LBW, H in MLC and with OW - part 3

[meg24]

we go to a gun range in the Central Valley...

Then we’re in the same conservative area. I’m in the foothills just south of Yosemite.

as for you H being genuine... that could be the case... i think you are reluctant to accept it because it has to be more than that... he can't just "nice his way back in." this is where many LBSs miss the mark... they let their WW spouses back in without doing the hard work... if he is being genuine, he is likely hoping/assuming he could just sweep his affair under the rug... and you could let him do that... but you will be back here again, eventually... i feel for you, because i would not want to hold my H's feet to the fire if i were married to your H... it is going to take guts because he doesn't seem like he would be up for the task... but that is not fair of me to make that assumption... he needs to be given the opportunity... and it is something that needs to be addressed...

I won’t believe it’s genuine for quite a while. I know him well enough. Of course, I thought I knew him before, and look where we are.

If I recall your H knows you now know of his A, correct? So he has essentially left his W and family for an A? And you are okay with going on dates with him and allowing him to kiss you?

It was a quick kiss, happened so fast it was over before I knew what was going on.

I understand wanting to keep interactions positive, but that is not what I see happening here. I don't see how your H is a MNG (Mister Nice Guy) but Meg, I see you as the Nice Gal. You are letting him walk all over you and cake eat. You see once the Wayward gets caught cheating, they now have to work harder to keep their S as plan B. You are allowing that! Once he discovered you knew about his A, that was the time to drop the rope and go dark! Now he knows he can continue his behavior and you are right there waiting for him and any "crumbs" he will throw. He has no reason to end his A and change. (and FYI I made this same mistake for a shorty while when my H left by allowing family dinners and time at our house with the kids together)

I think you deserve better than this. It makes me sad for you. As I keep saying again and again, we teach others how to treat us. You are letting your H know that he can lie, cheat, and abandon his family, and still go on dates with you, flirt, kiss, etc. I'm surprised the other posters are not saying anything. If you were a male poster, and your W the wayward, we would be jumping all over him and telling you that you were being a doormat to grow a pair. I'm struggling to see the difference here, other than gender.

I genuinely feel sorry for you Meg. I think you deserve better than "bread crumbs." I personally just see it all as more manipulation and him keeping you as plan B. And you are happy to dress up for the occasion and take it.

Sorry for the 2*4. But if we can't be honest, I just don't see how we can help one another here. If I were in your shoes (and I was) I would not let me H have any cake (not a crumb) until he ended his A, showed me proof, and showed complete remorse. That's what I believe I deserve. And when I DID get to that point, I saw the changes in his behavior. When my H realized he was going to actually lose me, that is when he realized he needed to change.

These aren't bread crumbs but cake crumbs.

Not even a slice left for you.

He moved his whole cake and wants to eat all yours too.

You are super rewarding him for cheating. It's called triangulation (otherwise known as the pick me game), as long you are playing he will keep cheating. And kissy face tells him all he needsaid to know. You very much remind me of another poster here called Pink, I will see if I can provide a link.

By being pretty, sweet, smiling, sexy lips, the best you can be for him, then he wins and nothing has to change.

You are all ABSOLUTELY right! Thank you Blu and Vanilla for the 2x4’s. Sometimes I just need to hear someone else say what is in the back of my mind before I’ll believe it.

H says to me every now and that I don't deserve what all this and he feels horrible for he's putting me and the kids through. Those are just words. When he says that I don't listen. If he meant it his actions would show it as well.

[meg24]

So I sent H a text this morning. Told him that I need to set boundaries, no more sex while he's seeing OW, that I have to value myself, and for my health can't do it. He read it as giving him ultimatum, he feel's like he just lost me, he's not choosing one or the other right now. He said he understands and respects my feelings, as well as me speaking out. He said I've always turned him on and he's always told me how attracted to me he is and it's hard not to want me when he's around.

I am so ready to just throw in the towel, let him have whatever he wants.

You all warned me, in so many ways.

[SteveLW]

Sorry meg, I have trouble with those emotions myself. Even though my W seems to be wanting to work now.

[Vanilla]

Great news for you Meg.

Of course WH doesn't like you saying 'no' to the pick me game. He doesn't get his cake with the soft cream filling and raspberry jam as he likes it.

His cake supply is now halved.

