No more denial, time to get to work

[MRay]

sandi, I appreciate the interest you have given my sitch and thank you for the advice and insight you have given. I know that this is not done. I am not completely detached, and I will have my ups and downs. Things will change throughout this process, and I will be sticking around to post.

We are still living together, but one of the biggest things we want to find out from the lawyer is how to go about purchasing another house. Money is not the issue. The legal ramifications are. Once we find out when would be best to buy another house, we will physically separate. I think this will be a big help to me detaching. Once we are living apart I plan to spend lots of time finding my own life. I won't try for family game night or dinner night until I am not bothered by her potentially having another man in her life. I need to be truly detached for me to feel okay doing those things. Once I am, I feel it would be a great thing to do for our kids. However, they will need time to process the new situation as well. I will not rush this, at the very least, for their sake.

I have made it very clear to her that I cannot and will not be her bff (in our own words that only we we would understand). We won't text constantly. We won't just hang out. She won't get her needs met through me, but I will be there with the kids and when she really needs me. I haven't told her this, but this is my idea of how our relationship will be going forward. It won't be a typical friendship, but it will be a special relationship. If that leads to attraction again, great. At worst, it leads us to being those weird co-parents that can sit next to each other at their kids events and laugh and smile together.

I have felt that your W had issues that stemmed from her past and had caught up with her. It good to hear she is getting better through counseling. With both of you growing individually......and finding yourselves......there is hope you will find each other again.

This hits the nail on the head. It's amazing how right after BD everything was my fault. I made her life hell for years, blah blah blah. Then after she started IC her tune just changed. Most of the changing of our history has stopped. She sees her issues, and I'm glad she's finally dealing with them too.

[MRay]

Still journaling. Lots of details because this is mostly for me to remember everything. First meeting with the lawyer is Friday, and I'm kind of looking forward to it. I'm sure I'll be very emotional, but I'm looking forward to getting out on my own. I've never been alone as an adult. I've never done the dating scene. My W is actually the only woman I've ever kissed. I had this romantic idea of it being that way forever, and I'm still dealing with getting over that.

Everything has been pretty good, except for Sunday. W is very stressed about work, and we tend to feed off each others emotions so it stressed me out. This in turn made her more stressed and she shut down, went to her room and laid there the whole day. We need to get some paperwork ready for Friday, and I had not seen it yet. We won't see each other much during the week, so I asked her about it. This led to some tense conversations. She was just cranky. Yesterday was much better. We had dinner together as a family, and the kids went outside to play afterwards. While cleaning the dinner table W initiated some R talk. We talked about the future, the past, what worked, what didn't. That sort of thing. It was really good. We talked about divorce proceedings and how we'll split the assets. We talked about what we wanted out of the meeting on Friday. Then it turned personal.

She told me why she thinks she can't have feelings for me. She blamed herself, and apologized. She said objectively she knows I am the best man she'll ever meet (I check all the boxes as she puts it), but she can't make herself feel that way for me. She sees me as a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde and doesn't know when she'll get bit again. This has to do with our sexual history of me getting angry with her for withholding sex. Sex has always been a difficult subject for us. First because of distance apart, then her issues with her mom and her upbringing, then she tried to reset by cutting me off during our engagement without telling me, etc. She said she would test me, and it was wrong of her, but she did it anyways. She would wait until I was desperate for affection (after a month or so of no sex), and she would aggressively come on to me while making it clear she didn't actually want sex to see what I would do. I knew exactly what she was talking about, and usually I would go for it. She said she didn't blame me, and she wasn't proud of her actions. That's just what she is afraid of. I can't blame her either. We were both very inexperienced, and we explored with each other. That's what college aged kids do. She is quite repressed, and I guess I wanted to explore a bit too much for her (honestly it was nothing out of the ordinary, she is very conservative and I'm okay with that). She's just never been able to get over being afraid of that side of me.

