointment next week.

Something that came up was paying for college and she told me, yet again, "you should have worked more." I explained why I didn't (I thought we had college well in hand, and we did, until she took the money set aside for college and bought a house.). I hadn't done that before, but on the drive to Hershey, I had some time to think, and realized validation probably would have been a better tactic. Sunday, I needed to talk about the kids, so I called, apologized for dismissing her feelings all those years, and then validated what she said, including "I should have either communicated our financial situation better or worked more so you would feel financially safe and secure," and then started talking to her about the kids so she wouldn't feel any pressure. It was a simple apology, and I validated her feelings without any further discussion. Don't know if it did our situation any good, but I feel I did well.

On another front, a woman I had been dating broke it off because I wasn't putting much effort into the relationship, and didn't make her a priority. She's right. From the start, I told her I wasn't interested in a relationship and only wanted to date. There were no hard feelings on either side. She was pleasant company, but we wanted very different things. We left the door open. so if my situation changes in a year or so, who knows?

[artista]

This is just my opinion, but I don't think you should have apologized for not working more... She should apologize for putting a house ahead of her child's college education... I am assuming she was a stay-home mom... If so, perhaps she should have put in extra time with your child so he could have received a full-on scholarship... I am sure that sounds ridiculous, but so does her insistence that you should have worked more... Again, just my opinion...

[Jim1234]

Artista, I get where you are coming from, but I don't feel like I apologized for not working more, but rather for dismissing her feelings and threatening her perception of her financial security and safety. That's badly worded, but I hope it makes sense.

She wasn't a stay at home mom, but physical issues prevented her from working more, and then depression because of the physical issues wreaked havoc.

Believe me, I agree with you about her buying the house, and her insistence on me working more, but she's not about to apologize for these things.

[NicoleR]

Jim, I admire how you continue to improve your communication with your wife even in the face of divorce.

That's too bad about the woman you were dating but hopefully when the time is write you'll re-connect with her or meet someone else. It's good that you feel open to meeting new people and getting out on dates. It must be a strange feeling after being married for so many years!

[AnotherStander]

Jim, glad to hear you are doing well and that's great that y'all are working things out without the lawyers, it takes a lot of the sting out of it.

"I should have either communicated our financial situation better or worked more so you would feel financially safe and secure,"

OK well that is not validation. That is basically agreeing with what she said, and I agree with Artista, you should NOT have done that because SHE was really the one at fault for draining the account to buy something for herself. Validation would go more like this:

"You should have worked more to pay for the college fund!"

"You sound frustrated, is that how you feel?"

"Yes!"

"Why do you think that frustrates you?"

"I guess because I don't know what's going to happen, if we'll be able to pay for it now."

"I can tell you are frustrated, I am sorry you feel that way. Even though we are divorcing we are still a team when it comes to the kids and we will work this through."

The difference is validation is NOT agreeing, it's simply seeking to understand her feelings and validating her FEELINGS, not the original comment.

[Jim1234]

Jim, I admire how you continue to improve your communication with your wife even in the face of divorce.

That's too bad about the woman you were dating but hopefully when the time is write you'll re-connect with her or meet someone else. It's good that you feel open to meeting new people and getting out on dates. It must be a strange feeling after being married for so many years!

Thanks, Nicole. After reading Artista, and AS, maybe I'm not improving my communication as much as I thought!

As far as dating, it helps if you just think of them as just.. . dates. Nothing more than that. In some ways it's easier than before I was married, in some ways harder. But yes, it can be strange, in a number of ways.

[Jim1234]

Jim, glad to hear you are doing well and that's great that y'all are working things out without the lawyers, it takes a lot of the sting out of it.

"I should have either communicated our financial situation better or worked more so you would feel financially safe and secure,"

OK well that is not validation. That is basically agreeing with what she said, and I agree with Artista, you should NOT have done that because SHE was really the one at fault for draining the account to buy something for herself. Validation would go more like this:

"You should have worked more to pay for the college fund!"

"You sound frustrated, is that how you feel?"

"Yes!"

"Why do you think that frustrates you?"

"I guess because I don't know what's going to happen, if we'll be able to pay for it now."

"I can tell you are frustrated, I am sorry you feel that way. Even though we are divorcing we are still a team when it comes to the kids and we will work this through."

The difference is validation is NOT agreeing, it's simply seeking to understand her feelings and validating her FEELINGS, not the original comment.

Well, I obviously have more work to do in this area. Every time I think I'm validating, you let me know I still don't quite get it. Or maybe you let me know I'm still waaaaaay off. Either way, I appreciate you trying to keep me on the straight and narrow, and I'll keep trying to improve.

[Jim1234]

Nothing much going on with W, but I had a big blow up with D16 last night. She is in real danger of failing two classes and being held back a year because she simply hasn't done the work. She's entirely capable; she just can't be bothered.

I have been working closely with her teachers to make sure her work gets done, but she's been lying to me about what work she's completed and turned in. It takes a day or two to get feedback from her teachers and catch her in her lies. In this particular case, she is late turning in a homework from two weeks ago. The teacher is patient, understanding, and willing to work with us, but pretty soon, has to start deducting credit for late work. She has to get a 95% this quarter just to pass for the year, and can't afford to lose any credit. When I realized she was lying to me yesterday afternoon, I told her she had to finish this work last night, no matter how long it took.

At midnight, she wasn't done, and tried to sneak off to bed. Now, I am a big believer that they should get a good night's sleep, but in my opinion, finishing this work for full credit was more important than missing some sleep for one night, so I made her continue working on it. Staying up until midnight to make sure D16 does her homework isn't my idea of a good time, but I felt I had to make sure she finished. I wasn't hovering over her; she was in a separate part of the house. At 1:30, she still wasn't done, but said she was close. At 2:00 am, she said she just had a few more things to do and was going to bed. I pointed out that since she's been lying to me, I couldn't be sure she was almost done, and I said, "no, you're not. You're going to finish this and show it to me when it's done." This started her arguing, saying I needed to give her space, and I should go to my bedroom so she could finish it.

I got a little heated at that point, telling her no way was I going to banish myself to my bedroom so the little princess could have her space. I explained that it was MY house, and if she didn't have enough space, she could leave.

So she did, and walked over to her mom's, about a mile away. After I cooled down a bit, I followed in my car to make sure she got there safely.

Her mom's not there. She's on a business trip, but I figured the best thing I could do at that point was let her sleep there, and have S18 pick her up there for school in the morning.

Right now I'm thinking boundaries aren't only for the XW. I'm realizing my boundaries for D16 are she can't lie to me, has to be current on her schoolwork, and has to be respectful enough to do those two things. Otherwise, as much as it will hurt us both in the short term, I will "invite" her to stay at W's, instead of coming here.

I am going to hear an earful when W returns, I'm sure. W also won't like the fact that W's going to have to find somewhere for D16 to stay when she's on a trip.

Any input would be appreciated.

[Rose888]

I've had similar issues with one of my teens. I know how infuriating those situations can be.

However, I think if I were your wife, it would feel like you had shifted all the responsibility onto me, with no discussion. What if your wife gave your daughter a similar ultimatum? Do you feel comfortable having your daughter kicked out of both parental homes? And if not, it doesn't seem fair for you to kick her out of your home.

Personally, I don't feel comfortable kicking a child of that age out for anything less than behavior that endangers other family members.

The natural consequence of not doing work is failing a grade. The natural consequence of lying is not being trusted.