Oh and of course it's your fault you took away the cake.

His strategy

1. Don't take away my cake, pretty please. I need cake and you have no right to do so. I will die without a double helping.
2. I will sulk now you have taken away cake and I will cease to play any more. I might not talk to you until you restore cake.
3. I am very angry you have taken away the cake and I am plotting every revenge I can think of. Removing cake is unacceptable and you will be dawned in hell for it.
4. Your cake is better than any other cake in existence don't you know I love YOUR cake better than any other cake.
5. I am entitled to cake.

It's a big step Meg, and I am cheering from the bakery.

V

[BluWave]

Good for you, Meg! Be strong. Set boundaries. I know it's hard to do with a broken heart, and when feeling down and vulnerable, but it can be done! That is why the GAL is so, so crucial right now. As you care for yourself and nurture yourself first (and before your R with him) you can slowly build your confidence back.

And while you don't do this to win him back, as it's done, he will naturally be more drawn to you. Right now, if he knows he can have you (while cheating on you) the natural consequence is he loses some respect for you. IF he sees that you are taking care of you, getting stronger, and moving on without him, well that will give him the most pause. It is okay for them to think they are losing you.

I see a lot of hope in your sitch. I really do. That is why I am posting and coming down hard on you. Your H still seems to want to be with you and is very attracted to you. Often when the wayward goes off, they do a complete 180, and they will even rewrite history and become nasty to the LBS.

Here is the hardest thing in this. These sitches can take a very, very long time to unfold. There is no magic wand, even if we follow the rules and DB perfectly. For example, the timeline on my sitch was 1.5 years (before he came back) and we just hit 3 years of piecing. We are still a work in progress.

The reason I come here and post is because as I see it, this is the only thing you can do when your S leaves you. Crying, begging and bargaining does not bring them back. Lashing out, threatening, and running to file D doesn't bring them back. Also, competing with the A, nicing your way back, or trying hard to win them over and show them you have changed doesn't work either.

The reason DBing does work it because you learn to control the only thing you can control and that is you. You learn to pick yourself up (because let's face it, they have kicked us down) and you start to work on being that person you have always wanted to be. You start to do all the things that you have wanted to do again and you only do them for one reason. You know you are worth it, and no one else will do them for you! You also practice extreme self care (therapy, long walks, meditation, yoga, or whatever you need), and you start to slowly over time feel better. As you feel better, your confidence grows and you realize you don't really need them. We don't actually need anyone. And you especially don't need anyone that could treat you so cruel as he has. You know you deserve better.

This not only helps you grow and change, but it helps in all your relationships around you. It becomes a way of life. This was the silver lining in my sitch. I know now don't actually need him, or any man, to be okay. I like myself more now than I did before BD. I want to be with him (most of the time), which is very different than needing him. So you start be reading Cadet's HW again with a new set of lenses, a fresh perspective. And then you follow the rules. You will make mistakes, and then you shake it off, and each day the clock starts over.

So right now, H takes a back seat. Keep him there no matter how many crumbs he throws! Don't let him manipulate you or keep you as plan B anymore. Don't worry about him going anywhere, he has already left. YOU CONTINUE ON THE PATH OF TEAM MEG. This takes time, he has really hurt you and betrayed you.

Here is the secondary gain; if you can follow the rules, DB, GAL like crazy, and learn to 180, over time, your H will see and like the new and improved you. YOU DO THIS WITH CONSISTENT ACTIODS OVER TIME, NOT BY TELLING HIM. Ignore those texts, his pouting, and you give him no attention. You can be polite and civil, but you go away and go dark. Be a little mysterious and do not be available to him.

Don't worry about him getting mad. Good, let him see he does't control you. You are too busy being fabulous. While this is happening, he also begins to realize that he is the fool that let you go! He will undoubtedly start second guessing himself. Over time, his limerance with OW will most likely wear off. This process doesn't feel natural, but it's the only way IMO.

Does that make sense? Can you go dark (only communicate about kids/finances/emergencies) and drop the rope?

Blu

[meg24]

Vanilla and Blu, I love your words. Thank you. All day long I have felt completely and utterly broken down. My best friend, who is 8 hours away, has been texting me nonstop, to help me through.

But I'm in a better place now, the place I was in before Easter, the weekend he asked if I wanted D or to work through this. Let me explain.