I validated her feelings and thoughts, and thanked her for opening up to me. She said that this might hurt me, but that she's looking forward to having some good sex again some day. I can honestly say, this didn't hurt me. I can tell I'm moving forward with my detachment. She said it had nothing to do with me, it was just all in her head, and I agree. We put the kids to bed, and continued to talk. She talked about how her IC thinks she still has attachments and feelings for me, but she just can't see them. She told me why she disagreed with him. I validated her feelings, but tend to agree with the IC. Her feelings are just so buried, and she won't get out of her way and deal with them until we are truly separated. We agreed that we need to get away from each other. We are both anxious around the other, and we need some time to heal and deal with ourselves because we haven't been our real selves around each other in a long time. I told her that all I want from her is a genuine relationship. Whether that be as co-parents, friends, or more. I said it would be awhile before I can be anything but a good co-parent, but in the future we'll be okay. I just asked one thing of her: to see me as the man I am today and will become in the future, not the dumb kid that I used to be. She said she would, but she is still dealing with lots of issues from the past (mostly not from me). She just wanted me to know that I didn't screw her up. She was already screwed up, and she's sorry for that. We talked a bit longer about some happy times and I made her laugh and smile a lot.

I ended the conversation and said goodnight and started to walk out of the room. As I left the room she called out a remark about an inside joke we have, knowing I would turn around and come back. When I did she was almost naked, getting ready to shower. She smiled at me and gave me the sexy, don't you wish you could have this look and we both laughed. She did this because throughout our conversation we had been joking about both of us getting into really good shape lately and we are both looking really good. She had joked, in a friendly way, a few times about her body looking so good that I couldn't resist her. I would return fire by reminding her that Thor had nothing on me these days (she loves her some Chris Hemsworth), and if she continued I would be forced to take action. It was all very playful banter. Weird stuff from a woman that is so afraid of me sexually, but at least she's getting more comfortable. I told her she was lucky I'd already showered today or I'd force my way into the shower with her. We both laughed, and I turned to leave and as I walked out I called out, "I love you!" I stopped in my tracks. I hadn't said those words to her in months. It just came out so fast and natural. I was flustered. I quickly said "I'm sorry," realized that was NGS and got more flustered! She was in the shower already. She called out "I love you like a brother!" More jokes because I had told her before that I don't want her to think of me as a brother. I'd rather be her friend. So I said don't be incestuous, you were just trying to seduce me! We had a good laugh and I finally made it out of her room.

It's such a strange place to be. We're clearly anxious and uncomfortable living in the same home, but when we forget what's happening we are great together. Her main fear with me is sexually driven, yet she's clearly able to tease me sexually when there is nothing on the line. Is this another test? We both are ready to move on (well, I'm getting there and I've been approached by multiple women already as I'm not wearing my ring but I feel wrong doing anything about it until I have my own place). I'm grieving for the past, but know I don't want to go back. I am starting to get excited for the possibilities and getting out on my own, but I just can't shake the feeling we aren't done yet. I know my sitch isn't that old, but I guess we've both known things weren't right for awhile. It all feels so fast, and I just hoped we could work things out together. Now I think she can't work them out unless we are separate. We are clearly moving on with the divorce, and I think it's in our best interests, but I just know there is something still there. I'll move on and enjoy my life and all that comes with being single, and maybe someday that will lead us back together.

On a side note, I know everybody thinks they are unique and different and the rules don't apply to them, but I really don't think my wife is wayward. I also don't know if she's a walkaway. She immediately came clean about her EA with OM. Honestly, it didn't start until we were in a very bad place and she didn't acknowledge her romantic feelings for him until we had separated. She immediately showed remorse. She has apologized and has not once tried to keep me attached to her. She is still not talking to him even though I have suggested that she can go out and do whatever she wants at this point. She is planning to go to a movie while I take the kids on a trip this weekend. I asked if she was going with anybody and she said by herself. I said she has friends she can go with, and she named each friend and said why they couldn't go. I told her you know who would be willing to go with you (implying OM), and she just shook her head and said no. She didn't look sad, she didn't acknowledge who I was talking about, she just said no. She routinely points out women I should talk to. She is never jealous or angry when I go out. She wants me to GAL. I really feel that she is genuine when she says she wants me to be happy and she feels she can't give me that. It just doesn't follow the script that I would expect from a WW. Maybe somebody can fill me in here and show me the errors of my thinking. Maybe she's just doing all of that to assuage her guilt, I don't know. She has just said please don't talk to me about any women that you are seeing until you are serious enough to consider introducing them to our kids. We'll see how Friday goes, and then I'll update.