Tiny back story first- Sunday when H was here he went on to Amazon to look at something. His phone wasn't letting him view anything, so I said maybe he needs to update. As he did so, he was prompted to sign in, so I gave him the sign in info. It then took him to sign in to my Google (same sign in info, bad, I know). That seemed strange that it would take him to Google for Amazon. So I told him back out. Then we went on to the next task. Today I remembered that it did that, and changed my Google password.

So tonight, I went to Papa Murphy's for pizza after work as my step-daughter (who calls me Mom) was coming for dinner and I was in no mood to cook. As I was walking back to my car, I got an alert on my phone that someone was trying to sign in to my Google. I mostly figured it was D13 (she used my google account on her phone, to update apps), but wasn't sure. So I denied the sign-in attempt. Then I went to check my email. About once a week I check my spam folder (there's usually only 5-8 spam messages there), and there were 56 spam message, all from the last 3 days (back to when we had the messed up sign in on H's phone). I didn't open any of the messages, but they were ALL porn and sex hook-up related. H likes porn, I've always known this. I hate it. He knows that. But I realized, he's still in that dark place. And I'm pretty positive he's not just seeing OW, he's probably out looking for quick sex. It would explain ALL the other texts and pictures back and forth I saw on the phone bill, to numbers I don't recognize (I know most of his friend's numbers). H is an extreme porn addict. He's stuck in his addiction right now. It has nothing to do with me.

H said in his reply to me this morning that we would talk later, he needed to go to bed (working 12 hour night shifts right now). Usually when he says that, he gets back to me when he says he will, even during all this crappy stuff. But I haven't heard from him at all.

When step-D came up, she mentioned to me in private (she's not his bio daughter either, she is actually my step-s24's half sister, they share a mom, H is step-s24's dad, but he also calls me mom, I raised him and his sister as my own). She mentioned she was pissed at H, as he's doing to the kids what her bio dad did to her, and H used to say that step-d's bio dad was not a real man for that. I told her she needs to tell him how she feels, when she's ready. She's getting ready.

So I will be ok. GAL, detach (again), 180. H will figure out that the path he is on is empty.

[Vanilla]

I talked about cake now another C word cheese.

MWD is very keen on cheese metaphors and analogies. She likens cheese to nourishment and cheaters as looking for nourishment. They are like rats running up and down cheeseless tunnels.

Don't confuse cheese and cake.

Cake is what we want as a pleasure, it's sweet tasty and full of yummies, Cake is to be enjoyed in plentiful helpings unlike shite sandwiches that the LBS gets delivered with the milk every morning. That's on special order.

All cheaters adore cake especially double helpings, they keep you baking forever.

Cheese is nourishment unlike cake which is good but fattening and rots teeth.

Cheese is the absolute food of mice and rats, trouble is cheese is provided to oneself, it's the nourishment of the soul and can only be provided by ones own efforts. No one can give you cheese, not even the blue veined smelly sort like Gorgonezola. It has to be earned and it isn't found in tunnels (that's a Freudian thing in case no one has guessed yet). It certainly isn't found in artificial online tunnels, where you pay for the privilege of fictional tunnels which you can't even touch (let alone find cheese in).

My theory is that these cheaters are really holograms themselves looking for cheese in tunnels (cake is a temporary substitute) and they can't find the cheese because they don't have the circuitry. Cheese can only be found by real people going to real shops and paying with real cash that has been really earned. That is by being a decent human being who gives a damn about others.

Some rats are happy to live on cake, they can't be bothered with tunnels. Sadly I think you landed a rat that likes searching for cheese whilst eating cake.

My thoughts are he hasn't the capacity to figure that the path he is on is really a cheeseless tunnel.

V

[KitCat]

Meg - I think you are doing quite well despite how heavy a burden your heart is carrying.

I'm glad you've clearly established your boundaries - now make sure you follow through. Do not answer every text, email, phone call. Don't make yourself so available.

I agree with others that your situation isn't going to resolve quickly but I see that all hope is not lost between you and your H. Who knows... when Meg sees who Meg can really be it may be your H begging and pleading for your attention because Meg is complete being Meg.

I will continue to IMPLORE you - and I will do this ENDLESSLY. Stop getting your children in the middle... EVEN YOUR ADULT CHILDREN.