[MRay]

We met with the mediator yesterday, and we have a clear idea of the divorce process and costs and all of that. What was scheduled for 2 hours only took 40 minutes. The mediator said we were just about the easiest case she'd seen in 30+ years because we were so civil and friendly with each other. She praised our ability to trust each other through this process and how open we were about everything. It's amazing to me how two people that have been through so much over the last 16 years can just fall apart like this, but still be so friendly. For her it's just that she sees me as a brother because she loves me, but doesn't have romantic feelings. For me it's my inner strength. I really want what is best for her, and more importantly, my kids.

We still don't know who is going to get the house. I can afford a house that is equal to our current house in every way if we split. She can't. She'd have to move to a less desired neighborhood about a 10-15 minute drive away. I'm pretty sure at this point what I say goes with the house. We both want it, but if I said I wanted it she wouldn't put up much of a fight. There is a house less than a mile from my current one that is the exact same floorplan (I love my house's setup), on the same street (not in sight of each other as the road is split by a major road through the suburbs so that would be good), and I could really see myself living there. The kids would have the same rooms and everything. I'm not sure if that would be good for them or not. I've been looking at houses around us for a couple months, and just haven't seen anything else I like in my price range. I've got to move fast if I want it though. If I don't end up with that house, I might tell her to find herself a place (I told her to start looking in case she is the one to move out).

We are going to her parents house this evening to tell them we are divorcing. I'm going because they are our lenders, so we need to discuss finances and everything dealing with the houses with them. I wouldn't be surprised if they offered me a loan to buy that house, and I'm not sure if I would take them up on it if they did. No matter what, this is happening and I'm okay. I'm getting strong every day. It's so bittersweet. I am grieving the loss of the life we had and what we had planned for the future. As seems common, we were discussing major plans for the next couple decades just days before BD. And looking back she seemed so genuine and excited during these conversations. It's amazing how you think you know somebody so well, and they can hide what they are feeling so damn well for so long. At the same time I'm excited for my life. I'm really finding myself in my GAL. My workouts are going awesome. I'm starting to reach my short term goals, and I'm in as good of shape since I was 17 years old. I hate cardio, but I went for a 3 mile run yesterday along with my weight training. I've joined a softball league that runs for the next couple months. I'm taking my kids to an amusement park tomorrow. I'm going to a fundraiser with some new friends tonight and will meet a lot of new people there. I took my kids to watch the engineering class at my college launch their rockets. I'm seriously doing so much stuff. I'm having a blast! I still get really sad when I think about losing everything, but it's not debilitating like a couple months ago. I'm tearing up as I type this, but at the same time I'm so hopeful. Not that my W will return to me some day (I still think that's a pretty likely possibility way down the line), but that I am a freakin' amazing person. I'd lost some of that somewhere along the way, and I'm so glad it's coming back. I'm not changing who I am, but I am finding the person I was meant to be all along.

I don't get many responses here, but I'm pretty sure it's because I don't ask many questions. I get a lot out of just typing this all out, so it's not a big deal. I really appreciate those of you that have responded to me. I do read just about every other thread, and I get a lot out of it. So thanks to everybody for sharing their stories and taking time to help. I'll continue to journal where appropriate. Good luck to everybody out there!

[MRay]

W's parents weren't home when we went to tell them we were divorcing. They had gone out of town for dinner. She was so afraid of telling them that she didn't call to see if they were home or let them know we were coming. She was on the verge of a panic attack, so we went to the backyard, sat down and just talked for a bit to calm her down. When we went to leave I told her goodbye and she stopped me and thanked me for being there for her even though she knew it must have been very difficult for me. I validated her feelings, told her I'd be there for her when she really needed me, and left.

I had a great time with my kids this weekend. Then yesterday morning W told me she was tired of living a lie, and she really wanted to take her wedding ring off and not wear it anymore. She had been wearing it to work to avoid answering questions, and her Mom works at the same school. So I got a text yesterday morning saying she told her Mom we were divorcing, and she started getting information on the loan finances. This got me thinking about the house, and I'm really leaning towards wanting to keep the house myself and her finding a new house. I sent a couple texts back about her finding a house and what we each could afford, and she sent back an angry text saying the conversation was making her angry and she didn't want me to tell her she had to move out right now. I validated her feelings, and told her nothing was decided yet (it's not).

After work I took myself out for an early dinner and a movie and had a good time. When I got home, I knew W probably had taken off her wedding ring for the last time. I found it in the box I had used to propose to her almost 10 years ago. It hasn't been in that box since I proposed. I expected it to trigger a lot of emotions, but I didn't have much of a reaction. I felt oddly at peace.

I still love her, and probably always will. I still want to reconcile, but don't think there is any chance until she gets out of the marriage and moves on and gets away from me for at least a couple years. Even then the chances might be zero. She has made it very clear that she loves me like a brother, and does not want any romantic relationship with me right now, but is open to anything in the future. She is done trying to control her feelings and it just depends on where those feelings lead her.

I don't know how long it will take for me to move on, but I have found myself becoming interested in another woman I've met recently. I haven't thought about another woman this way since I was 16 years old, so I don't know what to do about it. I find her interesting and fun to be around, and find myself thinking about her sometimes when we are apart. We do not have contact beyond a GAL activity of mine. No exchanged phone numbers, and she may not even be interested in me beyond being a friend. I know I'm not close to ready for anything more than a friendship, and I think these feelings might just be me looking for some way to cope. I just enjoy the time I spend with her, and find myself wanting to spend more time with her. I don't feel guilty for it, I just logically don't think I'm ready for anything. It just seems too fast, and I don't want to be unfair to somebody else. Not sure what to make of this, so I'd like some advice if anybody has some to give.

[MRay]

This has been a really good week so far. I enjoyed the heck out of my softball game yesterday. I forgot just how much I love physical competition. I've twice run into former students while out and both bought me a drink and we sat, ate, and chatted about life. I'm heading for an 8 mile hike with a couple friends on Saturday, and I think my GAL is doing great things for me.

Sunday I'm taking the kids out to my hometown for a local heritage celebration. I'm a bit concerned this may be a trigger for me, so it will be a test for myself. Since we were young (I'm talking 5 years old here), W and I would see each other at these celebrations. It's where we both developed crushes on each other when I was 12 and she was 13. I have vivid memories of those times talking and dancing with her, so I'll see how I feel when I go there. I hope to feel what I feel, and soak it in, but not be overwhelmed. I hope it just feels bittersweet, but I'll see.

I feel myself getting stronger every day, and my smile is back more often than not. I'm even listening to a song right now that we went and listened to at a concert many years ago, and I'm just singing along smiling. In contrast, W is really down right now. I could tell something had been wrong since we last talked about divorce paperwork on Monday, so I pushed a bit when I got home last night and she told me her best friend had found a new job (they work together, her entire social circle is at her work). They had been given joint-directorship of a new project for next school year, and W was very excited for this. Now she's just down in the dumps. I just continued to validate her feelings, and told her that I'm there if she needs to talk about it.

It's really strange to see her so down and me so up as we move towards divorce. She says she just can't wait until she can be happy. I'm doing nothing to hold her back at this point, and have made it clear that I have no expectations of her and I mean it. She says she is trying to "be respectful" towards me during this whole process, and I still think she and OM are not communicating. I don't know what she is waiting for, unless she is trying to save face at work and make it seem like they didn't start anything until we were officially divorced. No matter, I think I am starting to feel pretty lovingly detached at this point. I'm sure I'll fall soon, but I'm confident the ups are going to come much more than the downs in the future.