Remember when all is said and done what ever happens bio dad or not this is who your SD sees as her dad... and you are her mom in her eyes. Do not do anything to jeopardize those relationships. Of course your SD is entitled to her opinion. And you can simply state you appreciate her support and understanding that this is a difficult time but no matter what he is always her dad.

Take the high road. Do ever be in a position where your SD may say to anyone that you told her she should tell her dad... of course that would be taken out of context but there it is.

This is the reason that the book states to do not enlist the help of friends or family. Do not be a catalyst that may trigger a fallout between a dad and daughter. You do not want to be that person.

Yes... I know she came to you and told you her thoughts of her own accord... WHAT AN EGO BOOST for you. But make no suggestions to her that she should take that thought to her father. If she ever does it should be because she genuinely wanted to and then she would never say... I was talking to Meg and she told me to tell you this. Can you see how this could be played out?

Your children - minor or adult should only know that they are loved and supported by both parents. Maybe in your book or the book of most parents your H isn't top notch... but he is still their dad. AND, if he took in a child that wasn't his bio one and loved her the same as the others I think that speaks that he does somewhere have a good side.

And, while I don't want to down play any possible porn addiction because that is a real thing... a lot of men watch porn. My husband does... it never bothers me... when he is bored he tends to watch it more. Maybe your husband is truly addicted... but maybe he is just bored and lonely looking for an ego boost? However, maybe its time he get his own google account so you aren't bombarded or left to snoop on his behavior. Its easy enough to get a google account.

Take one day at a time. :-)

[meg24]

I will continue to IMPLORE you - and I will do this ENDLESSLY. Stop getting your children in the middle... EVEN YOUR ADULT CHILDREN.

Remember when all is said and done what ever happens bio dad or not this is who your SD sees as her dad... and you are her mom in her eyes. Do not do anything to jeopardize those relationships. Of course your SD is entitled to her opinion. And you can simply state you appreciate her support and understanding that this is a difficult time but no matter what he is always her dad.

This is the reason that the book states to do not enlist the help of friends or family. Do not be a catalyst that may trigger a fallout between a dad and daughter. You do not want to be that person.

Yes... I know she came to you and told you her thoughts of her own accord... WHAT AN EGO BOOST for you. But make no suggestions to her that she should take that thought to her father. If she ever does it should be because she genuinely wanted to and then she would never say... I was talking to Meg and she told me to tell you this. Can you see how this could be played out?

Your children - minor or adult should only know that they are loved and supported by both parents. Maybe in your book or the book of most parents your H isn't top notch... but he is still their dad. AND, if he took in a child that wasn't his bio one and loved her the same as the others I think that speaks that he does somewhere have a good side.

I agree with you KitCat. SD came to me, told me she wanted to tell him how she felt, I said she should, good, bad, whatever. I have also told all my children to tell me how they feel about anything I do or say. I have told all of them they have their own relationships with H, that they need to cultivate on their end. She did talk to H last night, he texted me this morning. She told him (his words) that everyone feels he is sh*#@y father.

And, while I don't want to down play any possible porn addiction because that is a real thing... a lot of men watch porn. My husband does... it never bothers me... when he is bored he tends to watch it more. Maybe your husband is truly addicted... but maybe he is just bored and lonely looking for an ego boost? However, maybe its time he get his own google account so you aren't bombarded or left to snoop on his behavior. Its easy enough to get a google account.

H doesn’t just look at porn, he looks at it night and day. He always has, even during our best times together, our happiest times together. It’s not just an ego boost for him. H has an addictive personality, I’ve seen it many times.

As for his text this morning, I can imagine that he feels like everyone is against him. He said to me that we can all figure stuff out for ourselves. He is mad at me, for setting boundaries. I told him again that I think he should apologize to the kids for what he said to them few weeks ago. That he is the father and needs to reach out to them. He just doesn’t like to hear that. For weeks I have been telling the kids to reach out to him, let him know he is loved. I validated his feelings this morning. Right now he doesn’t want to hear it. He wants everything to be easy. So I detach. That’s where I’m at.

[meg24]

Oh, to clarify, H does have his own google account. When we tried to log him into Amazon, it was actual on the google login page (my google login is the same as Amazon login). That's where the mixup happened. I have since changed my google password so he can't log in under it. I don't want to get that spam mail of crap.