[MRay]

Mother's day went well. W made a picture book detailing D6's first year of life years ago, and she has it proudly displayed in the living room. She never got around to making one for S3, so I went ahead and made a matching one for him. I had S3 give it to her, and she was very appreciative. She placed it right next to the original one, and sincerely thanked me.

We have our second mediation meeting one week from today. We have most of the paperwork filled out, and really the only problem is going to be the house. W and I are getting along great living together, but when the house is brought up she gets very stressed. I think she's realized that I'm not going to roll over and just let her have it. NGS is a thing of the past.

So I have a question for some of you. W and I are very friendly when together. Probably too friendly, but when we physically separate I don't plan to contact her at all unless it's about the kids. Until recently she couldn't look at me, especially when I had my shirt off getting into the shower or working out or something. Now she has no problem looking at me and making positive comments. She has also started smiling at me (with that look in her eyes, you know the look I'm talking about) and making comments like, "I don't know how I'll ever find somebody else to put up with all my idiosyncrasies." W has made it very clear that the D is going through, and I haven't argued against it for awhile now. It's almost like she's trying to convince herself. Am I reading too much into this (probably)? Is this just a way to try to keep me on the hook? I don't react to these comments beyond something playful like, "Damn right, good luck with that!" I'm still having a great GAL, and I am having so much fun. Even at home. I even feel some emotional intimacy from my wife (only a bit, and I don't initiate or try to take it any deeper). The only thing missing is the deep emotional/physical intimacy.

[LoneWlf]

Remember- don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do. I keep repeating this to myself - but I too am in a state of confusion.

[joejoe1]

M,

Yoooooooo, you are doing well. Don't stop what you are doing. You Will know her feelings, when she is ready to tell you. She will come to you and show true remorse, that's when the tide has turned. You won't have no misunderstandings when that happen.

She is starting to see what she is losing. You won't her to not only see, but to also start to feel the loss of you. Seems to me she is having second thoughts, but at the moment they are only thoughts. Keep showing her the Mray only a fool would leave.

Keep up the great work.

[MRay]

Thanks joejoe. I'm having a down and stressful day today, and just a couple months ago I would have considered this an up day! Dinner is just about ready, and when W gets home I'm headed to play softball. Things are looking up!

Don't worry, I plan to just continue on with what I'm doing. Not because it may or may not be having an impact on W, but because it's the real, genuine me and I'm feeling happy. I don't think she's having second thoughts though, but I'm trying hard not to mind read. Hopefully she is, but I can't control that. I am definitely showing her a man that only a fool would leave. She's even said that in her own words. Time will reveal what happens, and I'm going to enjoy it as much as I can.

[MRay]

It's been awhile, so maybe time for an update. I'm doing great! GAL is amazing. We are still living together, and getting along like best friends. Honestly, I'm just not emotionally attracted to her anymore. Physically, oh yeah, but I've let her go. I deserve someone that wants to be with me. Maybe she'll change her mind and want to be with me again in the future. Maybe she won't. And I tell you, if she wants it, she better bring her freakin' A game and convince the hell out of me.

We took the kids out to dinner last night, and had a wonderful time. I plan to move into an apartment in the next couple weeks. I have plans to buy a house, just not sure if I want to go for the bigger, lifelong kind of house or a smaller, temporary home that I'd eventually rent out or sell.

To those reading this and struggling, just know that success is not measured by whether you save your marriage or not. I read similar things when I was first here, and didn't believe it. I felt like the people that wrote that just didn't understand. All I wanted was for my family to stay together and for my marriage to work. This was not long ago, but I've learned a lot the last few months. A marriage takes two people, while a divorce/separation only takes one. Well, living a great life only takes one as well. Get out there and live it! You can't control other people, especially your spouse. If you have children, just do your best for them. The happier you are, the happier they will be and the more you can do for them. That's all you can control. Just go out there and be the best you that you can be!